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View Full Version : Recommendations for water softener please



BOB OLINGER
04-07-2014, 8:33 AM
We need to replace our current water softener. Current is a RainSoft 2-tank system of which the resin tank appears to be leaking. Frankly, I would never buy another RainSoft product as all seem to be highly overpriced and a rip-off. I want to purchase and install myself. A quick look at Lowes shows they have Whirlpool - all 1-tank systems (the literature attempts to sell new technology of the 1 verses 2-tank systems). Does anyone have any experience with Whirlpool water softeners? We have very hard water (27 hardness level when last tested; I plan to test again before purchasing). Our current system is set for 48,000 grain capacity (computerized setting).

Since I want to purchase and install myself, this eliminates several of the name brands. Can anyone share their experience and provide some recommendations on water softeners? Thanks in advance for any comments.

Brad Adams
04-07-2014, 9:56 AM
If you want a good water softener, the last place to look is a big box store. There is a reason they are priced so low. Talk to a local plumber, and see if they will sell one. If a service need arises, you will have someone with the knowledge and parts on hand to do a repair.

Bob Vavricka
04-07-2014, 10:05 AM
I have installed two softeners bought through CAI technologies online. One for myself and one for my daughter. Mine is over 15 years old and still running strong. They have a lot of information at their site on choosing the right softener for your water. I think the most important part of the system is to choose a good quality control head. Fleck and Autotrol are two that come to mind. I'm sure there are others that are good also. I see a lot of other sites selling softeners, but this is the only one I have used and have been pleased with the two I bought.

Mike Lassiter
04-07-2014, 10:49 AM
I got mine from Sears I guess 10+ years ago. It has done a good job, and we've had no problems with it. From memory I think it was around $700 then. It holds almost 4 - 40 lb bags of pelletized filter salt and last for months. Previous experience with a WaterCare model with 400 lb separate container for salt like you have I think. Had severe problems with iron in water there. Glass of unfiltered water water would "rust" overnight. That filter ran a regeneration cycle EVERY night. It had a analog 24 hour timer that was set by inserting pins in timer dial for start time. No choice but regen every day.
The Sears one is digital and you set the hardness of the water based on testing. It regenerates when it needs to - not everyday so salt last many times longer.
It has a manifold that you connect water lines to which has a slide valve in it that allows you to push the slide valve over, pull 2 plastic retainer clips out and remove the filter unit should you need to - and still have water in your house. Not filtered of course, but still able to flush toilets and so fort with filter removed.
I live in a double wide mobile home. I installed my filter by sliding the electric water heater over in the closet it is in beside the furnace and placed the filter in the front area were I could fill it with salt as needed. I built a platform on top of existing floor with 2x6's with one running under the center of the filter crossways to floor joists for support, covered with 1/2" plywood and ran the drain pipes for the water heater high temp discharge and filter pipes up through this. Filter requires a drain for when it cleans itself (just as what you now have).
I had to removed the filter this past December at Christmas to replace my water heater after 16 years it began to leak. Wife cooking Christmas meal as I replaced the water heater. Was nice not actually having to shut whole house water off while doing this. Manifold has nipples that have rubber o rings on then to seal filter and manifold from leaking.
It was a bit of challenge getting the filter unit back in (and lifted back up on platform with it over 1/2 full of salt. First attempt leaked as I caught a o ring trying to slide filter back into place and dislodged it. Leak is instant when you push slide valve back to allow water to flow into filter again.
O rings facing away from you behind filter so you really have no way to see if you got it right or not until you push the slide valve back.

Paul Saffold
04-07-2014, 10:50 AM
I have had WaterBoss in 2 houses. The first I installed, the second came with our current house. The one we have is 14 years old. They are serviceable and parts and support are quick. If you call them a real person answers the phone. They came from a big box (Lowe's I think) which I'm not opposed to. Our water is 17 grains hardness.

Matt Meiser
04-07-2014, 11:28 AM
We have a system installed by the local water guys. I probably could have gotten one cheaper but it wouldn't have been set up by experts in our local water quality, and I wouldn't have gotten the support over the years as that's changed, especially when we had to deepen our well a few years back. That's the only time they've charged me--$30 IIRC.

Lee Schierer
04-07-2014, 11:46 AM
What ever you get, buy one that runs the recharge cycle after gallons of use rather than time. Our original timer on our softener would run the recharge cycle every 7 days no matter how much or how little water was used. The timer died and we replaced it with one that measures water use and then recharges only after a set amount of water has been softened. I can't believe how much less salt we use now as compared with the original timer. We go months without needing to add any salt and the water is still soft the whole time. Before we were adding salt at least once a month.

George Bokros
04-07-2014, 11:56 AM
I have a Kinetico, it is ~14 yrs old. Never had any problems with it. What I like is it has two softening tanks, you are using one and when it needs to regenerate it switches to the other softening tank and uses soft water for its regeneration. It uses about 1# of salt per regeneration. The salt tank holds at least 350# of salt, that is what the installed put in it when he installed it. Later he recommended not putting that much in the tank in case you have to clean the brine tank (where the salt is) because you will have lots of salt to empty out. I put in 50# at a time (one bag) and it lasts about a month. I use their salt because if you do you can get a discount on any service calls.

The bad part is it is only sold on an Installed basis, in other words you cannot install it yourself. Each dealer has an assigned territory by Kinetico and they will not cross each others territory. It also does not need electricity, no timer it regenerates when ever it needs to any time day or night all based on water usage.

Would I buy Kinetico again, yes. Had a Sears and had nothing but trouble with it. The control on the Sears I had was also based on water usage but it required constant maintenance of cleaning the screen in the control valve. Perhaps with a whole house water filter pre softener I could have eliminated the problem.

George

Pat Barry
04-07-2014, 1:07 PM
I got a GE from HD several years ago - It works but only if I push the recharge button. Otherwise it doesn't do anything. I think we got 2 years out of it operating properly. SO, I would not recommend one of those

Brian Elfert
04-07-2014, 1:23 PM
I have a Kinetico, but I bought it used off Craigslist for about $100. The local Kinetico dealer completely reconditioned it and installed the right disk for my water for about $600. I installed it myself although I did crack one of the fittings for the pipe between the two tanks. Apparently the o-ring is still sealing and it doesn't leak. The Kinetico works great. I would never pay the full price for a Kinetico.

I had a Waterboss, but the power got unplugged for a period of time and salt or something plugged up various orifices in the softener while it was unplugged. I was able to clean it up enough to get it to manually regenerate again, but I never could get the flow meter working again. The other major issue with the unit was every time it regenerated the water would turn orange from the rust/iron and I had to run the water for a time to clear it up.

Evan Patton
04-07-2014, 1:28 PM
We've been happy with our EcoWater unit (well, once the pain of the price wore off). Like the Kinetico it is installation-only service, and expensive. The good news is that salt consumption has been very good--we've gone through 4 bags in 8 months. It replaced a dead Kenmore softener when we bought the house last year. Our neighborhood has very hard water (~40 grain/gal), and the neighbors either go through a water softener every so often, or get one of the high-end units that's good for 15 years or so.

We also got their RO system thrown in, which makes tap water and the ice-maker ice great. We haven't had to change the RO cartridges yet (another service-only feature), but they're expensive, too.

BOB OLINGER
04-07-2014, 2:28 PM
We've been happy with our EcoWater unit (well, once the pain of the price wore off). Like the Kinetico it is installation-only service, and expensive. The good news is that salt consumption has been very good--we've gone through 4 bags in 8 months. It replaced a dead Kenmore softener when we bought the house last year. Our neighborhood has very hard water (~40 grain/gal), and the neighbors either go through a water softener every so often, or get one of the high-end units that's good for 15 years or so.

Evan,


We also got their RO system thrown in, which makes tap water and the ice-maker ice great. We haven't had to change the RO cartridges yet (another service-only feature), but they're expensive, too.

Evan,

Thanks, I've heard good things about Eco. In fact, we have that brand at our processing plant. If we go with an installed brand, it would likely be Eco.

BOB OLINGER
04-07-2014, 2:31 PM
Anyone have any experience with Pelican water softeners? They're advertised as a "no salt, no electricity" water softener.

Brett Luna
04-07-2014, 2:38 PM
We replaced our water softener system about 5 or 6 years ago. The model was we replaced was original to the house (or close to it) making it about 25 years old before it gave up the ghost. It was a Hague system, so that's what we replaced it with. It has an old-school flush timer, so it's no salt miser but still, we have no real complaints about performance...and we have water heavy in iron and manganese.

Mike Chance in Iowa
04-07-2014, 2:53 PM
We too have the Kinetico. It's about 15 years old and still running strong. We took it with us when we sold the house and use it at the farmhouse rental and intend to keep it with us when we finally find a home to buy. We have been very pleased with it all these years.

I had the local Kinetico guy come take a look at it after we moved in and he said that once we get set up in our own home, he can dial it in to those water needs. If he finds it needs repair, they can basically replace all the guts for a reasonable price. What is great about the Kinetico is it regens after gallons used and does not need any power source to run. We installed a cheap HD brand in our house before we sold it and it would regenerate even while the house was vacant and no water had been used. What a waste of water, salt & power! (Not to mention power outtages resetting all the programming.)

Myk Rian
04-07-2014, 3:02 PM
We have a Kinetico. Refreshes on gallons used, instead of on a timer. Never a problem.

Brian Elfert
04-07-2014, 3:48 PM
I am currently trying to sell my house. I specifically told the real estate agent I want to take the Kinetico water softener with me. He said that is very unusual as owned water softeners usually stay with the house. I can't afford to spend $3000 for another Kinetico softener for my next house. I suppose I could buy another Water Boss to leave at my current house, but even that $450 is money I don't want to spend.

George Bokros
04-07-2014, 3:53 PM
I am currently trying to sell my house. I specifically told the real estate agent I want to take the Kinetico water softener with me. He said that is very unusual as owned water softeners usually stay with the house. I can't afford to spend $3000 for another Kinetico softener for my next house. I suppose I could buy another Water Boss to leave at my current house, but even that $450 is money I don't want to spend.

If you are up front in the listing and it is known that the softener does not stay there should be no problem. People make those kinds of stipulations all the time. We twice took our dining room chandelier when we moved. We made it a part of the listing and our agents had no issue with it. It should have no bearing on the sale if the buyer knows up front.

If I were to move my Kinetico would go with me, not leaving it with the house. The RO system could be another matter since there is a special faucet on the kitchen sink that is the drinking water from the RO unit.

George

Brian Elfert
04-07-2014, 4:38 PM
My house is listed with the water softener excluded. The agent says it could become a sticking point in selling the home by not having a water softener. It is doubtful someone would increase their offer by enough to buy another Kinetico to keep the water softener. Just buying and installing a cheap one might be a better solution.

Mike Chance in Iowa
04-07-2014, 5:14 PM
My house is listed with the water softener excluded. The agent says it could become a sticking point in selling the home by not having a water softener. It is doubtful someone would increase their offer by enough to buy another Kinetico to keep the water softener. Just buying and installing a cheap one might be a better solution.

This is what we did and it was not a problem. But... we pulled the Kinetico prior to listing it so the potential buyers only saw the cheap HD brand we installed. We left the high-end kitchen sink filtration system since that was fully set up prior to buying the Kinetico.

Chris Padilla
04-07-2014, 7:09 PM
You should have your water tested to determine what exactly you need. Have an independent party do the testing (like National Testing Labratories) to see what your water is like before and after the softener. Once you have those numbers AND your SFR (service flow rate, how long to fill a gallon?) then we need #bathrooms and #people and if you have any exotic water needs (big shower, hot tub, etc.) and then you can get the right size for your needs.

Kinetico is nice but pricey and you'll be married to your local dealer be it good or be it bad. I would get a known brand in like Rayne or Kinetico and also one indpendent guy who isn't pushing a national brand and see what they all tell you. I need to likely change out my Rainsoft w/s and I'm going with the following from and independent guy:

Fleck 9100SXT valve. These are top of the line valve used EVERYWHERE with parts available EVERYWHERE.
Noryl bypass.
Fleck brand top and bottom baskets
Fleck 2310 safety float in brine tank
Brand name 10% cross linked resin...not anonymous Asian resin
Gravel underbed.

You can get all this going with Kinetico and pay ~1-3k more. If you have a good Kinetico dealer, it will likely be worth it if he takes care of you. My local Kinetico dealer leaves much to be desired so I'm not going to pay a premium to get that system.