Ipe deck

[Joshua Reid]

I am in the planning phase for building a 2 tier deck. First deck is existing and needs deck boards, railing, and stairs replaced (12'x10'). Then I was going to step down 2 steps (14") and build a 10'x10' deck and new stairs also put in a slide for the kids. Planning on ordering boards to length so I won't have any joints in the decking. Face screwing deck with trim screws.

My questions are:

1. Does anyone know of a quality ipe wood supplier near Charlotte, NC or one that will deliver to Charlotte?
2. I can't figure out what I want to do for railing?
3. Should I seal the deck or let it naturally weather (good both ways but prefer low maintenance)?
4. Has anyone used or heard of or used super shield (http://www.shieldproducts.com)?
5. Any tips for working with Ipe wood?


More Info:
2 story vinyl sided house in a development built in 1999.
Sloping land down and away from house.
First tier is about 7' off the ground.
The second tier is up the slope and 14" lower.

[Dave Bonde]

I bought my Ipe from Advantage Lumber (you can check them out online) and had them ship it to Iowa - I would buy from them again I have no complaints. If you order it from somewhere not local I would let it acclimate to your climate for a while, mine shrank quite a bit. I used stainless steel screws and predrilled everything and sealed all cut ends with anchorseal. Heavy dense wood that can cause irritation to some people, I went through one inexpensive blade on my miter saw. My project was a front porch that has a stone front and stone columns. I went with a white railing - can't remember the name of the product but it is a heavy composite product with a white coating - it was the the most expensive product I looked at but I really like it. Dave

[Lee Schierer]

3. Should I seal the deck or let it naturally weather (good both ways but prefer low maintenance)?
4. Has anyone used or heard of or used super shield (http://www.shieldproducts.com)?
5. Any tips for working with Ipe wood?


Where I used to work, we tested several newly developed and existing commercial wood treatment/sealant products on samples of IPE. What we learned was that IPE is so dense that none of the sealants penetrated even 1/32" into the wood. None made any difference to weathering resistance after one year as compared to raw wood.

Applying a Fluoropolymer coating that reduces friction does not seem to be a good idea for a deck that will potentially get walked on while it is wet. Talk about greased lightning.:eek:

Ipe can be cut with carbide tipped tools, but is hard on the cutting edges. It is brittle and will crack if screws are put in too close to the ends without using pilot holes. I doubt you could drive a nail into it. It is so dense it will not float.

[Joshua Reid]

The following website states that the product meets ADA slip resistance.
http://www.ipe-deck.com/SuperShield/

Website states the following for decks
http://www.shieldproducts.com/PRODUCT%20PDF/PRODUCT%20INFO/Wood%20Decks.pdf

[Ed Weiser]

We have ipe decks here in central Oregon. The climate is relatively mild but as Lee has said the film type finishes do not penetrate the wood sufficiently to adhere and preserve the wood. If you decide to apply a finish be prepared to redo it every year to maintain the appearance. If you want a wood that accepts finishes and will give you more than just one year, try western red cedar or redwood. Alternatively, get used to the weathered grey. The ipe will apparently last quite a long time without any finish at all.

[Mel Fulks]

I use PENOFIN . Applied it once a year for several years. Now it goes several years before re coating .

[Robert LaPlaca]

Have had two IPE, decks on two different houses. First it is some very hard dense stuff, I would question the face screwing with SS trim screws, my guess you will be twisting off heads like no tomorrow. You can get IPE decking with a grove on the side to use some kind of hidden fasteners..

As far as treating the decking, I have used the Penofin product and stopped using it, mainly because our current deck has a south west exposure. The Penofin product darkened the decking and looked really trick, the issue was the temperature on the decking must have been 140-150 degrees from the dark color from the Penofin treatment..

[Dave Bonde]

My decking was tongue and groove - didn't twist off any heads, but like I said I predrilled everything. I agree if not tongue and groove the slot with clips looks like a nice option.

[Rich Enders]

What about the new capped composites? Fiberon even has one that is matched to Ipe, and no maintenance.

[Mel Fulks]

Robert is right about the heat they produce! I've bought shade cloth for mine and will take in down in winter as the sun often makes it warm enough to be bare footed. I used the invisible plastic biscuit and stainless screw system. Would not do that again. It added at least $200 just for the hardware and is a lot of work. Because of the heat the adhesive they tell you to use bakes and lets go. Eventually I'll buy plain slotted brass screws to augment the install strength.

[Doug Ladendorf]

We have an Ipe deck that is several years old and weathered silver. It was there when we bought the house four years ago and hasn't changed a bit. I looked into what we could do to protect or refresh it but kept finding the information above, namely that it weathers fine without finish, and that it is so dense that nothing will penetrate anyway. If you wanted to maintain the color a bit longer something like Penofin would be your best bet. The beauty of Ipe is that you really don't need to do much maintenance (as long as you are OK with the natural weathered look).

[Chris Fournier]

Pre drill and countersink, adjust your driver clutch or screw heads will pop off. Ipe is a name used for about 8 different species and some of it does float. colouration can vary alot so carefully lay out your job stock before you start fastening boards down.

[Bill McNiel]

Two years ago I completely redid my cedar decks. Sanded everything down to bare wood and applied Penofin. Huge mistake, the Penofin turned dark, darker and now is almost black. Guess what I will be doing this summer if it stops raining?

[Lee Schierer]

The following website states that the product meets ADA slip resistance.
http://www.ipe-deck.com/SuperShield/

Website states the following for decks
http://www.shieldproducts.com/PRODUCT%20PDF/PRODUCT%20INFO/Wood%20Decks.pdf

When doing our research five years ago, we read similar claims by the other preservative manufacturers, but when we contacted them none had ever tried their product on IPE.

[Mel Fulks]

Interesting info,Lee. If that product can hold that indoor floor look it is truly different. I don't think anyone should be surprised that penetrating oils make wood darker. If PENOFIN darkens more than others it substantiates their claims. I think the best way to improve the overall look of a deck is with some high quality painted railing.

[Joshua Reid]

I was planning on pre-drilling and small countersink for the screw heads.
The picture on shield products site that shows decking used at Disney was interesting.
What species of Ipe is the best and what species is recommended for decking?

As far as railing goes I have been kicking around a few ideas:
Ipe railing with black aluminum pickets
Ipe railing with horizontal cables
All metal aluminum railing
I will have to find a picture of painted railing with ipe decking to see if I like it

Thanks for the info from everyone so far!

[Robert LaPlaca]

I stopped treating the IPE about three years ago, it has aged from the really trick looking dark chocolate brown, to a silvery grey color. Other than the color change the product looks like the day it was I installed. With the sun exposure, the treated IPE could only be walked on by expert fire walkers..

[Sam Beagle]

I sand ipe decks all the time. I use a product on ipe called "super deck". Made by super duck or something. Kinda a screwy name, but it's a great product. It's a penetrating oil specifically for exterior exotic woods. I have had ALOT of success with that product, other than that. Sikkens is also a top notch product. But rather toxic.

[Joshua Reid]

Can you walk on the weathered ipe decking without burning your feet??

I will google super deck or super duck and see what I can find.

Thanks for all the comments

[Erik Loza]

Can't offer any advice on finishing but my wife and I visited friends a while back that had a substantial deck area that was made of un-treated Ipe. Exposed stainless fasteners and stainless wires for railing guards. It would have been close to ten years old and still was in great condition. IMHO, you need to "like the look" of Ipe. The whole grey-and-stainless thing is a good match for contemporary architecture (their house was a modern concrete and glass residence) but, for example, I would not want it on my house (cottage-style). But that's just personal choice of course. And Robert is right: You'll need to pre-drill every fastener hole.

Best of luck with your search,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Joshua Reid]

Thank you for all who have replied; we are getting closer to starting this project and have a few more comment and questions

My Ipe freestanding Deck Plan is as follows:



6X6 posts (pressure treated)
(2) 2X10 for the beam (pressure treated)
2X8 @ 16" o/c for the joists (pressure treated)
Metal diagonal t strip for racking similar to what they use in walls.
1X6 Ipe Decking face screwed using trimtite screws in pre-drilled holes


I have the following questions about building an Ipe deck with pressure treated structure:



Do i still need the braces from the post to the deck?
What gap should I use between the deck boards? I have heard everything from 1/4" to 1/16".
I was thinking of using a smart bit to set the screws. Does anyone have a better suggestion?
Do I need to invest in a bowrench?
What size/length screw would you recommend?
Is it worth it to put flashing on top of the joists?
Which way is best for the beam? Notch one side of the 6x6 w/ a double 2X10 in the notch or Notch both sides and leave an air gap between the 2X10's?
Does anyone know the cost for quality vinyl railing?


As always, all comments and suggestions are welcome.

[Jamie Buxton]

... Is it worth it to put flashing on top of the joists?....

Definitely. Well, unless your joists are pressure-treated. But a strip of roofing felt over untreated joists is a really good thing. Otherwise the tops of the joists rot out.

[Mel Fulks]

Ipe seem dry but is only air dried and shrinks a lot. I used those expensive plastic biscuit type fasteners and some of them
are barely engaging at this point. Eventually I will have to add through screws. If I had it to do over, I would use pan head
screws through an oversized hole to let them move without splitting. IMO the one good thing about the biscuit system is
it lets the boards move without splitting. I would space them a scant 1/8. After a few years you will have some board 3/8
apart. The stuff can be slippery so the pan heads would help.

[Howard Acheson]

>>>> Where I used to work, we tested several newly developed and existing commercial wood treatment/sealant products on samples of IPE. What we learned was that IPE is so dense that none of the sealants penetrated even 1/32" into the wood. None made any difference to weathering resistance after one year as compared to raw wood.

Yup, no sealer or treatment is needed with Ipe. Its natural oils will protect the wood. In fact, the Atlantic City boardwalk was made with Ipe over 100 years ago. When they tore it up after hurricane Sandy, it was in "like new" condition.

[Joe Spear]

>>>> Where I used to work, we tested several newly developed and existing commercial wood treatment/sealant products on samples of IPE. What we learned was that IPE is so dense that none of the sealants penetrated even 1/32" into the wood. None made any difference to weathering resistance after one year as compared to raw wood.

In fact, the Atlantic City boardwalk was made with Ipe over 100 years ago.


Actually, the ipe in the boardwalk goes back only a decade or so, not over 100 years. Other woods were used, including yellow pine, in the original. Ipe was used much more recently. New York city start6ed using it in the 60's.

[Mel Fulks]

Think you're right about that. If I remember right when they first started installing it they were guessing it would last about 40 years in that salt water environment. Don't know what they based that on or if they have revised that.

[Ken Platt]

I made my deck railing from ipe and horizontal cables. It's a neat look, and I'm still happy with it after maybe 8 or 9 years. The deck is trex, which I'm somewhat less happy with the appearance at this point, but I got it for it's nice walkability, to make up a word. I am not sure I'd want to walk on ipe, or have my kids walk on it, barefoot. It can be splintery and the little splinters are painful for me - some sort of reaction, I suppose.

I too got my ipe from Advantage, shipped to CT, and I was completely happy with the transaction. They actually sent me quite a few extra pieces of the machined pieces that go on top of the posts and under the curved hand rail. I still have them, eventually I'll make some trellises from them. One of these days.

I have used penofin, and my experience mirrors the other posters - it was initially needing to be applied yearly, now it's every few years. It is dark, but slowly lightens over the few years until I don't like how light it has gotten and recoat.

Ken