Anyone have experience with modular homes?

[Brian Elfert]

I went and looked at a home for sale today. It was built in 2003 and looks like a standard home from that era. It turns out it is a modular home with the basement and garage built on-site. The seller left pictures on the counter of the construction and one of them showed the crane lifting one of the modules. (It is not a manufactured home by my understanding. I believe a manufactured home usually has steel beams as a frame.) The furnace and water heater are in the basement and not in a closet like manufactured homes.

Anyone have experience with modular homes? My understanding is they can sometimes be better than on-site as quality can be controlled at the factory better. This one has low end finishes typical of less expensive modular/manufactured homes. The windows are also cheap.

This is a classic example of how not to prepare a home for sale. The house was dirty inside and needed fresh paint on the walls. The home was pretty much listed for sale with almost nothing done to the home prior to sale. The only reason I would consider this home is because of the age and the attached 40x40 garage that can house an RV.

[jared herbert]

I went and looked at a home for sale today. It was built in 2003 and looks like a standard home from that era. It turns out it is a modular home with the basement and garage built on-site. The seller left pictures on the counter of the construction and one of them showed the crane lifting one of the modules. (It is not a manufactured home by my understanding. I believe a manufactured home usually has steel beams as a frame.) The furnace and water heater are in the basement and not in a closet like manufactured homes.

Anyone have experience with modular homes? My understanding is they can sometimes be better than on-site as quality can be controlled at the factory better. This one has low end finishes typical of less expensive modular/manufactured homes. The windows are also cheap.

This is a classic example of how not to prepare a home for sale. The house was dirty inside and needed fresh paint on the walls. The home was pretty much listed for sale with almost nothing done to the home prior to sale. The only reason I would consider this home is because of the age and the attached 40x40 garage that can house an RV.

If you buy a house like this, be prepared to replace the windows and exterior doors before too long. The kitchen cabinets will most likely need to be replaced if you want decent looking ones. The reason modular homes are cheap is that they are built with cheap components. I know that the quality of modular homes has improved over the years but I still wouldnt buy one. I have also seen some that are built with studs that are 7 1/2 feet rather than 92 5/8 that will make a full 8 foot high ceiling. Just my two cents worth . Jared

[Ed Labadie]

From your description, I'd guess it's a http://www.heckamanhomes.com/ or similar.

A friend used to be a crane operator, set quite a few of them, ended up buying one himself.

They are different than traditional modular home, better quality to start. The doors, windows and ceiling heights are standard like a stick built home.

Ed

[Larry Edgerton]

.
Anyone have experience with modular homes? My understanding is they can sometimes be better than on-site as quality can be controlled at the factory better. .
..

Bologna. Thats just a sales pitch. I makes no difference if junk is built inside or outside, its still junk.

I got talked into fixing a friends BOCA when it had water damage. [plastic plumbing] In one morning I found 76 code violations, things that I could not do on a stick built. Junk!

Run Forest, Run.........

Larry

[Jason Roehl]

Personally, I'd take a pass. Like others said, there are cheap components to keep costs down, but there's more. There are also cheap components to keep the weight down as the modules have to be transported on the roads. They're probably also not built to code--if the company is cranking out a bunch of them in a facility, they likely had an engineer sign off on the plans which allows them to build to a lesser (than code) standard in some structural aspects. From what I've heard from realtors, resale value is not good (hard to sell). When we bought our house 7 years ago, we looked at modulars/manufactured, and by the time site prep was included (grading, foundation/basement, driveway, utility hook-ups, etc.), we could get a 15-40 year old stick-built of the same size for about the same money.

Not a value in my book. Of course, I'm also biased toward a solid, "over-built" home and am content to upgrade interior finishes over time.

[Brian Elfert]

I've been reading a bunch of stuff online about modular homes and the opinions on them are highly divided. A lot would never live in one and just as many would have no issues owning one. I would never have known this house was a modular home had the seller not had the picture of the module being swung into place. I need to do more research on the modular home piece. My understanding is they have to meet the same building and energy codes as any stick built home.

I think I'm going to go to city hall on Monday and have them pull their records on the home. I believe they should have blueprints and so on from the building process.

The home as it sits is probably overpriced regardless of how the home was built. I'm torn on this one. It does feel cheap due to the windows and the finish materials used. I do like the fact that is newer and has a good high efficiency furnace and good brand name water heater. The water heater and furnace are not installed as part of the modular home and are in the basement. I'm reluctant to buy a home built before 1978 as homes built before then will often have lead paint and asbestos issues. Older homes will usually have less insulation and may have lots of stuff that needs to be repaired and upgraded.

The home I am in now was a custom build in 2001 and is well built. It has good windows and the interior finishes don't feel cheap. It is also worth about $180,000 more than this other house I am looking at.

[Lamar Keeney]

I would check on the manufactuer and the codes applied in your area.

My experiance with modular homes was in coastal NC in which they had to pass 100mph wind codes or better and while I was there they got tested living in hurricane alley as we called it (Wilmington area) and stood up with no structural damage. I will agree that most didn't have the best of everything but their still there the last I checked. I can truthfully say that they where built better than anything I've seen stick built in the area of Ga that I now live in. So do the research

FWIW I spent 20 years as a carpenter building to coastal codes in that area an they do inforce them.

Regards, Lamar

[Matt Meiser]

We are the second owners of a 1991 modular (not a doublewide) and unless you knew what to look for you'd never know. On average we don't have any more or less problems that a comparable cost stick-built house. We did have problems with the Peachtree Windows and our inspector had seen the same problems in a few other houses both modular and non-modular. We had typical builder grade cabinets identical to a couple other houses we looked at. There's some odd construction in the attic due to the roof being lifted after arrival on site and we don't have the typical beam hanging down in the basement. Ours sits on a full poured basement. This house had the nicest trim and interior doors of any house we looked at. I'm sure Larry could walk into any of the houses we looked at and find numerous issues. Its the way houses are built today unless you go really, really custom.

[Andrew Fleck]

I used to build modular homes years ago. At least on the ones we built there was no difference in quality between those and ones built on site. (I've built them both) It really depends who is building the home. There are poorly built modular homes and ones that are built great just like there are poorly built traditional homes and ones that are built great.

I can only speak for the place I worked for, but our crew did everything minus plumbing and electrical. We took a lot of pride in those homes.

I wouldn't let the fact that it is a modular home sway you just because that is what it is called.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

We had four on this farm. They are all different, two were junk, two were ok. I've never bought one, but there is an obvious difference between these, and I suspect you get what you pay for. I personally would discount a property if it was modular. That all being said, one of my coworkers just bought a new one, it's going on the basement this weekend, and it's better than the old stuff. I think the junk manufacturers are getting thinned out by the economy.

[Brian Elfert]

I wanted to build new again, but my 1,200 square foot house plan with no garage would cost about $230,000 according to a builder. I didn't really want a basement, but everyone says you need to have a basement in Minnesota or you kill the resale. My home budget this time is maxed at $250,000 so building new is out since I would be way over $250,000 by the time I buy a lot and build the house. One can get a new home with lot for $225,000 or less, but they seem cheaply built. For example they have cheap vinyl slider windows. If I didn't have the money for both good windows and good interior finishes I would choose good windows for sure.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I bought a custom built manufactured home in 1977 in Bend, Ore. It had normal windows etc. I sold it 20 months later an visited it several time since then as it was our first home. It's held up well and the quality was better than most stick built homes.

Larry.....not all contractors nor all stick built homes are equal. Just be cause you have high standards doesn't mean all of your compadres do too.

Manufactured homes or modular homes are like any other home. Inspect it well and buyer be ware.

[Jay Jolliffe]

They are not all built the same. I use to work for two builders that would put a few up now & then. One was very good construction with better than the average cabinets & appliances. The other was not as good with cheaper cabinets, appliances & rugs. I lived in on for around 20yrs. The only thing I found in mine was the floor joists should of been 2x10 instead of 2x8 which gave the floor a little bounce in places. other than that it was OK. I did make new cabinets & put wood flooring down after awhile..I agree with what Ken & Andrew say. They are not all built the same. As far as plastic plumbing & if it's Pex tubing their talking about Pex is the new copper pipe. Much easier to use than running copper pipe.

[Curt Harms]

I used to build modular homes years ago. At least on the ones we built there was no difference in quality between those and ones built on site. (I've built them both) It really depends who is building the home. There are poorly built modular homes and ones that are built great just like there are poorly built traditional homes and ones that are built great.

I can only speak for the place I worked for, but our crew did everything minus plumbing and electrical. We took a lot of pride in those homes.

I wouldn't let the fact that it is a modular home sway you just because that is what it is called.

I think that's key. We looked at them at one point. We could have gotten 2 X 6 walls, better quality windows & doors (or not) etc. etc. Not all modular homes are gussied-up double wides.

[Steve Peterson]

I have a friend with a manufactured home and it is hard to tell the difference between a stick built. However there are plenty of differences if you look close enough. Since it was essentially a double wide mobile home, they needed to make it slightly narrower for transport. The eaves were actually folded back over the top of the roof using sheet metal straps as hinges. Within a few years they were all sagging and needed to be re-built when he replaced the roof.

Steve

[Brian Elfert]

Manufactured homes and modular homes are not the same thing. It is a moot point for me at this point as the home has two purchase offers and I am not prepared to make to make a purchase offer at this time.

I'm thinking about just giving up on moving as I can't find anything decent in my price range. I have a very nice home now that is only 12 years old and very well built, but the property taxes and mortgage are killing me. I can afford my house (for now), but I would rather be spending less on housing and more on other things like savings.

[Mike Chance in Iowa]

Like others have said, it depends upon the builder. My former neighbor built a modular home 13 years ago. I watched them building it over a period of weeks. No one would know it's a "modular" home unless they were told. The walls & other pieces were built elsewhere and then assembled on the property. It's an incredible home. Gorgeous. Very well built and it's essentially a stick-built home in every way you look at it inside, outside & underneath.

When we built over 20 years ago, modular homes were outrageously expensive, so we went with a high quality manufactured home. We would never to it again. There are so many shortcuts taken when they made that home but you don't really notice them until after you live in them for a bit. After a few years, it was obvious what the home builder installed versus the quality items that we installed. Even though it looked great due to all the extras we did to the interior, it still had the tell-tale signs it was a "mobile" due to the short eaves to allow it to be trucked down the road. On the plus side, those homes are meant to drive down a highway at 60+ mph so they are somewhat durable to earthquakes, high winds, etc.

We have been house-hunting for 4 years now, and 2 weekends ago we looked at a "modular" home that is new on the market. EVERYTHING about it screamed "manufactured/mobile" home. It had the land, garage, RV storage & shop space we have been looking for, but we could not get past the cheap quality construction. We even pulled permits and half of them said mobile, while half said modular. Upon talking to friends in CA who have also gone the manufactured/mobile route 13 years ago and are currently looking to build on property in CA, they said they have been to some home builders that offer the EXACT SAME home in either the modular option or the manufactured option. They are both trucked down the road the exact same way. They look identical in every way. The difference is the modular home is lifted via a crane while the manufactured home has the axles removed from underneath.

The plus side with modular homes is they are considered stick built once finished. Manufactured homes will always be manufactured/mobile homes no matter what you do. They have higher mortgage interest rates, higher insurance costs, and they do not retain their resale value even if you eliminate the title. As the manufactured home ages, it becomes harder to insure - especially ones that are older then 1995 build dates.

[Val Kosmider]

A couple of years ago my builder asked if I would consider "doing my home as a modular" instead of custom built stick framing on site. My 'homework' on Modular Homes leads me to believe that they fall into three categories:

The sort of "double-wide" modular, built on a steel frame, and rolled on to a foundation is the cheapest form of "modular.". Quality is generally poor, but it allows an economically challenged family to get a 'decent' roof over their heads.

The second group is a "spec" home which is built in modular fashion. They are built to a plan which is repeated a zillion times which keeps the cost down. Once again, even though the construction may be 'okay', they cut as many corners as is humanly possible. Code? What code?

And the last group is a modular build of an already designed custom home. It is built to tight specs, and the product is generally as good as, or slightly higher in quality, than an on-site stick built product. You get good quality control, the beauty of working inside rather than in the mud, rain, snow, or sun of a job site. Materials are fresh and clean, have not been laying on the uneven ground, are inspected more rigorously, and the overall quality of the workmanship is high because the trades all work together.

I chose NOT to go with modular because I wanted to have a stick framed roof system as opposed to a truss framed system. This allowed me to have an open attic space. I suppose I could have had modular walls with an on site framed roofing system, but that would have defeated a large portion of the modular built advantage.

I started out thinking that modular = junk. Not so, it turns out. Like everything, there is bad, good, and great. It all depends on what you are willing to accept, and can afford to pay!

[Jerome Stanek]

When I worked for a home builder we built the exterior walls in a shop that we used a jig table to square them up sheeted them and then shipped them to the site. We built our own trusses and cabinets also

[Brian Elfert]

This modular house I was looking at is pretty cheap on the windows and such. It is closer to a manufactured home than a stick home although it has much better HVAC and water heater than any manufactured home I have looked at.

It might be a blessing in the long run to not buy this house because I would want to replace the windows at some point and that would probably cost $20,000+ for the windows I would want. On the other hand, just about any house in my price range is probably going to need new windows at some point unless a previous owner already replaced them.

[Myk Rian]

One of the largest builders in the country (Pulte) can put out crap. I've seen modulars built better than some of their stick builds.
All depends on who you go with.

[Brian Elfert]

A lot of builders put out junk. There are a lot of cheaply made new construction split level homes being built about 15 miles from me right now. They sell for $200,000 to about $230,000. They have the absolute cheapest windows that will pass code. I assume the cabinets and everything else are cheap too. I got a quote on a new house quality built and the cost is around $300,000 and the house is no bigger than the junk houses.

[Larry Edgerton]

Brian, just for reference, the cost in this area for a quality house, and by quality I do not mean a Pulte home, is around $200 a foot depending on what one has to have/can live without. Most of the increase in the last ten years is not labor as these costs have not increased much, but material costs and government intervention. Tract houses in general are a bunch of crap, just as modular in general are a bunch of crap. There are exceptions, but not many. By the way I do not consider a paper contractor like Pulte a builder myself. When I think of a builder I think of a guy that at least sees the job. I have been through a lot of those tract houses and have yet to see one that has quality commiserate with the price. Generalizing and lumping all the tract home paper contractors/developers in with builders is a disservice to all of the thousands upon thousands of small builders that actually give a damn about what they do.

Same with modular, by the time you get to the ones look like a real house, they cost as much as custom, and the still have the compromises that are necessary to be able to haul them down the road. Oh, and by the way, that built better as they run down the road at 60 mph is a bunch of hoohy. Another sales line, but bologna.

Some of you are confusing panelized homes with modular homes, they are not the same thing.

The key to the decline of home quality has much to do with easy financing. Large developers have their own financing arranged and can finance people that a bank would not touch if they were on their own using a small custom builder. A customer can get in a too large house through these arrangements for two reasons, the house is figured on square footage and features no matter the quality, so they, the developers, build as fast and as cheap as they can and give it the illusion of quality as seen through eyes that are not at all educated in what it takes to build a good house. What is hidden behind the drywall is never seen. Most people have no clue to fit and finish, and see things in an abstract sort of way, as if they are squinting or wearing the wrong glasses. They don't see the gaps in the trim, they only see the trim.

The other factor is that the houses are already done for better or worse when the bank looks at the paper, and this includes tract homes and modulars, so there is little risk for the bank. Unfortunately there are a few, and I believe a small percentage of crooks in the ranks of small contractors, and they have made it hard to get a truely custom home financed. Cost overruns, most often customer related can cause problems at closing when the bank wants to finalize and the builder has thousands in extras. Banks don't want to deal with unknowns, and can't have a builder throwing a lien on a house, so its much easier if it is finished before financing is begun.

This is why I only work for people that pay cash, but not everyone can do that. It is unfortunate that peoples idea of what they NEED has gotten so far out of whack and that they are strapped with house payments that they have no business having. I don't believe that a large house improves life in a way that counteracts the stress of having to pay for it.

As I have said many times, Read " The Not So Big House."

Larry

[Jason Roehl]

Very well said, Larry. That's why I don't paint much new construction any more. Many of the non-tract homes ("semi-custom") are built by tract home builders or former tract home builders who are looking to boost their reputation, but they want to build these larger homes for the same square-foot prices, or pretty close. But, since they think they're building a "quality" home, they'll have one supervisor ride their subs on quality while they continually shop for a lower-priced sub. No thanks.

[Rich Engelhardt]

We looked at a modular once to buy as a rental.

As we walked through it, the thought crossed my mind that we were in a Harbor Freight House.....

[Brian Elfert]

My current home is a custom build. I believe it is very well built, but nothing is perfect. The builder was really quite picky and expected a lot from his workers and subs. I'm sure Larry could find flaws, but he probably wouldn't be happy with anything he didn't build himself.

I'm starting to question why I want to leave this house because I can't afford to build again and nothing in my new price range will be nearly as nice. It is really way too big for one person and I would like to reduce my housing costs.

[David Weaver]

This is why I only work for people that pay cash, but not everyone can do that. It is unfortunate that peoples idea of what they NEED has gotten so far out of whack and that they are strapped with house payments that they have no business having. I don't believe that a large house improves life in a way that counteracts the stress of having to pay for it.


Ditto that. I am keeping my family in a house that's about 1500 sq feet on the main floor (but I do have the luxury of a semi-finished basement and a 2 car garage that's semi heated). Most of our friends who are about the same income level have houses that are closer to double that and much newer. Their houses are siding, mine's brick. Their floors are OSB, mine are hardwood. It's not as if my house will be maintenance free, but I have less trouble with a 60 year old house than they have with 10-20 year old houses.

When I'm 55, I'll be able to retire. They won't.

[Kev Williams]

We own a "mobile" home. Manufactured or modular, call it what you will, but it's on blocks and the axles are still under the thing! We bought it 6 years ago. It's larger and nicer than the home I'm living and working in.

But I don't think it qualifies as a 'modular' home for this discussion. I have several friends in Idaho living in 'true' modular homes, which were assembled onto foundations, etc. 10 years ago some friends paid $91k for the home in the pic, price included foundation, all other concrete and power/water connections. I've been thru it, nothing wrong with it that I can tell. Definitely not a 'mobile' home.
.286747

[Kent A Bathurst]

FWIW -

For 15 years, I worked for a company that, among many other markets, was [and is] a big player in supplying components to the manufacture housing and modular housing industries. And, also, a major supplier of components to the site-built industries.

Best example, not not only, is the roof trusses. The man housing roof trusses are a completely different critter than those for the modular business. In fact, the lumber, connector plates, and engineering software used for the modulars is exactly the same as for the site-built. In a good portion of the work, the machinery is the same also [but not always - long techinical/mechanical discussion there].

Other comments above are dead-on: You can buy a junk site-built house, or a good one. You can buy a junk modular home, or a good one. And - there are some very, very good quality mod's being built.

In fact - in the mod factory, there are generally jigs/fixtures used to hold the components as they are nailed/assembled. This tends to improve the build quality over site-built, in terms of alignment, etc. Something built by guys in a factory setting that do the same thing repeatedly, rather than guys freezing or baking in the weather. Highly accurate saws for trim lengths and angles, versus a hand-held skil saw.

[Matt Meiser]

Brian, just for reference, the cost in this area for a quality house, and by quality I do not mean a Pulte home, is around $200 a foot depending on what one has to have/can live without.

OK, but...that means a 1500 square foot house is 300K and I assume that doesn't include land so add another $50K. Now you have a nice, well built $350K 1500 square foot house. Better plan to live in it for a long time because when you go to move, you're not getting $350K for a 1500 square foot house around here unless you can see the lake off that lot (which you can't buy for $50K.) I like quality, but that's only a sound financial decisions for the long-term owner and the builder.

[Erik Loza]

We have local friends who own a modular home. Probably 5+ years old, now. They have had an issue with the attached garage sinking from the rest of the home but that was a site prep issue on the part of the builder, not the actual manufacturer of the home. I have been in their house many times and the construction looks at least as good as the actual slab-foundation, new contruction house I bought when I first got to TX in 2006. The only "giveaway" I notice in their home is the presence of a wood threshold between the living room and kitchen area, to (I assume...) conceal or mask the halves that were joined together. Aside from the foundation issue, I they haven't seem to have had any unusual issue with it.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Brian Elfert]

OK, but...that means a 1500 square foot house is 300K and I assume that doesn't include land so add another $50K. Now you have a nice, well built $350K 1500 square foot house. Better plan to live in it for a long time because when you go to move, you're not getting $350K for a 1500 square foot house around here unless you can see the lake off that lot (which you can't buy for $50K.) I like quality, but that's only a sound financial decisions for the long-term owner and the builder.

Exactly. I have a set of plans for a rambler that would be 1,200 square foot on the main level and then a basement. I had a custom builder give me a price to build and it was $230,000 with low end interior finishes. Land would be at least $50,000 and well/septic another $20,000 to $25,000. The house plans don't even include a garage for that $230,000.

I'm at $300,000 before I add a garage. My current house was built in 2001, is much larger, and has better quality interior finishes. It will probably sell for $330,000 or so.

Now, a bank would almost certainly approve me for a $400,000 house, but I don't want that big a payment. I'm trying to spend $250,000 on the high end.

[Larry Edgerton]

My current home is a custom build. I believe it is very well built, but nothing is perfect. The builder was really quite picky and expected a lot from his workers and subs. I'm sure Larry could find flaws, but he probably wouldn't be happy with anything he didn't build himself.

I'm starting to question why I want to leave this house because I can't afford to build again and nothing in my new price range will be nearly as nice. It is really way too big for one person and I would like to reduce my housing costs.

Actually Brian, I can find flaws in my own houses, I just don't like it.;)

Brian have you considered a house swap? There may someone who wants what you have, and has just what you need.

Larry