Shaper Questions

[Paul Incognito]

Hi all,
I bought a shaper a while back and have just set it up. I have a little bit of experience with one, but that was years ago and I forget everything I learned.
A bit more info: the shaper is an old Beach, 5 horse, 1" spindle. I have no other spindles for it. A couple of pics are below. I hadn't put the table on it yet. I recently got some used tooling from a guy who was going out of business, and have a bunch of cutters, a couple of corrogated insert heads and knives for them.
I want to use the machine for a raised panel wainscot job that I have coming up, and in order to get it up and running I need to spend a couple hundred for bushings, spacers and bearings.
Up untill now I've been cutting raised panels with a router, but the thought of cutting 35 of them makes me want to find an easier way.
Also, the cutter I'll be using is close enough to the same size as the hole in the shaper top. I was thinking of putting a 1/2" plywood top over the cast iron and burying the cutter in it.
I'm sure I'm doing everything wrong :) Is it worth it to spend the money or should I just stick with the router table? Will switching to the shaper make life better?:)
Does anyone have any thoughts/advice?
Thanks,
Paul
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[Mark Bolton]

I wouldn't stick with a router table if you paid me.

We run r/p face up, all table spacer/inserts are in for support (cutter on top).

A necessary investment will be in a feeder in my opinion.

There is a lot more out there (questions, issues) but that's a start.

[Erik Loza]

+1 on the power feeder.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[David Eisenhauer]

I don't know about this particular shaper, but there is no real comparison at all between a shaper and a router table for shaping requirements. Sounds like you have some rebuilding-setting up to do and, only you can tell if there will be enough use for it down the road to pay back the investment in the parts and time required to get it into useable order. Check out Weaversales.com for shaper jigs, cutters, bearings, collars, etc. They manufacture Weaver shapers and raised panel jigs, but their cabinet door jigs in particular are used by many other brand shaper users. However/whatever it takes to get there with your machine may be the question, but once it is ready to go and adjusted properly, it should eat through your wainscoting raised panels. Sharp cutters normally results in very little finish sanding for me to do. I have always found their service guys to be of great help when I call with a problem.

[J.R. Rutter]

A shaper is great for raised panels, but can be a little iffy freehanding against a bearing. Certainly do-able though if you work cautiously. The biggest issue may be burning the profile, which is where a feeder can really help (along with safety and consistency).

Do you have a fence and shaving hood for it? If so, I would consider getting a feeder and running the cutter above the table so that the edge thickness can be dialed in precisely and evenly for every panel.

[Paul Incognito]

Thanks for the replies!
I do need to make a fence/dust hood for the machine. I'll look into getting a power feeder. I don't have any problems hand feeding through the router table, will the shaper be that much different?
I'm going to order the bushings and spacers I need. I'll check out Weaver, I was going to use Schmidt. Any suggestions for a feeder?
BTW, doesn't the shaper have to run in reverse in order to run the cutter upside down above the table?
Thanks,
Paul

[Carroll Courtney]

I would also suggest,removing as much of the wood as possible using the table saw.I have install a 12" tall fence,till my blade close to the profile and slide the panel through.Sure helps the shaper and I say the lease amount of passes on the shaper the better for each panel.Not that I done alot of panels before but I mount a fence on the shaper to fit the profile,safer the better hands clear----Carroll

[Jeff Duncan]

Sounds to me like your trying got do this on the cheap? If so then I'd recommend a mdf top vs plywood as is will be flatter and smoother. Yes you can bury the cutter down into it and make sure you have good dust collection as it will make a mess…..though probably be easier to just cut out a slightly oversized hole;) I'd even go a step further….make a full panel hood something like….
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae307/duncanww/IMG_3212_zpsc3c085ae.jpg (http://s982.photobucket.com/user/duncanww/media/IMG_3212_zpsc3c085ae.jpg.html)
I made this one to go with my Innovator head. Works pretty good for my needs and helps with the dust collection having it enclosed. You should be OK with a 1" spindle as long as you don't try to get too big a cut in one pass. Sometimes it's better to do 2 passes than try to overwork a machine.

good luck,
JeffD

[Peter Quinn]

Thanks for the replies!
I do need to make a fence/dust hood for the machine. I'll look into getting a power feeder. I don't have any problems hand feeding through the router table, will the shaper be that much different?
I'm going to order the bushings and spacers I need. I'll check out Weaver, I was going to use Schmidt. Any suggestions for a feeder?
BTW, doesn't the shaper have to run in reverse in order to run the cutter upside down above the table?
Thanks,
Paul


Feeder? Steff is good, most of the comatic made ones are decent (basically every feeder except staff or the martin brand). I have a grizzly that works ok. Sort of hard to go wrong, its a basic tool. Most shaper panel raisers I've used run standard rotation above the work, that is you are pushing wood from right to left, cutter is turing counter clockwise. To run below the table most have to run reverse rotation. I'm right handed and prefer to feed right to left, but I don't like feeding panels freehand with the cutter above the stock. If the panel were to bob up, and the cutter caught a big bite, well that would just suck. You might be able to stall a 3HP router with a big panel, a 5HP shaper is not going to stall, just chuck the wood back at you. So keep your wits about you if feeding wood by hand that is captive between cutter and table. You can get panel raisers that would be below the table in standard counter clockwise rotation, just less common, just consider it and make sure to get the one that matches how you want to work, make sure to use good hold downs if feeding freehand, and cutters guards too. I think I got my last set of bushings from Amana through tools today.com.

On the pre cut with a saw thing...completely not necessary with a good cutter and a 5HP shaper, particularly with a feeder. I'd rather bump out the fence and take a few quick passes on the shaper than stand up the panels on the TS and cut them out, but methods do vary.

[nicholas mitchell]

Thanks for the replies!
I do need to make a fence/dust hood for the machine. I'll look into getting a power feeder. I don't have any problems hand feeding through the router table, will the shaper be that much different?
I'm going to order the bushings and spacers I need. I'll check out Weaver, I was going to use Schmidt. Any suggestions for a feeder?
BTW, doesn't the shaper have to run in reverse in order to run the cutter upside down above the table?
Thanks,
Paul

Hi, just looking at your shaper makes me nervous for you, but maybe i'm just a big sissy. But then when you ask "I don't have any problems hand feeding through the router table, will the shaper be that much different?" I get really nervous.
Shapers don't cut off a finger, they chew your hand to bits. I'm not trying to be a jerk but of all the machines in the shop that deserve respect, the shaper deserves it the most. Hand feeding a raised panel with a rub? I dunno man....
Try and get hold of a shaper book like The Shaper Handbook by Cliffe and Holtz. It's pretty outdated but has some good info.
Be sure of your process, go overboard with safety and best of luck.

[Moses Yoder]

I have raised some arched panels on a shaper free hand with pin and rub collar, make sure you eat your oatmeal first. Plus make sure if it grabs the panels it wrenches your hands into a non-critical area. You can buy some of those things guys hang on their truck hitch, you will need a pair. The difference between a router and a shaper throwing a board is if it's a router you might need to go to urgent care and get stitched up, if it's a shaper they take you to the nearest big city with a helicopter. May be slightly exaggerated for effect. Stay safe.

[Paul Incognito]

Thanks again for all the info!
It's looking like a feeder is in my future...I found a Steff 2034 on craigslist, anyone have experience with that one?
Not necessarily trying to do this on the cheap, just economicaly, if there's a difference. I also want to keep all my fingers and hands, so safety will be priority one.
Paul

[Mark Bolton]

I dont have a problem in the world with hand feeding panels on the shaper, its just slow, physically exhausting, and inefficient. You can "endless board" your panels with a feeder which is faster. You will not be physically whooped with a feeder. You will take less passes with a feeder. Your finish cuts will require less sanding. Your profile thicknesses will be more consistent.

If your panel has a slight crown youll never shove it down flat by hand but the feeder will.

If you trying to be profitable its a no brainer though it may eat your profit on this job (seems like youve jumped in big so may as well ;-)

You will still havr to hand feed odd, small, arched, panels. But if your doing a wainscoting job... well...

[lowell holmes]

I have a small shaper, an old Delta 1/2 HP that I bought new in 78. I've made raised panel doors, entrance doors, block paneling and such. I don't see a router table as being equal to it.

However, it is one scary machine with out a power feeder, which I do not have. It will do work that I think is difficult to do any other way.

Cope and stick joinery backed up with loose tenons makes a really good joint. But, those carbide wings on the cutters are in deed just plain scary. I use push sticks and jointer type push blocks.

[J.R. Rutter]

It's looking like a feeder is in my future...I found a Steff 2034 on craigslist, anyone have experience with that one?


Industry standard 1 HP 3-wheeler, 4-speed feeder. Good adjustments. Comatic copied it pretty well way back when, I think.

[Mel Fulks]

Long time ago shapers just had spring hold downs . Even when you have a feeder the springs are still useful for circle work. They can even be made of wood ,similar to laminated glue cauls.

[Paul Incognito]

Again more great info!
Thanks JR for your assessment of the Steff. I'll call the guy today and see what's up.
Yea, setting this machine up will eat most of the profit from this job, but it'll be almost free for the next one!
There's that, and, as someone said earlier, any money I spend is way cheaper than an ER visit...
PI

[David Eisenhauer]

I suggest that you look into the Weaver jigs and dust cover/safety hood gizmos. Their setup is designed for safe use by relatively un-skilled labor. I freehand raised panels through their jigs/hoods/hold downs/etc with a healthy respect for the operation, but not fear. I would never consider free handing against a rub collar as the guy I worked with in the 80's did. His end of the shop was a scary place when he was raising panels and we had words concerning the danger to me at my end of the shop even if he felt he was bullet proof. With my setup, all my hands are doing is the "power feeding" from a point well away from the covered cutters and the setup is holding down and against the fence. I use the next piece to push the first piece past the cutter and a long scrap piece to get the last piece past the cutter. As Moses said, fingers aint even in it - hands will go. Weaver's jigs and a feeder is about the safest way to go and should result in the most consistency as well.

[Mark Wooden]

I wouldn't use a router table for raised panels, the cut on a shaper is so much better there's no comparison. Cutter runs CCW above the work to give you a consistent tongue. And do get a power feed if you can swing it- better, safer cuts, no ripple and all the other reasons others have listed. Other than that, use hold down springs like Mel said. Make a safety guard to screw to the fence over the cutter if running them by hand.I'm also a proponent of roughing out the panels on a saw first, I find it's quicker than two passes on the shaper. I have a 7-1/2 hp Northfield shaper and I still do it. Old habits etc...

The old Beach machines were pretty good shapers, I've got some hours in on one.
Make sure you clean the spindle well and you should use something like Evaporust, don't just sand/file/grind the rust off as you can reduce the spindle diameter and get runout and vibration = bad cut and wrecked bearings over time. Make sure the table is square to the spindle and shim it if necessary; you'll get burn marks and scalps at the corners otherwise. Don't run it on that dolly, if it tips, you're dead. Clean the table well, wax it and try it out, it's a nice machine.

[Paul Incognito]

I ordered the spacers and bushings I need, and am picking up a feeder on Sunday. So I got that going for me.
Thanks for you insight, Mark. I'll clean up the spindle and make sure it's square to the table. It's already off the dolly. I'm amazed at how much the thing weighs, it packs an easy 500 lbs into a pretty small footprint.
Thanks,
Paul

[Paul Incognito]

Thanks everyone for the help. I got the shaper set up with the feeder.
All I can say is WOW! The limited experience I've had with a shaper was with a small light duty machine. It took 2-3 passes to make a raised panel. This guy does it in 1 pass and doesn't sweat doing it. And the feeder is definitely a keeper!
Here's a pic of the set-up and a pic of a wainscot section. Sorry the pic is so dark, I'll try to remember to take one before I turn the lights off...
287653287654
Thanks again, this would have been a much bigger project without the help I got here!
Paul

[nicholas mitchell]

Good stuff. Glad it's working out.

[Mark Wooden]

Glad you're up and running Paul. Big difference, almost an epiphany, right?;) Nice paneling!
One observation-
I see you've mounted your feeder on the outfeed side, as many do. I prefer to mount on the infeed side for this reason: when mounted on the infeed side, if the tower or knuckles aren't fully tightened, the feeder will swing away from the cutter; when on the outfeed side, the feeder will swing into the cutter. Over the years I've seen several mangled feeder wheels (not just tires, which are sacrificial) and some smashed cutters from slippage. I have mounts on both sides of all my shapers for when an operation requires one side or the other, and triple check for tightness on the outfeed side.
And one more tip-
Keep all the clamping surfaces on the tower and the tapered knuckles clean and dry (no lubes). They are designed to clamp that way. I've seen many bent handles and cracked knuckles (with gobs of brazing on them) from trying to get a dirty clamp tight. Should be no need to use a pipe or wrench to tighten the feeder into position.

[Peter Quinn]

Thanks everyone for the help. I got the shaper set up with the feeder.
All I can say is WOW! The limited experience I've had with a shaper was with a small light duty machine. It took 2-3 passes to make a raised panel. This guy does it in 1 pass and doesn't sweat doing it. And the feeder is definitely a keeper!


Glad to hear it's working well. Your experience was the same as mine, first time I raised panels on a shaper was the last time I used a router to do so. One pass, perfect, easy, cleaner. Almost feels like cheating.....almost. Enjoy that tool, work safe. Have you tried cope and stick on the shaper yet? There is another place where the shaper kicks the routers butt.

[Paul Incognito]

Thanks Guys,
Mark, I mounted the feeder where it is because there were already holes for it there on the table. I see what you mean about it swinging into the fence, though. I mounted a spare base on the router table to run the sticking. Aparently I didn't tighten it down enough and the cutter got the middle tire. When I'm done this job and have time to catch my breath, I'll change it. I'll be sure to follow your advice on the clamps, too.

Peter, Yea, almost like cheating. And I'm also done with the router table for raising panels. I haven't tried the cope and stick on the shaper yet. For now I have 2 router tables set up, 1 for the sticking and 1 for the cope. It's nice to have everything set up so I don't have to switch back and forth. Have you seen this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28uLpNzHXnY I like the idea of stacking the cope and stick cutters, only one shaper for both cuts. Maybe this is old news, but it's new to me. Now I'm looking for another shaper so I can set up both at once...

Paul