Climb Cutting on the Router Table ---- Do you / would you?

[George Bokros]

I just watched a video from Marc Sommerfeld on using his tongue and groove cabinet making technique. He recommends cutting from left to right (climb cutting) when cutting the tongues on plywood and only plywood. He says that produces a cleaner cut.

Would you or have you done climb cutting on the router table? I know you need to have good control of your material when climb cutting.

Thanks

George

[Dave Richards]

I have done climb cutting on the router table. Generally, though I set things up so I make more than one pass and the last pass, taking off a hair, is a climb cut. You still have to be very careful but there's less for the router to grab on to the way I've done it. Climb cuts do make for cleaner cuts, though. I cut tenons with a climb cut but then I'm doing them on the Router Boss where both the router and the work are secured.

[glenn bradley]

I don't route much plywood but, I do climb cut whenever an operation will benefit from it. Most often for me is climb cutting a very shallow operation followed by a "normal" routing operation to complete the profile.

[Peter Quinn]

I've done it for some pattern routing And an odd profile in difficult wood, never with small pieces. I watched that video recently, he also had a special hold down ( which he happens to sell...go figure!) and only advocated that particular cut in plywood iir. I watched the video out of curiousity, I've heard lots of guys here reference it, that looks like he most confusing convoluted method I've seen. Tongues. Grooves, building the case around the frame? All very add hoc. Old world? I guess that's a pitch about quality from a bygone era? I'm not seeing it. Glue a frame on the case, skip the tongues, maybe spline for allignment on a big frame, done. Never coming off. I'd be asking why should you build in a manner thAt requires you to route slots cross grain in plywood anyway? If you have a table sAw a dado does a lot better cross grain than a router slot cutter.

[Loren Woirhaye]

I don't climb cut much freehand on the router table and only then I'd make fine cuts. If you can use a miter gauge or something like that with some mass and structure, you can bear down on the work and move the piece in a way that resists the tendency of the cutter to throw the work.

I have a pin router and I avoid climb cutting with it though in learning I've done it a couple of times accidentally. Instead I take a lot of shallow cuts if shaping a tricky part on it.

[Phil Thien]

Like the others have said, I only do it when I'm not removing a lot of material. For example, I might be inclined to climb cut when flush cutting some veneer to a panel.

[HANK METZ]

As do others, only in limited and exceptional circumstances:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5YlmyCC90E&list=PL3CB03389468023BB

[glenn bradley]

Yikes:eek:. Watching those gloved hands near that machine was giving me the heebies. No loose clothing, hair, jewelry, etc. around machines. We never intend to have things get caught up in a machine; that's why their called accidents :).

[Kent A Bathurst]

............ the last pass, taking off a hair, is a climb cut.

This is exactly correct. You get the profile all cut in, and then you are going for a finish cut.

I do it every time on wood that is highly-figured, or prone to burning.

Other than that - if you use a climb cut, life can get very, very interesting very, very fast.

[Pat Barry]

Yikes:eek:. Watching those gloved hands near that machine was giving me the heebies. No loose clothing, hair, jewelry, etc. around machines. We never intend to have things get caught up in a machine; that's why their called accidents :).

Maybe one of the top 2 or 3 dumbest videos I've ever seen. I thought for sure it was going to end with either the board flying awya or his hand jambed into the router bit - maybe both

[Stan Calow]

I do it sometimes, only for an inch or less, at the end of a workpiece, to keep it from blowing out at the end when I run the whole piece through the normal way.

[jack forsberg]

do it on the shaper all the time in wood that wants to blow or is a low grade. the trick is a full body cutter.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0nim3xzDz4

[Wade Lippman]

I do it sometimes, only for an inch or less, at the end of a workpiece, to keep it from blowing out at the end when I run the whole piece through the normal way.

I often do it for a quarter inch. An inch seems excessive.

[HANK METZ]

Maybe one of the top 2 or 3 dumbest videos I've ever seen. I thought for sure it was going to end with either the board flying awya or his hand jambed into the router bit - maybe both


The no glove edict is probably one of the most misunderstood "safety tips" when applied across the board without context. Here it serves to aid in workpiece retention, giving ample friction against grab. Note there is little if any proximity to the bit, which is well embedded behind the fence. Consider the lumberjack, who deems a well- made pair of gloves an essential item of safety gear, and who operates a type of saw that can be devastating to human flesh- for him, the thought of doing without is unthinkable.

[Lee Schierer]

I climb cut when the grain is at such an angle where it will tear badly. If you are routing a circular piece there are two areas where the grain will be bad and most likely tear out. Those areas and only those areas should be done by climb cutting. You can also get tear out when climb cutting if the grain is the wrong angle to the cut. Experience will teach you how to read the grain and determine which areas to cut which way.

I made feet for some table lamps that looked like this. I ruing three of them from blow out until I did the cuts as shown in this illustration.286730 Note: The references are for routing on a table mounted router.

[Rick Potter]

I have done it occasionally in special cases, but try to avoid it.

That being said, I have one of the tongue and groove sets by Sommerfeld, and cutting the groove crossgrain on pre-finished ply IS one of those occasions. To avoid really bad tear out and shattering of the thin veneer when crosscutting, I used to take a skim cut, then redo it full depth.

Cutting the crossgrain with a climb cut gives a full depth clean cut in one pass. I have had no kickback at all cutting the groove that way. Probably because it is only a 1/4 x 1/4 cut, with no edge cutting.

Rick Potter

[Larry Edgerton]

I climb cut on the shaper, usually with a power feed. I don't consider router tables particularly safe to begin with as they have too much flex, and so climb cutting is not something I would do. Bit wobble is something you can not change, and that is when thing really start to go bad. I climb cut with a router often, but not on a table. I want the piece clamped and both hands on the router. Not a big fan of sommerfelds system either.

I have cut off a finger, and although it is not as bad as generally believed to be it is not something I am in a hurry to experience again.

Larry

[Justin Ludwig]

I don't route much plywood but, I do climb cut whenever an operation will benefit from it. Most often for me is climb cutting a very shallow operation followed by a "normal" routing operation to complete the profile.

+1

Practice with scrap material and take small bites at a time. Increase depth of cut to your comfort level. Don't get in a hurry. If you feed too fast you'll get chatter (cutter tooth/blade) marks.

[George Gyulatyan]

I was recently cutting rabbets on some small pieces of Wenge. I was getting a lot of tearout going the "right" direction, so I started doing very shallow climb cuts to start, and then cut the normal way to finish. Worked like a charm.

Had to build a jig to hold the pieces (about 3/8" x 5/8" x 5").

[johnny means]

I have cut off a finger, and although it is not as bad as generally believed to be it is not something I am in a hurry to experience again.

Larry

I find it very hard to believe that it's not every bit as bad and far worse than I could ever imagine.

[William C Rogers]

I just finished my cabinets using Somerfield's T&G system and did climb cut the plywood on my router table. I used a double feather board to keep the panel tight. I didn't have any problem and made the cuts in one pass. I don't do it on anything else. I would also say I am a fan of Somerfield's method as these are a very strong cabinet when built this way.

[Justin Ludwig]

I find it very hard to believe that it's not every bit as bad and far worse than I could ever imagine.

Though I haven't lost a finger, I had my steel toe boot get hung and when the steel toe got ripped out it took part of my pinky toe with it. Larry's right, it's not that bad... until the next day, then it hurts A LOT.

[Art Mann]

I climb cut routinely when it makes a difference in the cut quality. My experience is that I have much better control of the situation using a router table than freehand. My router table doesn't flex and I don't have any problems with bit wobble, even on big bits like panel raisers. I do take small bites.

[Kent A Bathurst]

........... much better control of the situation using a router table than freehand....

For sure. My one exception - lam trimmer with 1/8" - 3/16" round over bit to finish the sharp corners on a table top. Not taking enough wood for the bit to "bite" and fly away.

[George Bokros]

I just finished my cabinets using Somerfield's T&G system and did climb cut the plywood on my router table. I used a double feather board to keep the panel tight. I didn't have any problem and made the cuts in one pass. I don't do it on anything else. I would also say I am a fan of Somerfield's method as these are a very strong cabinet when built this way.

I built all my shop cabinets with Sommerfeld tongue & groove system and yes they are very strong when built this way. I will always build my cabinets using this system. I did not do any climb cutting on that build but considered it for the current project -- a closet organizer system.

George

[johnny means]

Though I haven't lost a finger, I had my steel toe boot get hung and when the steel toe got ripped out it took part of my pinky toe with it. Larry's right, it's not that bad... until the next day, then it hurts A LOT.

Don't get me wrong, I was raised to be a tough guy. I certainly don't feel like the initial "Ouchy" is the bad part of an amputation. On the contrary, the accident is usually quite fleeting and hard to remember. I imagine its no worse than smashing your thumb badly or breaking a bone. Dealing with healing, rehabilitation, then a lost digit FOREVER is terrifying.

[Harvey Melvin Richards]

I've done a lot of climb cutting on the router table and on the table saw, and always with a power feeder.