Workbench top design questions

[Phil Stone]

Hi everybody,

I’m a newbie here, but have been working wood on and off for many years. I’ve finally decided to build a nice bench for myself, and have been inspired by Chris Schwartz’s Roubo design.

My design criteria are:

1) Heavy and solid, as I intend to do chiefly Neander-type things on it.
2) Moveable; the top should be removable, and the two leg structures will joined to the long stretchers knock-down fashion.
3) Good for a 6’4” left-hander (but convertible to right-handed so my son might use it someday).

This is what I’ve come up with so far:

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The top design reflects the fact that I jumped on a good deal for a laminated maple top from Woodcraft (a Bally Block top). Then I began to think that maybe its 1-7/8" thickness might not be enough. It's only a 24 X 60 top, so I'm not really worried about sagging, but I'm thinking more mass and thickness for dog and holdfast holes might be good. That's the reason for the 8/4 X 6" planks on the front and back. I'm not crazy about this compromise, and have a couple of questions about it:

1) Does it make any sense?
2) If I use 8/4 maple for the planks (skirts?), can I glue them directly to the underside of the laminated top? Are there any wood movement issues with that?
3) Can I get away with a cheaper (non-maple) species, and what then are the implications for wood movement?

My mind is full of other questions, but I'll stop here for now. Thanks so much for reading this far!

Phil

[Paul Incognito]

Looks good to me. I wouldn't get too crazy overthinking things here. I thought about and then re-thought about my bench for a couple of years before I finally built my Roubo.
What did I learn? It's a workbench. Hard to do wrong. The 1-7/8 thickness will probably be plenty, in fact, holdfasts work better in thinner material. If after using it a while, if you think it should be thicker, just glue the extra to the bottom. I went crazy and built a wagon vise and bench dogs and after 6 months have hardly used them.
Yes, you can get away with a cheaper non-maple species. My benches are doug fir and heart pine and they work fine (although I do prefer the heart pine).
As far as wood movement, yes, it's going to move. Unless you do some radical cross grain gluing though, you should be fine. Of course, it'll need periodic re-flattening, but that's normal.
Hope this helps
Paul

[Don Huffer]

Your going in the right direction but I would loose the 2x6s under the top and just turn 2x4s on end.

I also think those types of benches are too narrow. Make it a little wider.

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This is my main bench. Love having the tool tray.
Top lifts off two small pins.
Small space under top to slide tools I use a lot. Bench brush,hammer, small clamps.....
Base only runs length wise under the drawer carcass that just fits in place with no fasteners.

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This one was given to me. Both benches are same height. Haven't put this one in position but it will be across from my main bench and used mostly for hand work.

[Phil Stone]

Yes, you can get away with a cheaper non-maple species. My benches are doug fir and heart pine and they work fine (although I do prefer the heart pine).
As far as wood movement, yes, it's going to move. Unless you do some radical cross grain gluing though, you should be fine. Of course, it'll need periodic re-flattening, but that's normal.
Hope this helps
Paul

Thanks for responding, Paul. I worded 3) poorly. I meant could the skirts be a different species than the laminated maple top, and if so, could they be glued directly to it without there being problems from the movement differential between the two species?

Edit: and the base *is* going to be Doug Fir, incidentally.

[Don Huffer]

After looking at your drawings again. I would suggest making the top thicker and do away with the 2x6s. It will stay flatter that way and you can flatten it with a router.

[Phil Stone]

After looking at your drawings again. I would suggest making the top thicker and do away with the 2x6s. It will stay flatter that way and you can flatten it with a router.

Thanks, Don. I think I would do that if I hadn't already bought the top. Now I'm trying to work with that as a design parameter.

I must say that the Bolly Block top seems very flat and substantial, even at 1-7/8" thick. Maybe I'll do 8/4 X 4" maple on the front surface as you suggested above, notched into the legs so that the front is all co-planar.

[Jay Park]

I'd do the same and mortise the legs right into the bench.

Here's a good video to explain a simple way to do that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBPxhIjJy7o

[Phil Stone]

I love the system he's worked out for building those joints. I probably won't go that way, though, since it permanently fixes the top to the base.

[Paul Incognito]

I've never laminated Doug fir to maple. Maybe glue up a small test piece before you get started?
I have some 1-3/4" thick maple bowling alley sections that I wouldn't hesitate to use for a bench top.
Paul

[Paul Incognito]

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BTW, here's my benches.
These are the first "real" benches I've built after 25 years of carpentry and woodworking. I chose the Roubo style because it's fairly easy to build and ends up being a nice looking, substantial bench.
Have fun with your build!
Paul

[Guy Belleman]

Phil, I built a Roubo based on Schwartz's design. The wood used was from some oak 4S timbers I found in the local penny ads left over from a construction project. The top is 4" thick, the legs are 5" square, and the stretchers are 3x5. Lots of mass. The base legs have 2x2" tenons that the top just sits on. I like the narrow width of 26" because like Schwartz says in his book, I like to be able reach over my bench in the small area I have and get stuff off the wall. The bench is 62" long, which good for me and my space, and with the vice on the end, placing it takes 7-8 feet of valuable wall space. This before I got a cabinet saw, so a lot of the cuts were made using the bandsaw. All of the mortises were cut by hand.

If I had one recommendation, it might be the one clue I gleaned from my own research, was to coat the end grain on the bottom of the legs with epoxy or resin so that over time the wood would not soak up water from the concrete floor, or otherwise, and actually makes it easier to slide when I need to, which is seldom.

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[Phil Stone]

Beautiful benches, Paul.

[Phil Stone]

Phil, I built a Roubo based on Schwartz's design. The wood used was from some oak 4S timbers I found in the local penny ads left over from a construction project. The top is 4" thick, the legs are 5" square, and the stretchers are 3x5. Lots of mass. The base legs have 2x2" tenons that the top just sits on. I like the narrow width of 26" because like Schwartz says in his book, I like to be able reach over my bench in the small area I have and get stuff off the wall. The bench is 62" long, which good for me and my space, and with the vice on the end, placing it takes 7-8 feet of valuable wall space. This before I got a cabinet saw, so a lot of the cuts were made using the bandsaw. All of the mortises were cut by hand.

If I had one recommendation, it might be the one clue I gleaned from my own research, was to coat the end grain on the bottom of the legs with epoxy or resin so that over time the wood would not soak up water from the concrete floor, or otherwise, and actually makes it easier to slide when I need to, which is seldom.

287095

Really nice bench, Guy, and thanks for the tip about the leg bottoms.

One thing I don't remember from the Schwartz's book is the reason for the longer overhang on the end of the bench with the face vise mounted on it. What's the rational for that? I'll be going with a symmetric design so that the bench can be converted to right-handed if needed, but I'm curious about this.

[Paul Incognito]

Tha overhang on mine ended up being more just to accomodate the vise. Just make it so the legs don't interfere with the operation of the vises and you're good.
Paul

[Guy Belleman]

Phil, if I remember correctly, the vise I got needed about 15 inches under the bench for the hardware and screw. I probably went a couple more inches for good measure, and with the weight of bench have never had a problem with the overhang.

[Phil Stone]

The design has evolved a little bit:

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The lighter wood is maple, and the darker is douglas fir. On the far right is a sub-top torsion box-ish structure. The Bally-Block top is screwed directly to the sub-top at the front of the bench, and through oversized holes at the rear of the bench, so that it can move independently. The tenons on the top of the legs go completely through the sub-top (which is bolted to the legs through the leg tenons), and partially into the top; they will fit snugly into the mortises at the front, and into slightly oversize ones in the back.

It would have been simpler to make a solid, thicker top, but this is allowing me to use the Bally-Block top I already have, and I think it's a good, sturdy design.

Any comments or criticism? I think this will handle seasonal movement all right, but corrections will be gratefully received.

[Rich Riddle]

I agree with the commenter who said most benches are too narrow and like a wider bench. With the vise on the right side, are you a left-handed person?

[Phil Stone]

I agree with the commenter who said most benches are too narrow and like a wider bench. With the vise on the right side, are you a left-handed person?

Yes, I'm a lefty.

[John Sanford]

A 24" bench will likely be good for you. My first benchtop was a 36" wide solid core door. While it was nice to have all that space, I didn't need it, and had I placed the bench against a wall it would have rendered use of the wall for tool storage essentially moot. Reaching over a 3' wide bench to grab a chisel would have gotten old real fast. My second bench, which is actually the first bench with a different top, uses a Jorgenson 25" x 72" x 1/75" maple lamination, very much like what you have. The width is better for me than the door. My next bench (under construction now) will have a top in the 26-28" range, and be 8-9' long.

[Phil Stone]

Progress of the "hurry up and wait" kind: I have my green doug fir for the base and sub-top rough-cut, stacked, stickered, and the ends are coated with a 50/50 blend of paraffin and mineral spirits.

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We're getting an early heat wave this week, and the garage will go over 100 degrees for sure. Daytime humidity will be down below 20%, recovering to above 80% at night.

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I've taken to covering the pile at lunch time with a plastic drop cloth, to slow things down a little during the extremely dry part of the day. Before bed, I take the plastic off. I don't have a moisture meter, so I don't know how wet the wood was to begin with (I'm weighing samples everyday to determine when it's reached equilibrium), but I bought it at the Blue Borg a week ago tomorrow. It will be interesting to see how it "weathers" the heat wave.


Phil