Trying real hard not be be mad at a local auto repair guy

[Matt Meiser]

Our local (i.e right around the corner) auto repair has been pretty good to us for an occasional repair and does all my parents maintenance. I picked up another (used) set of wheels for my truck because the originals were pretty corroded and took it over to them to swap tires onto the new wheels. About 2 weeks later I got a low tire pressure light and found one wheel about 6psi low. Refilled, and the next day it had lost about 3 so I took it in. They said they found a little leakage at the rim and cleaned it up. 5 days later, low tire pressure light again so I stopped by and they found 2 collated nails which had been in there long enough to wear the heads off--no idea how long that takes. I gave them the benefit of the doubt that it was a coincidence. He had to do a "boot" repair since the nails were right next to each other. Today I went to drive on the expressway and now it appears they didn't balance after the repair, pretty much confirmed by rotating the two tires on that side front/back. Grr....

[Phil Thien]

Any chance they've recently added a new guy?

[Mike Lassiter]

Typically when tires are removed to patch them inside they aren't balanced afterwards. The patch wouldn't add enough weight to make a difference.
It is common to "plug" tires but some must be broken down and patched from inside. My 10 ply tires on F250 as example. Also repairing these correctly calls for plugging the hole. The plug is to seal the puncture and prevent the steel plys from rusting from water or salt water getting into the puncture. The patch inside seals the leak and pressure inside pushes it against the inside making it hard to fail unless not installed right.
Two punctures close together could be covered by one patch, even a larger patch. (Possibly what they called a boot). I have heard of a boot being used in tractor tires if they had a large damaged area, but they are usually lower pressure that auto or truck tires and low speed. I personally would NOT want such a repair on a tire that I would be running at highway speed on anything.
I would suggest a new tire. If they "booted" your tire it was compromised enough to replace it. Without seeing before repair it is hard to say. But as I said, patched tires I have never saw rebalanced. Tire is marked where valve stem was on sidewall, remove, repair and reinstall and position mark back at valve stem. A patch wouldn't add enough weight to make a noticeable difference in vibration from being out of balance.

[Matt Meiser]

Not sure Phil--the shop manager is really the only one I've ever talked to there. Even the owner is out back working. This is a place that has been owned by the same family since the 40's and has grown to something like 8 service bays (we keep teasing my dad that the addition build a couple years back is named after him--they had a bad couple years for repairs.) Mostly just venting--oviously I need to call them in the morning and talk to them. Unfortunately I already had made an appointment for tomorrow to get it detailed and its supposed to be there when the detailer opens so I can't really cancel without messing them up and won't get it back until late afternoon.

I'm wondering if maybe he messed up and put it back on the wheel in a different position. There's no marks on the tire, but it was pouring down rain by the time we left there the other day so it could have washed off.

[George Bokros]

From my perspective I agree a plug would not require re-balancing but after an inside patch or boot the balance should at least be checked. The inside patch or boot is large enough that it will affect balance.

Out of curiosity Matt did you have them use stick on weights? The weights cause the corrosion you had on the original wheels. I experienced that with a 93 Ford Ranger I had. On my last two trucks with aluminum wheels I had them rebalanced with stick on weights on the back side, these would be the ones that would have been attached to the outside wheel lip. They use regular clip on weights for the back side. They place them as far forward as possible. The truck before this one I had 60K miles and never lost a weight, this truck I have 23K miles with no loss of balance. It is the only way I would go with nice aluminum wheels.

George

[Matt Meiser]

I'm not sure what they used but none are visible on the outside. These are actually "chrome clad" wheels which are essentially an aluminum wheel with a permanently attached plastic hub cap. I guess most modern "chrome" OEM wheels are made this way which hides the corrosion issues aluminum wheels have in areas where salt is used--which is what was "wrong" with my original wheels.

He explained that they normally can do a nail repair entirely from the outside but they had to dismount the tire. The way he explained I pictured a patch with something sticking out that went through the hole and I can see a small nub sticking out at the repair but who knows. Normally I would implicitly trust these guys but I'll be asking a few more questions today. Probably just one of those everything-that-can-go-wrong-will situations.

[George Bokros]

Matt, if your wheels are the chrome clad ones the wheel itself may be steel. That is what Ford did on the Rangers that had chrome wheels. I saw them when I bought my 2008 and my son's 2009 had them. In most cases, and I saw this on GM's too, the wheels are balanced with the chrome skins on them and the weights are attached on top of the chrome skins.

George

[Chuck Wintle]

Not sure Phil--the shop manager is really the only one I've ever talked to there. Even the owner is out back working. This is a place that has been owned by the same family since the 40's and has grown to something like 8 service bays (we keep teasing my dad that the addition build a couple years back is named after him--they had a bad couple years for repairs.) Mostly just venting--oviously I need to call them in the morning and talk to them. Unfortunately I already had made an appointment for tomorrow to get it detailed and its supposed to be there when the detailer opens so I can't really cancel without messing them up and won't get it back until late afternoon.

I'm wondering if maybe he messed up and put it back on the wheel in a different position. There's no marks on the tire, but it was pouring down rain by the time we left there the other day so it could have washed off.

It does sound like they have someone new working there who is not being as careful as they should be.

[Matt Meiser]

These are definitely aluminum.

[Mike Lassiter]

He explained that they normally can do a nail repair entirely from the outside but they had to dismount the tire. The way he explained I pictured a patch with something sticking out that went through the hole and I can see a small nub sticking out at the repair but who knows. Normally I would implicitly trust these guys but I'll be asking a few more questions today. Probably just one of those everything-that-can-go-wrong-will situations.

"Normally" a rubber or rope type material is used for a outside repair or plug. The rope type material is required if steel belted tire plys as the steel plys will cut the rubber plug into over time. Poke a probe (pointed tool with "teeth" on it to removed foreign object and roughen up the hole for the plug, then push the rope plug into the hole (but not all the way through) then pull the tool back out quickly which will jerk the tool off the rope leaving a knot like inside the tire that prevents the plug from being blown out by air pressure, then cut the protruding ends off flush to the tread. Rope is very sticky, no glue needed to install. I have a kit that I use to keep under the seat of my F150. This is not proper repair on heavier weight rated tires (like 10 ply 3/4 ton truck tires). Quick, and easy and works on cars and light trucks most of the time. Tire is not even removed from the vehicle most of the time. Just has to have air in tire so you can push the plug in and air it back to spec. after trimming it.
287206

Patch and plug combination requires tire to be broken down off rim at least on one side to get into tire and buff the liner and apply glue and pull plug/patch through the hole and work patch area with tool to press patch to inside of the tire. The plug part prevents moisture from getting into the tread area and rusting the steel ply(s) which would cause the tire to fail in time. HD trucks typically use a plug pulled through from the inside to seal the hole, and the patch is a separate item installed by centering it over the plug. The protruding plug is cut flush to the tread just as with the rope plug. The plugs purpose here is NOT seal the air leak but to seal the punctured hole. The patch part (flat part like the head of a nail) is the leak repair.
287207This is the done right for life repair IF it is done correctly when it is done. The rope plug CAN BE a lifetime repair, but it depends on how big the punctured hole is and where on the tire it is. Sidewalls are not pluggable, and typically not patchable. Semi tires can be sent to recap center and have a repair vulcanized in the sidewall and make a permanent repair. Would assume passenger tires also if you sent it to be repaired, but that is not the typical situation - not many people have extra tires for their personal vehicles to wait for one to come back from repair center.
While I don't think the weight of the plug/patch is enough to affect the balance, the tire would have to be removed to do this repair. If the tire was balanced before, and the tech didn't put it back on like it was removed. it is very possible by random luck he installed the heavy side of the tire back to the heavy side of the rim and created a out of balance that could be several ozs out of balance.
If you take it back, I would ask to have it broken back down and see inside the tire. This will allow you and them to see that the repair is in fact done right, and just the tire wasn't positioned correctly back on the rim. I really think you should request this for your own piece of mind. This is going to be nagging you every time you drive it if you don't. It can be a training exercise for whoever did the work, so he can become better, or more focused going forward.

I would like to add something here, unrelated to the tire being out of balance (hopefully). Being a mechanic is a pretty thankless job were NO mistakes are allowed. A mechanic can do thousands of things right and nobody every says great job! And, frankly that IS the job - to do them correctly. But do ONE thing wrong and see how that goes. Some seek to always do their best and others struggle to do what is required. If you forget to file a paper, or call a vendor or whatever in the office it maybe a problem, but not likely someone could die because of it. If you make a mistake working on tires, brakes etc. in auto repair you can cause a wreck, you can literally kill one or more people. It is a very unforgiving trade is that regard. Competent people are necessary and this touches on another message thread some that mechanic jobs aren't the "in" thing these days. It's dirty, it's hot or cold - you aren't in a conditioned environment like working at the office. Today's mechanic needs to understand all the same basic things we did 40 years ago, PLUS they need to almost be a electrical engineer to troubleshoot the computerized systems on all vehicles now. I submit, when you go back and the issue is found that caused this - the tech that did it is likely going to be as upset as you because most really seek to do the job right - just like they would if it was theirs.

[Matt Meiser]

Well, looks like it was probably mechanic error. I stopped by the regional chain that sells the tires that are on the truck and had them check. It was badly out of balance--he thinks the guy put it back in a different position. The balanced, same weight but in a different position, and it was fine after. As to the repair he said its probably a fine repair as far as holding up and holding air, but that it may shorten the tire life due to moisture like Mike said. He said he could go either way if it was his vehicle. If they'd had the tire in stock--they didn't have the right load rating on hand--I would have had them switch it out but I think I'll plan for that in the near future.

I have to call the local shop to cancel an appointment to take it there in the AM and plan to let him know. Probably just one of those situations where the guy was upset he had a repair come back because he missed something and that caused further errors.

[Mike Lassiter]

based on what you said earlier about seeing where it was repaired in the tread, I bet the proper repair was done. You shouldn't be concerned about it failing later. Glad it was simple, even though maybe aggravating and inconvenient. You never know if the tech got interrupted in the middle of it and forgot to mark the tire sidewall, or what happened. I worked with a guy years ago that installed front disk brake pads on a car and came back from the test drive saying they were making a horrible noise when he stopped. Pulled the front wheels back off to find he had installed the inner pad backwards and had the metal side against the rotor! I watched the owner at one place I worked have to chase down a customer that just had their oil changed because there was a trail of oil going out the bay from the drain plug getting put back in the oil pan, but forgetting to tighten it. Had to drive several miles to get him to come back to look at it. Added 2 qts oil after less than 10 miles driving. Things happen that most never know about.