Good Hand Planes?

[Gary Petit]

Ok, I am starting out, and figured I should buy a few hand planes. The orbital sander does an okay job, but does not get the surface completely flat. So I am wondering what some good hand planes are, and what the different numbers mean. I have done some research, and noticed they range from 1 to however high the number goes. I also noticed there are hand planes for edges, curves etc.

What are some good hand planes to start off with that are relatively priced? I usually build bookcases, dining tables, desks, roll top bread boxes, end tables, etc. I have gotten away with using my orbital sander, but thought some nice quality hand planes would help my quality work go up.

Thanks,

Gary

[Sean Hughto]

Books have been written, Gary ...
And you're gonna get lots of answers about preferences and recommendations of "what works for me is ..."

Here's my advice. Get on eBay with a $50 limit (with shipping) and search for a Stanley 5 (jack plane) from between 1900 and 1935 (a short cut is to put (SW,Sweetheart,Sweethart,"Sweet Heart") in the search as this was the Stanely stamp in the 30's - a heart with an SW in it. Learn to take it apart, adjuct it, and sharpen the blade. It will make shavings and do jointing, flattening, and smoothing too. From there you can get a 7 and 4 or 3 and be set for life! ;-)

[Sean Hughto]

Oh, here's the 5 that got me started just like that:
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3274/3029105774_d55b79555e_o.jpg

[Andrew Fleck]

If you want even cheaper than ebay just go to yard sales or flea markets near you and look for the same thing Sean suggested. You might as well start researching sharpening while your at it. You will never get it to cut right if you can't sharpen it.

[Jim Matthews]

I would recommend buying from Tom Bussey, right here in The Creek.

He rehabilitates older Stanley planes to the highest standards.
They're considerably less expensive than the excellent Lie-Nielsen or Veritas planes
and orders of magnitude better than the current crop of Chinese made handplanes.

If you don't know how to sharpen, set a blade or "fettle" an older plane,
Tom's offerings are a real bargain.

Don't expect premium performance from less expensive tools, they'll need considerable attention to perform their best.

That's really what you pay for, buying the more pricey versions - those last few steps to get things ready for your bench.

[steven c newman]

You might also keep an eye out for Millers Falls made planes. They are every bit as good as the SW era Stanleys, and in some ways, they are better. As long as the model numbers are single items, like a #7 or a #8 or #9 ( Stanley #2 ,#3 and #4 sizes) I watch for a Millers Falls #14. It wil be the same size as a stanley #5. 286402Millers Falls #9

[Rick Whitehead]

Books have been written, Gary ...
And you're gonna get lots of answers about preferences and recommendations of "what works for me is ..."

Here's my advice. Get on eBay with a $50 limit (with shipping) and search for a Stanley 5 (jack plane) from between 1900 and 1935 (a short cut is to put (SW,Sweetheart,Sweethart,"Sweet Heart") in the search as this was the Stanely stamp in the 30's - a heart with an SW in it. Learn to take it apart, adjuct it, and sharpen the blade. It will make shavings and do jointing, flattening, and smoothing too. From there you can get a 7 and 4 or 3 and be set for life! ;-)

Don't forget "Sweatheart" or "Sweathart". I've seen both on eBay!
Rick w

[Gary Petit]

How would I be able to get a hold of Tom Bussey, to talk to him about hand planes?

[Matthew N. Masail]

Oh, here's the 5 that got me started just like that:
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3274/3029105774_d55b79555e_o.jpg

Is that Beauty a Clifton ? ?

[Sean Hughto]

It's a Stanley Sweetheart. I bought on eBay back when most postings didn't even have pictures. I knew next to nothing about planes at the time. It arrived literally covered in black spray paint. After cleaning it off, I shot the body and frog with a nice green Rustoleum.

[Pat Barry]

It's a Stanley Sweetheart. I bought on eBay back when most postings didn't even have pictures. I knew next to nothing about planes at the time. It arrived literally covered in black spray paint. After cleaning it off, I shot the body and frog with a nice green Rustoleum.
Hey Sean - where do you find the sweetheart marking on the tool? Not seeing it in the picture. Otherwise, substitute black paint for green and one of mine looks very similar.

[Sean Hughto]

The sweetheart mark is on the blade, but there are many other way to identify a plane from this era. I don't have the type study committed to memory, but it's easily googled. They are high knob with the raised ring, frog adjustment screw, a couple of patent dates, a more nicely shaped tote (after that they are often more blocky and less rounded in cross section), and so forth. Stanley was pragmatic and used what parts it had, so the types blur, but these are some of the things I think of when I think of this era - sort of type 13-ish. I only mention the SW thing to the OP so that as a newbie it makes it easier to locate this bunch of characteristics without having yet learned about the subtle differences between types.

[Sean Hughto]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-uAY8OFAM5ss/UxDvUtCC3-I/AAAAAAAAFvg/jMf_gWH0GDo/s1600/IMG_2429.JPG

[Sean Hughto]

The type study:

https://home.comcast.net/~rexmill/planes101/typing/typing.htm

[Derek Cohen]

I started off with this Stanley #3 (http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Commentary/BobsStanley3.html) ..

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Commentary/BobsStanley3_html_m24494092.jpg

Later I added a #5 1/2 and a block plane. It is really all that is needed. The rest is just the cherry on the cake.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Matthews]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/member.php?105561-Tom-Bussey

There's a Private message function in the notifications section of this website.
Click the link above, look to the left column and send a private message.

It may take him awhile to respond.

[Matthew N. Masail]

It's a Stanley Sweetheart. I bought on eBay back when most postings didn't even have pictures. I knew next to nothing about planes at the time. It arrived literally covered in black spray paint. After cleaning it off, I shot the body and frog with a nice green Rustoleum.

along with the rosewood handles and brass - it might just be the best looking stanley style plane I've ever seen.

[Sean Hughto]

along with the rosewood handles and brass - it might just be the best looking stanley style plane I've ever seen.

Trick of the light. ;-)

[Robert Hazelwood]

While the vintage Stanley/Miller's Falls planes work fine, buying one off E-bay or a flea market can be a real exercise in frustration. It's difficult to tell the true condition, especially with some critical areas like flatness of the blade back, etc. They can usually be made to work very well with some amount of effort, but there's a learning curve to understanding what makes a plane function well and how to achieve that in a vintage plane. You'd have to go down that learning curve before moving on to the curve of how to actually use the plane (which is not terribly steep, but there is a curve).

Unless you are very interested in learning how to restore a plane, or just like tinkering with old tools (which describes a lot of people on this forum IMO), I would suggest getting one 'premium' plane- a bevel down smoother (#4)*. Or, a vintage plane of the same type that has been refurbished by someone reputable. It will eliminate a lot of variables in learning how to get a nice surface from the plane. Pretty much you will only need to deal with getting the blade very sharp, setting the chipbreaker, and adjusting depth and lateral adjustment...then you get right onto learning how to plane.

With all that said, I do think it's a good thing to have experience fettling tools since it helps you understand how they work. If you are a patient type, and/or have more time than money, then by all means get a flea market plane and fix it up. It's pretty cool to bring new life to something that old. It can be a lot of work, especially if you don't know enough about planes to tell which ones are too far gone to be worth it when you're at the flea market/e-bay.

*I suggested the #4 size since you seem to want to replace an orbital sander. #4 is the standard size for this job (smoothing). For most people it is their most used type of plane.

[Sean Hughto]

Yeah, Gary, this is the age old debate. You can buy a nice premium plane - like a LN or a Veritas. They work great right out of the box, but cost 4x or more. But there is nothing like the lessons the vintage plane will teach. And frankly, other than cracked or rusted out or otherwise broken planes, I don't think many vintage 4 or 5 planes require any complicated or lengthy fettling to work great. Don't buy a complete dog - spend an extra $10 bucks to get one without a cracked tote or major rust etc.

I always assume folks attracted to woodworking are sort of good with their hands, mechanically oriented, and so forth such that making a "chisel in a jig" cut well ought to be in their wheelhouse. For example making a roll top breadbox like you mention is likely a lot more complicated than wiping down, sharpening, and setting a Stanley 4.

[Daniel Rode]

I recently purchased a #6 in really nice "user" condition from another forum member. Maybe they all don't go as well but it worked out great for me. He knew exactly what I was looking for and was able to describe the condition to me in detail. It's most likely just over 100 years old but was complete with no damage and nothing missing. I re-flattened and sharpened the iron and started using it that day.

[Jim Koepke]

Gary,

Welcome to cave by the Creek. Your location is not in your profile. You may live near someone who is willing to offer help in your understanding or hand planes. If you live in the Portland, Oregon area I would be happy to have you come by some day and take a test drive of my various hand planes.

For starting out, here is a post I wrote a few years ago:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?148076-Getting-Started-With-Hand-Planes&p=1512189#post1512189

As with many things in life I have learned a bit more since then. The first post has a few links with lots of information on planes. It has a link to Patrick Leach's web site with the information on plane sizes and usage. It doesn't have a link to Johnny Kleso's web site:

https://home.comcast.net/~rarebear/planes101/typing/typing.htm

This page has lots of pictures of planes taken apart so you can see how they have been made through the years. It also has links to other pages about planes.

At the top of the Neanderthal Haven forum is Neanderthal Haven Announcements. When that is opened there is what is known as a "Sticky" Neanderthal wisdom/FAQs:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?103805-Neanderthal-wisdom-FAQs

There are many posts from over the years linked on that page.

Everyone has a different opinion on how to start out with hand planes or hand tools. Most agree that one of the important early steps is learning how to sharpen. It seems no one agrees on the best method of sharpening. My advise is to find what works for you and your needs. My philosophy is to keep it simple.

My start in the hand tool arena was when I was not able to spring for a new high quality plane from Lie-Nielsen or Lee Valley. I did have experience as a mechanic on bicycles and automobiles and a few other things. My first attempts were not outstanding, but they did work. So for me, buying old junk and fixing it up has worked for me throughout life.

Another way many advocate is to purchase a premium plane, LN or LV, to find what the goal looks like before trying to work on fixing up an old plane to work at the new plane level. If you have the financial ability this is not a bad idea. Once you learn about the plane's abilities and tune another to work as well, the 'new' plane can be sold for close to what it cost if it hasn't been mistreated. Hint: Save the box and packing material in good condition for the best return.

Finally, if you have any questions while getting up to speed, the folks here always have been very enthusiastic about helping others.

Good luck and have fun,

jtk

[Shawn Pixley]

Yeah, Gary, this is the age old debate. You can buy a nice premium plane - like a LN or a Veritas. They work great right out of the box, but cost 4x or more. But there is nothing like the lessons the vintage plane will teach. And frankly, other than cracked or rusted out or otherwise broken planes, I don't think many vintage 4 or 5 planes require any complicated or lengthy fettling to work great. Don't buy a complete dog - spend an extra $10 bucks to get one without a cracked tote or major rust etc.

I always assume folks attracted to woodworking are sort of good with their hands, mechanically oriented, and so forth such that making a "chisel in a jig" cut well ought to be in their wheelhouse. For example making a roll top breadbox like you mention is likely a lot more complicated than wiping down, sharpening, and setting a Stanley 4.

Sean, I agree with you partially. I agree that it is good to learn to fettle used planes. The problem is for the newbie to get a plane that is worth fettling. There are a lot of dog, "plane shaped objects" out there that are arn't worthe the time to fettle. Much less, work well after fettling. I was given two such items, a Miller Falls and a Craftsman. I could get them to cut but even at the end, they didn't work right. I won't sell them or even give them away because they cannot be made to work properly without totally re-machining.

I think a newbies first plane should be one that works from the start. This gives them a reference point to where to go when they fettle their first plane. Some enjoy fettling much more than I. I've done a few and am better for the experience. But I want to work wood; using the tool is far more important to me.

[Sean Hughto]

You set up a bit of strawman there in bringing in every used plane under the sun - there are craploads of dogs from around 1950 to the present. For those reading along I should have been more clear, my comments are limited to pre-WWII Stanley bench planes. Stanley's from this era are very unlikely to be dogs, unlike a 1975 Stanley "Handyman" or present day Orange Depot Buck or whatever.

[Pedro Reyes]

You set up a bit of strawman there in bringing in every used plane under the sun - there are craploads of dogs from around 1950 to the present. For those reading along I should have been more clear, my comments are limited to pre-WWII Stanley bench planes. Stanley's from this era are very unlikely to be dogs, unlike a 1975 Stanley "Handyman" or present day Orange Depot Buck or whatever.

I second this, and I usually try to stay away from the discussion because it often gets heated, but...

All you need is a little self education, no more than about 20-30 minutes reading, about which planes are more likely to yield a quality tool, and which defects to avoid.

I'll take anything type 8 to type 15 (anyone can figure this out with the available pages)
I'll avoid cracked, welded, pitted, broken totes, missing parts...

I think I have purchased ~15 planes on ebay, all under $50 except three (7 and 8s), and outside of one (1) where I did not pay attention to a cracked mouth, none are dogs, none! Some are nicer, required less work, etc. Some I have not even fettled yet. And I was a complete noob when I got most of these, I did read Hack's book, Patrick's page as well as hipperkittens info. They all required work, some considerable, some little, but they all did.

So if it's work someone is trying to avoid, fair enough, LN or LV works pretty much straight out of the box after honing. But to claim that most planes out there are crappy is really not the case, there are good tools out there, not hard to find them either.

/p

[Shawn Pixley]

Sean, I think we are on fundamentally the same page. Unfortunately, a newbie doesn't know how te separate a plane with potential from a basket case from a just plain dog. Maybe it is different where you are, but around here you could waste half your life looking for a decent plane at garage sales. Due to the fact that the population growth here is relatively recent (1930's foreward), there isn't a large population that has old tools that turn up in garage sales.

A newbie isn't likely to know how to check the plane's sole, look for cracks in the mouth, frog mismatch, etc... I stand by my comment that the first plane should be one that works from the start. Buying from a creek contributor, or a known supplier of a good instrument gives him or her a reference point for future planes. You and I may be able to look beyond surface rust, dirt and grime to find a diamond in the rough. They probably can't yet differentiate between a problem in the plane itself or a lack of a sufficiently sharp blade. I'd also advise the OP to look for a Creeker in their area who could help him and / or let him try a known working plane.

[Sean Hughto]

I understand your point. I disagree to the extent that learning to identify a pre-WWII plane is a matter of 10 minutes of perusing the type study, not to mention sellers will often tell you the type # or date range. As far as availability, I could buy a dozen a day on e-Bay and so could a newbie (i.e., you don't need a local supply). With the seller ratings, description, multiple photos and ability to ask basic question of the sellers, not to mention returns if the product is not as described, it really is no trick even for a newbie to get a clean and immediately workable Stanley 4 or 5 inside a week.

[Robert Hazelwood]

Another element to this discussion is when a new plane user is struggling with producing a nice surface, and they try to figure out what is going wrong. Did they screw something up fettling the plane? Too heavy of a cut? Wrong grain direction? Iron not sharp enough? Is the wood not suitable for planing? At least a few variables are eliminated with a known "tuned" plane, versus one they've attempted to tune themselves for the first time. Mainly, if they have a nice new LN then they can't blame "this peice of junk fleabay plane" for the results =D

I most definitely went the vintage route. I only recently bought a premium plane, and then I realized that I had gotten my Stanleys working pretty darn well and there was nothing magical about the premiums. But it took me a while to get there, some frustrations, and a lot more than 20-30 minutes of reading. I'm someone who likes fooling around with tools, and I feel like I understand how planes work much better than if I had gotten one that was ready to go, so overall I'd say that was a positive experience. But I figured the OP would benefit from hearing this. Maybe he just wants to buy a plane and start smoothing boards in a way that is far more enjoyable than with a ROS.

Edited to add: The challenge for me initially was to understand how a properly tuned plane *should* feel when used, so that I could confirm I had done things correctly. As a newbie you look at videos of someone making shavings and it seems thoughtless and effortless...but often it isn't quite that way. So, if the OP has access to a well-setup plane of any type, ideally he could use that for a while so he knows how it is supposed to work when everything is right.

[Pedro Reyes]

... Unfortunately, a newbie doesn't know how te separate a plane with potential from a basket case from a just plain dog. Maybe it is different where you are, but around here you could waste half your life looking for a decent plane at garage sales. ...
A newbie isn't likely to know how to check the plane's sole, look for cracks in the mouth, frog mismatch, etc...

To each his own, but I disagree with the comments above, I'm in Texas and there is basically no rust hunting here, yet as a complete noob I got very nice planes, and the knowledge is easy to get and easy to understand.

/p

[Jim Koepke]

I'm in Texas and there is basically no rust hunting here

Maybe you need to go some place where it rains more? :D

I know what you mean though. The long established settlements tend to have more tools for sale on a typical yard sale tour.

jtk

[Sean Hughto]

Yes, Gary, buy a LN 5, it's only $325, but it will come sharp enough to plane okay even without honing. But you will still unfortunately still have to figure out how to advance the blade to the proper depth and maybe even touch the lateral adjuster or - heaven-forbid - set the cap iron! The $35 Stanley 5, will likely require ten minutes to sharpen, but maybe not if the prior owner was actually using the thing. The blade depth, lateral adjuster, and cap-iron "problems" will be the same with the vintage. Oh, and while it won't effect use, you might want to clean up the vintage plane to make it look prettier by polishing, sanding and oiling here and there, but that is pretty much cosmetic and has nothing to do with slicing wood.

[Pedro Reyes]

Maybe you need to go some place where it rains more? :D

I know what you mean though. The long established settlements tend to have more tools for sale on a typical yard sale tour.

jtk

It is sad really, I am jealous when I see people come back from simple garage sale trips with a bunch of tools, hardly anything here. You visit an antique shop and they want over $50 for a plain old #4, just because it's over 100 years old. But, Ebay has enabled me to rust hunt, just a little more money and the shipping of course, there is still plenty out there even for someone in Hawaii.

/p

[Shawn Pixley]

I see your point as well. We'll agree to disagree. Just for yucks I went the the site that must not be mentioned and searched for a Bailey#5. Of the first 15 that were displayed to me, only 2 had a photo of the sole / mouth. 4 were post WWII. Three were basket cases or parts only. Four had broken or missing pieces (beyond a cracked tote). Yes I think someone could get a good user from the site who must not be named. You or I certainly could. But I think for a newbie it is very much a hit or miss proposition. Luckily, everyone can choose for themselves. I want to make projects, not fix and tune planes. I can do it but take no real pleasure there. But I don't have too many duplicate planes (other than 3 smoothers - a Bailey 3 & 4, and a LN 4-1/2).

It can be a matter of priorities. I prabably have one of the most embarassing shops (read as garage) in the forum. My bench is too embarassing to show. It its on sawhorses and is a mix of MDF and laminated wood. But it is flat and I can do good work on top of it. My shop furniture is factory made from the previous owner. I really have little interest in improving it. I want to build furniture instead. I suffer from not having much spare time, so I try to spend my time making projects, not repairing tools.

[Sean Hughto]

So if I search for "Stanley 5 plane" I get over 400 hits. Some may be parts or other planes with 5 somewhere in the title, but my point is 15 isn't scratching the surface.

Anyone reading this, I personally offer: pm me with an Item number and I'll give you my input, no guarantee of course, but I'll tell you whether I would buy it.

[Paul McGaha]

I think the classified section here on the creek is a good source for used planes (and lots of other things). All the transactions I've had with creekers have gone well.

I've bought 1 plane from Patrick Leach and I'd do that again.

Kind of fun working on old planes, mainly just cleaning it.

I get a new one from LN once in a while, more of a want than a need.

To each their own way.

PHM

[Gary Petit]

Thanks everyone for the helpful tips and ideas or thoughts about hand planes. I assumed everyone would have there own opinion on hand planes, although it seems everyone agrees to start out with a #5 jack plane. For the majority of my work will be strictly for just leveling a large glued panel that I am not able to run through the planer to surface it. For this work it seems that a # 5 would suite my needs the best. Now just finding one for a good price. I don't want to kill my budget, but am willing to spend around $80. Although, I would not mind rehabbing an old plane. I enjoy taking something that was nothing and putting life back into it. I have done that with the majority of my tools and they have seemed to work great for me so far.

But I would like if possible to spend less money on a hand plane. For some reason if I decide I don't like the hand plane method, I have not invested a ton of money into a hand plane.

I appreciate all the tips and pointers. It is much appreciated.

Thanks,

Gary

[David Weaver]

Maybe a user on here would be willing to clean up an old plane for you, flatten and sharpen the iron and flatten the sole. Most of the rest of anything someone would do to a plane would be a waste of time in terms of how the plane will perform.

If I had an extra 5, I'd shovel one off.

It reminds me of the saw thread, too. It's easy to tell what makes a good saw once you've had a few bad ones and a few good ones, and it's easy to work on saws once you've hammered a half dozen of them straight again and adjusted a few sets of teeth.

Spend about $40 on ebay or so for a good 5 with the following attributes:
* reasonably old
* good shape iron and cap iron with near full iron left and no pitting
* good uncracked and unchipped wood (doesn't matter if the wood is beech or rosewood, but rosewood will have shrunk less if the plane has been in disuse)
* not too much rust and no odd signs of heavy wear on the sole

Send a PM to some folks with auction numbers if you don't know whether or not a plane is old enough to be a desirable user.

[Joe Bailey]

A recurring argument, offered by those wishing to dissuade newbies from buying used, is that eB*y has nothing but junk or is filled with scam artists. (This is a distinct argument from the one that says it's too hard/takes too much time/is not time effective to rehab old tools)
While I'm sure some of these opponents have actually had bad experiences, I think much of it is just something that gains traction from being repeated.
I have personally sold hundreds of planes, saws etc for many years there and have had numerous repeat customers.
I have also bought many nice tools from that site.
I'm sure many others here could make the same claims.
If you are buying junk because you don't know what you're looking for, then your lack of knowledge would have you buying the same junk locally.
If on the other hand, you do know what to look for, and you buy based on crappy pictures with no descriptions, or fail to ask questions where appropriate, well then the problem lies with you -- the buyer.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Trick of the light. ;-)

Sure fooled me :)

Do you remember if you used spray paint or other? I don't think we have the brand you mentioned over here but I'm just asking what kind of stuff to look for.

[Pat Barry]

Sean, I agree with you partially. I agree that it is good to learn to fettle used planes. The problem is for the newbie to get a plane that is worth fettling. There are a lot of dog, "plane shaped objects" out there that are arn't worthe the time to fettle. Much less, work well after fettling. I was given two such items, a Miller Falls and a Craftsman. I could get them to cut but even at the end, they didn't work right. I won't sell them or even give them away because they cannot be made to work properly without totally re-machining.

I think a newbies first plane should be one that works from the start. This gives them a reference point to where to go when they fettle their first plane. Some enjoy fettling much more than I. I've done a few and am better for the experience. But I want to work wood; using the tool is far more important to me.
I'm checking with Guiness to verify, however I do think you have a tremendous shot at getting your name in the record book Shawn.

[Shawn Pixley]

Sean - I don't pretend the 15 hits were exhaustive but merely a representative cohort. My point was that there is a lot of filtering required to get a plane that could be working in a week. Additionally, most of the adds do not show enough information in which to make an informed decision (sole flatness, cracks at mouth, pitting on blade). Your and David's offer to opine upon a particular item is very generous.

Joe - I am neither trying to persuade nor encourage people to buy from the site that must not be named. The OP wanted advice / opinions from the membership. I am providing my subjective opinion. Others have as well. Their opinion, like yours may be different. People have different perspectives, money and / or time. What is right for you may not be right for me.

There is no clear right vs wrong; only choice. Choice is torment.

[Frederick Skelly]

How would I be able to get a hold of Tom Bussey, to talk to him about hand planes?

Gary,
Watch the classified forum here on SMC. Bussey pops up regularly with planes for sale. You might also ggogle "tablesaw tom" - hes on other sites as well, and his work is very well respected.
Fred

[Marko Milisavljevic]

Here is some input from a relative newbie... Until I suddenly decided to get into woodworking I had never done anything with any tools other than perhaps a screwdriver and a hammer - hanging a picture frame or very minor work on my vehicles. I was facing an enormous amount of learning to be able to do simplest things. Early on I bought a divider from LV that didn't have properly ground pointy tips. It would not take me 5 minutes to settle that now, but then I simply had no idea how do deal with it, nor tools to do it with, so I had to return it. On top of learning, some of us really don't care to spend hours pouring over ebay listings, analyzing differences between them, or reading up on different Stanley 5 types. Then you have to analyze when you get the plane whether the frog isn't sitting right and if not why not, or realize that cap iron is twisted laterally, while the whole time having the problem that you really don't know what to look for, and ignore big problems while spending a lot of effort on insignificant ones. I did all that and wish I could get that time back, because in retrospect I see it as having wasted at least a hundred hours on topic of old planes, when, on the budget end of things, I could just buy a Woodriver #5 for $170, polish the back of the blade, hone it, and start planing without wondering whether something is off. The only alternative I would suggest to myself if I was starting over was to buy known-good plane from a member here or from someone who has a reputation for selling rehabbed planes. OP seems to be handy and buildings things already, so this was more of a general commentary about possible frustration with old planes for people who know nothing.

[Sean Hughto]

Yeah, we got to look out for the "know-nothings." If the least capable among woodworkers cannot make a used plane work, it is indeed folly for anyone to suggest that vintage planes are a great option for many. We must accommodate ignorance in our recommendations lest the ignorant somehow feel bad about themselves.

Pray tell, what do these "know-nothings" do when an unassembled bandsaw shows up in their drive and need to be put together and adjusted and maintained. Is there a service one can hire? Sheesh.

[Shawn Pixley]

Yeah, we got to look out for the "know-nothings." If the least capable among woodworkers cannot make a used plane work, it is indeed folly for anyone to suggest that vintage planes are a great option for many. We must accommodate ignorance in our recommendations lest the ignorant somehow feel bad about themselves.

Pray tell, what do these "know-nothings" do when an unassembled bandsaw shows up in their drive and need to be put together and adjusted and maintained. Is there a service one can hire? Sheesh.

So, I guess that your recommendation in teaching children how to swim is throw them in the deep end and walk away?

Take on this is if someone wants to take up woodworking, let's not have them give up due to frustration on the first try. No one said anything about mollycoddling through all trials and tribulations. In either case, it is neither your or my choices that matters. Only the OP's choice matters to him.

[Sean Hughto]

Yeah that's a perfectly valid analogy. <huge eye roll>

[Sean Hughto]

Hey, I thought of one: If you fear you might drown without a life preserver in knee deep water, perhaps swimming is not the sport for you.

[Marko Milisavljevic]

Speaking of analogies, I think it is safe to say Sean that you've gone off the deep end at this point. Grab some coffee before posting early in the morning.

[Jim Koepke]

286611

Fettling old planes is not for everyone. Just like buying all new tools isn't for everyone.

As long as there are good people in places like here at SMC people will not be alone if they endeavor to bring old tools back to life.

My first experience with working on old planes was not the greatest, but I was able to take shavings and follow up with sandpaper. Now my use of sandpaper is minimal.

I have been to Lie-Nielsen tool events and met another member of SMC who was having a problem with his new plane. I do not recall the exact difficulty, but my understanding is it was a matter of getting it set up properly for use.

Even the lateral adjustment can be intimidating for someone who doesn't know its workings.

So remember, to each their own and MYMV (may your milage vary).

jtk

[steven c newman]

Try a few cheapo planes286612You can't get much cheaper than this little guy, but, add a 3" radius camber to the thick iron, and it is one hungry, #3 sized, Scrub plane. @$10 or so286613Stanley Victor #1104, think I spent $20, COUNTING shipping. Don't look like much, but under all that nasty stuff, there are Stanley genes. A little elbow grease was needed, but I think it turned out usable286614Now about #5 jack planes286619The one in front is a Corsair C-5. I ground an 8" radius to it's iron, for jack plane work, the one in back is a rebuilt Stanley #5. It's iron is still nice and straight across, almost like a long smoother. neither were more than ....$10. 286620That stanley can also plane end grain. i also have an Ohio Tool Co. 05c with a cambered iron ( Laminated iron, at that) ( $15) and a Sargent #414c with just the ends rounded on the iron. There is also a Junior Jack SW lurjing around the shop286621I use this as a small jack/or longer #3 smoother. Works just fineeither way. Most of the Jack planes weren't "Breaking the Bank" sort of things. Hmmm, maybe i need another Jack plane???286622Or maybe just tune up another block plane?

[Sean Hughto]

Yeah, I'm definitely nuts ... I think it was all them laterally twisted cap irons what done it to me.

[Mel Miller]

Yeah, I'm definitely nuts ... I think it was all them laterally twisted cap irons what done it to me.
Maybe it was those improperly ground pointy tips? :rolleyes: :D

Both of those can be a huge problem to some folks.

[Marko Milisavljevic]

If you don't have a grinder, or a file, or a metalworking vise, those are pretty big problems. My first plane was a Sargent jack with a twisted chipbreaker - don't know how or why but obviously it couldn't have been anyone's user. All I had to fix it with was a hammer. I managed to mostly untwist it, while also flattening the "hump" far too much (didn't realize how far was too far), so I used an adjustable wrench to try to bend it back. Did a lousy job with that as it bent in wrong places until I threw it out in disgust. For any who take it for granted that everyone must already have some basic level of equipment or clue when buying their first plane this could be difficult to comprehend so snide remarks are not surprising.

[Jim Koepke]

If you don't have a grinder, or a file, or a metalworking vise, those are pretty big problems. My first plane was a Sargent jack with a twisted chipbreaker - don't know how or why but obviously it couldn't have been anyone's user. All I had to fix it with was a hammer. I managed to mostly untwist it, while also flattening the "hump" far too much (didn't realize how far was too far), so I used an adjustable wrench to try to bend it back. Did a lousy job with that as it bent in wrong places until I threw it out in disgust. For any who take it for granted that everyone must already have some basic level of equipment or clue when buying their first plane this could be difficult to comprehend so snide remarks are not surprising.

Marko,

You make a very important point. If a person does not already have some basic tools and the skills to accompany them, buying old planes in need of restoration may not be a viable route.

It is easy for many of us to forget we grew up with fixing our own bicycles. Some of us may have helped our fathers work on the family car. In some case like my own, our fathers were "mechanics" of various sorts. We were home schooled.

Many grew up in families where their role model was in a field that didn't involve a lot of "greasin' and gruntin'."

Many folks do not possess the experience or patience needed to fuss with old rust hunt finds. For me it seems easy. Though there have been times when the frustration was close to overwhelming, the average payoff has been great.

So Marko you are very perceptive in your statement, "everyone must already have some basic level of equipment or clue when buying their first plane."

Some are ready, willing and able. Some are only setting themselves up on a trail of tears, trials and tribulations.

jtk

[Marko Milisavljevic]

Thanks Jim. It doesn't take a long time for someone who is mechanically adept and interested, but first few steps are quite humbling if you are starting from zero. I grew up in a household where changing a faucet washer meant calling a plumber, and when a bicycle needed any adjustment you took it to a shop. If you grew up in an apartment in a large city to well-educated parents where blue-collar work was something other people did, I can tell you for sure you didn't spend weekends in your granddad's workshop - you went to music lessons or read books. The closest I got to using tools as a kid was knife and fork. This is reality for millions of people. To use tools and build physical things is something I now wish I had started going a long time ago, but it is never too late.

[maximillian arango]

Gary don't be afraid to get an old Stanley especially when your investment is lest than 20 dollars you don't have much on the line. I am assuming that since you are using this to replace an orbital sander you are already a head of where I started off since you have some wood working experience. While buying a brand new one has the advantage of being ready to go with minimal tuning out of the box it does come with the disadvantage of not taking it apart to tune everything up. While time consuming it shows what everything does and gives you a better understanding of how everything works together.

If it wasn't for the internet it would really be dropping a kid in the deep and hoping they learn how to swim, but thankfully it isn't. My girlfriend makes fun of me because I've done more tuning up for tools then actual wood working and I compared the way I was going about it to cars and driving for her. I'm learning how to work on a car and fix it up before driving. After I know how a car works then I can do all the driving I want and because I learned how it works I am better prepared later down the road when I have problems.

I'm no expert when it comes to woodworking but after tuning up one plane I was able to tune up 2 more that I bought with the confidence I gained remade teeth(haven't set them yet) for a saw and cleaned up a few chisels at this point I'm not afraid to buy any woodworking tool as long as it isn't cracked.

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks Jim. It doesn't take a long time for someone who is mechanically adept and interested, but first few steps are quite humbling if you are starting from zero. I grew up in a household where changing a faucet washer meant calling a plumber, and when a bicycle needed any adjustment you took it to a shop. If you grew up in an apartment in a large city to well-educated parents where blue-collar work was something other people did, I can tell you for sure you didn't spend weekends in your granddad's workshop - you went to music lessons or read books. The closest I got to using tools as a kid was knife and fork. This is reality for millions of people. To use tools and build physical things is something I now wish I had started going a long time ago, but it is never too late.

(Sorry to get way off topic here guys, but Markos post caught my attention.)

Sounds like you had a different childhood than I did Marko, but one that mustve been quite fascinating. I wont risk offending you by trying to guess where your family is from - its unlikely Ill get it right. But your story sounds very typical for a well-respected old European family. It would be interesting to hear more about it in an "off topics" post someday.

Take care,
Fred

[Doug Hobkirk]

I started off with this Stanley #3 (http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Commentary/BobsStanley3.html) ..

Later I added a #5 1/2 and a block plane. It is really all that is needed. The rest is just the cherry on the cake.

Regards from Perth

Derek
Beautiful! Simple, and this from the SMC man I think of as the man with a million exquisite planes!

[Tom Tovar]

Hi Gary,

I agree with what everyone says. Of course, don't be afraid to get in your car and take up your hunt at garage sales. Sometimes, we find the most interesting things among other people's junk.

Good luck!

Tom