Stanley #78 Nickers.

[Don Rogers]

Spent a lot of time today trying to get organized - putting some tools in more easily reached locations and generally trying to make things more convenient. When I got to my 78, remembered that the nickers looked as though they had never been sharpened.


Took the nicker blade off All 3 projections are much too thick to slice wood (having never been sharpened) and this brought up my question:


Did the vintage 78s come new with unsharpened nickers.? If not, maybe mine has never been used.


I sharpened one of the three nickers but did not have enough time to set it up completely and try it. I did , however ,run it along a piece of wood and the sharpened nicker cut a nice defining line in the wood.


It’s just one of those things I never got around to doing and really forgot about. It should perform better now and make a good partnership with my new LV Small Plow Plane.


Guess I just have too many tools - or at least more than I can use.


Don

[lowell holmes]

My 78 knickers are not sharpened. I don't use the plane, not having much regard for it.

The LV skew Rabbets are the way to go. I have both of them. I may add the LV small plow to the collection.

[steven c newman]

I have a Wards clone of the Stanley #78. Nicker came sharpened, but had to hone it a bit. It sits just a hair below the sole, which is fine. Been using the little guy a lot lately. Even had to sharpen the iron twice. Works better than my corded router, too.

Skewed iron might be ok, but a proper grip on the 78 works just fine for me. Have even used it on some of my larger tenons as a clean up. I take the depth stop off, lay the plane on it's side, and have a nice way to use it on shoulders. YMMV

[George Vincent]

I love my Stanley #78 which I bought used and the knickers are sharpened. I periodically hone them on a 6000 or 13000 waterstone as needed.

[Don Rogers]

It appears as though the nickers came unsharpened on a new (old) 78 or were replaced when worn with new unsharpened nickers. Still can’t tell if mine has been used very little or had the nickers replaced. From it’s condition, my guess is that it has seen little use.


Glad to hear the 78 is useful to the last two posters. I’ll keep trying to learn how to use mine rather than spend money on the LV skewed rabbet plane. I’m sure the LV pair is better - judging from the quality of my LV plow - but maybe they also have a learning curve - in which case I may be better off learning to use the 78 before considering the LV.
Maybe the LV pair later!!!

Don

[steven c newman]

Went down to the Dungeon Shop, and gave the Wards a workout287192some edge grain rebates287193and the end grain as well. As for the nicker?287194 yep. I had to move the depth stop up out of the way for the photo. For cross grain work, one drags the plane backwards, to allow the nicker to define the line. After a couple in reverse, then push forward. Take as deep a cut as you can push the plane along. Doesn't take all that long to do. I did plane a bit on the surface, afterwards, to test drive another Wards plane287195 Also by Stanley, from the WWII era. A #3 sized smoother. Seems to do OK on this test drive. That adjuster wheel is a hard rubber one.

[Don Rogers]

I also have a 78 clone and it’s blade is stamped “Craftsman”. In appearance, it is almost identical to the Stanley. I have not really tried it yet.


After sharpening the nicker and blade on the Stanley, I found that it really cuts well and leaves a shiny smooth surface.


That said, it will not cut a full depth rebate on a 12” long board. The rebate is deeper at the end of the cut and shallow at the beginning. It just stops cutting. Checking depth, blade, and fence settings, - they have not changed and I am at a loss to find the cause. The nicker is sharp,is the blade has been resharpened several times ( tried 25 to 35 deg.), and the blade edge is lined up with the plane edge. Despite all that, it insists on cutting a tapered bottom rebate. My depth setting is only 1/4” but I never reach that. The blade is cutting about 1/32” deep or less.


It could be my technique but I’m trying to use it correctly. I push the fence against the side of the board with my left hand to keep the plane square and I push the plane handle straight forward with my right hand to make the cut. I also begin the cut at the boards far end and slowly work backwards with each cut. It cuts well - and then stops cutting - leaving a tapered bottom rabbet/


Any ideas what I am doing incorrectly?


Steven, good tip to initially drag the plane backwards to let the nicker make it’s cut without the blade coming into action.


Don

[steven c newman]

I usually have to keep cutting back near the end I'm on. The reason is, you have to START the plane at the far end of the cut, and work your way backwards. So, the area you start at first will be a bit deeper, until the rest catches up.

Sometimes the Depth stop gets a bit slanted. It might tilt a bit, makeing the trailing edge lower. There is supposed to a groove to guide the depth stop up and down. Sometimes these get a bit worn, and allow the tilt to happen.

When you are almost done, bring the plane all the way back, so the just the toe is on the board, then push the plane through. You may find it still cuts through the "Start" end nearest you.

[Don Rogers]

I usually have to keep cutting back near the end I'm on. The reason is, you have to START the plane at the far end of the cut, and work your way backwards. So, the area you start at first will be a bit deeper, until the rest catches up.

Thought I was doing that but will try again.

Sometimes the Depth stop gets a bit slanted. It might tilt a bit, makeing the trailing edge lower. There is supposed to a groove to guide the depth stop up and down. Sometimes these get a bit worn, and allow the tilt to happen.

I know this is not happening. In fact the plane stops cutting before the depth stop is reached. Again, I will check this out also.

When you are almost done, bring the plane all the way back, so the just the toe is on the board, then push the plane through. You may find it still cuts through the "Start" end nearest you.

I'll work on doing this later today.

Thanks for your suggestions.

Don

[Don Rogers]

Tried it again and ended up with a tapered bottom rabbet. Again the plane just stopped cutting.


Then got out the Craftsman 78 clone, sharpened the blade, set it’s nickers to cut, and set up the fence and depth stop approx. the same as the Stanley. Tried it on the other side of the same board. Same result - a tapered bottom rabbet and it stopped cutting.


Tried deepening the rabbet with the LV Shoulder plane - it worked fine and kept cutting.


Checked the knicker and blade alignment on both 78s but could see no problem. Then got the idea to take the nickers out of action on both planes.


After doing that, both planes cut well in the same rabbets they earlier refused to cut deeper. Concluded that nickers are either not set or sharpened properly - or they should not be used when planing with the grain.


Have not tried making rabbets in cross grain but do remember hearing that they are needed there mores than in long grain.


I am very much puzzled why the planes (with the nickers set out) cut tapered bottom rabbets and then stopped cutting.? Yet removing the nickers permitted them to continue cutting?


Learned something and also got my upper body exercise today.


Don

[steven c newman]

The question I have in all of this is the grip on the front of the plane. My thumb gets sore, from riding in the hollow area ahead of the bullnose plane area. The fingers wrap around to the fence. In the photos I posted a while back, yes, I do leave the nicker in place. When doing all four edges of a raised panel, easier to just leave it alone. 287350nickers worked across the grain, and with the grain. Unlike a regular hand plane, there is no need to press down with the left hand, just keep the plane vertical and the fence riding the edge. Not sure why you have a tapered rebate. On this one, I did have to work my way back towards me. But it never stopped cutting. Only thing I could think of, was that the cap iron may have been sticking out a bit? when I do these cuts, I start the first pass or two set fine. After the cut gets going, I lower the iron as deep as I can push the plane along. This is one plane where see-through shavings won't do.

Yep, nickers are suppose to be for across the grain.....

[Pedro Reyes]

Tried it again and ended up with a tapered bottom rabbet. Again the plane just stopped cutting.


Then got out the Craftsman 78 clone, sharpened the blade, set it’s nickers to cut, and set up the fence and depth stop approx. the same as the Stanley. Tried it on the other side of the same board. Same result - a tapered bottom rabbet and it stopped cutting.


Tried deepening the rabbet with the LV Shoulder plane - it worked fine and kept cutting.


Checked the knicker and blade alignment on both 78s but could see no problem. Then got the idea to take the nickers out of action on both planes.


After doing that, both planes cut well in the same rabbets they earlier refused to cut deeper. Concluded that nickers are either not set or sharpened properly - or they should not be used when planing with the grain.


Have not tried making rabbets in cross grain but do remember hearing that they are needed there mores than in long grain.


I am very much puzzled why the planes (with the nickers set out) cut tapered bottom rabbets and then stopped cutting.? Yet removing the nickers permitted them to continue cutting?


Learned something and also got my upper body exercise today.


Don

I was told (or read or taught) that "with the grain" rabbets should not have a nicker, that often the nicker catches in the grain and pushes the plane outward. It was best to simply hold the plane tight against the fence and plow away, it was however critical to make sure the blade is ever so slightly proud of the plane's body on the inside (rabbet wall). I have planed stepped rabbets and the culprit was either bad technique or a blade that was not proud of the plane's body (or both).

Not sure why it stopped cutting but it may be that you were riding on one of the small steps created by the "tapered" rabbets.

on the ends (cross grain) nickers are essential for a clean defined rabbet.

Pedro

[Don Rogers]

The question I have in all of this is the grip on the front of the plane. My thumb gets sore, from riding in the hollow area ahead of the bullnose plane area. The fingers wrap around to the fence.

My grip is slightly different from yours and tomorrow I will try it with the thumb in the hollow area ahead of the bullnose end.
In the photos I posted a while back, yes, I do leave the nicker in place. When doing all four edges of a raised panel, easier to just leave it alone. 287350nickers worked across the grain, and with the grain. Unlike a regular hand plane, there is no need to press down with the left hand, just keep the plane vertical and the fence riding the edge.

I was pressing down with my left hand and will try it without doing that.

Not sure why you have a tapered rebate. On this one, I did have to work my way back towards me. But it never stopped cutting. Only thing I could think of, was that the cap iron may have been sticking out a bit?

Another thing to check tomorrow. I do not believe the cap iron is sticking out, however.

when I do these cuts, I start the first pass or two set fine. After the cut gets going, I lower the iron as deep as I can push the plane along. This is one plane where see-through shavings won't do.

OK, but my 78's blade is difficult to set and I did have it set for relatively fine cuts. My blade is a "Union" in this Stanley and seems to be slightly wider than the plane. I'm not sure it fits this plane properly. Ordered a replacement "Stanley" blade for it today. Would have rather had a Hock or Veritas blade but they are not available. Will reset it deeper tomorrow to see if that helps.

Yep, nickers are suppose to be for across the grain.....

Again, I like your tip about nicking first with the plane dragged backwards. Will try your suggestions tomorrow and report back.

Thanks, Don

[Don Rogers]

I was told (or read or taught) that "with the grain" rabbets should not have a nicker, that often the nicker catches in the grain and pushes the plane outward. It was best to simply hold the plane tight against the fence and plow away, it was however critical to make sure the blade is ever so slightly proud of the plane's body on the inside (rabbet wall). I have planed stepped rabbets and the culprit was either bad technique or a blade that was not proud of the plane's body (or both).

OK, good points. I'm sure my technique is causing some of my problems, and I will try improving on that along with no nicker with the grain, pushing the plane tight against the fence, and insuring that the blade is slightly proud of the rabbet side of the plane body.

Not sure why it stopped cutting but it may be that you were riding on one of the small steps created by the "tapered" rabbets.

Thats a good point also. I did notice a small step near the starting end of the rabbet.

on the ends (cross grain) nickers are essential for a clean defined rabbet.

Sounds logical to me. I have alot to learn about using the 78.

Pedro

Thanks for your help,

Don

[Jim Koepke]

The question I have in all of this is the grip on the front of the plane. My thumb gets sore, from riding in the hollow area ahead of the bullnose plane area.

I have often give thought to making a front in fill piece to fit in the bullnose area.

Pedro mentioned some important points about the nickers catching in the grain and about the blade being slightly proud out the side.

I also work the sides of the blade on a stone. There should be a good edge up the side of the blade. It should be just a few degrees of bevel. It doesn't need to be sharp like a cutting edge but it shouldn't be rounded or ragged.

jtk

[steven c newman]

The way mine is set up, the iron and cap iron are flush with the side of the plane.

As for the nicker, They are shaped like a cresent. Not sure what size camber that is, but it is VERY tiny radius. Beveled side goes in, the flat side goes out. And make sure it is flush with the side of the plane, as well. You want just a hair of an edge below the sole of the plane. I THINK mine is about a 1/16'' or less below the sole. Last time I sharpened the little bugger, I just flatteneed the backside, of the whole nicker. Might check the bolt that holds the nicker, Might get a burr there...

Nicker, or Knicker......always thought that "Knicker" was something you wore. YMMV

[Lonnie Gallaher]

This is in response to the nicker being sharpened or not. I have a sweetheart #78. The plane came to me in very good condition with just a little staining on the machined parts. The nicker was in the "stored" position. I removed it last night. The nicker has a factory grind on one of the blade projections while the other two are full thickness without any grind. The nicker is obviously unused as there are no wear marks or shiny indications of ever being used. The "factory grind" is nicely cambered with the radius of the nicker projection.

So my thought would be that the nicker, at least during the sweetheart period, came with a bevel grind on one of the blade projections.

[Jim Koepke]

So my thought would be that the nicker, at least during the sweetheart period, came with a bevel grind on one of the blade projections.

You may be on to something here. In the world of Stanley 45s I have seen them both ways.

jtk

[Don Rogers]

I have often give thought to making a front in fill piece to fit in the bullnose area.

Good idea, Jim. It should give better control and help with the "sore thumb" problem. Let us know if you do that.

Pedro mentioned some important points about the nickers catching in the grain and about the blade being slightly proud out the side.

I also work the sides of the blade on a stone. There should be a good edge up the side of the blade. It should be just a few degrees of bevel. It doesn't need to be sharp like a cutting edge but it shouldn't be rounded or ragged.

jtk

All good points. I have tried Pedro's tips today with excellent results.

[Don Rogers]

The way mine is set up, the iron and cap iron are flush with the side of the plane.

As for the nicker, They are shaped like a cresent. Not sure what size camber that is, but it is VERY tiny radius. Beveled side goes in, the flat side goes out. And make sure it is flush with the side of the plane, as well. You want just a hair of an edge below the sole of the plane. I THINK mine is about a 1/16'' or less below the sole. Last time I sharpened the little bugger, I just flatteneed the backside, of the whole nicker. Might check the bolt that holds the nicker, Might get a burr there...

Nicker, or Knicker......always thought that "Knicker" was something you wore. YMMV

Steven, I discovered today that my plane works as it should when I paid attention to the details you mentioned. Taking out the nickers (not dropping my Knickers) adjusting the blade to be just slightly proud of the sole, and taking heavy cuts worked wonders. I have not yet checked the nicker profile but am sure it is important also.

Thanks,

Don

[Don Rogers]

This is in response to the nicker being sharpened or not. I have a sweetheart #78. The plane came to me in very good condition with just a little staining on the machined parts. The nicker was in the "stored" position. I removed it last night. The nicker has a factory grind on one of the blade projections while the other two are full thickness without any grind. The nicker is obviously unused as there are no wear marks or shiny indications of ever being used. The "factory grind" is nicely cambered with the radius of the nicker projection.

So my thought would be that the nicker, at least during the sweetheart period, came with a bevel grind on one of the blade projections.

Mine had all three nickers unsharpened and I sharpened the middle one . I need to check its profile - maybe that is part of my problem.

Don

[Don Rogers]

You may be on to something here. In the world of Stanley 45s I have seen them both ways.

jtk

Jim,

That 's what brought up this discussion - then I discovered I did not know how to set up the plane correctly. Think I'm on my way now.

Don