Framing Saw - Ulmia or ECE

[Eric Gracka]

Hello - First Time Poster:

I am looking for a "general purpose saw" which, can rip, cross-cut, and in particular cut dovetails (small, or large - large being about 3 1/2"). It should be able to cut soft or hard wood.
My Ryoba and J&S Tenon are pathetic. Perhaps, I just don't know how to use them. I've tried differnt techniques with both, but just can't get the hang of them.
I know I'm asking for a lot, perhaps too much. Despite my ignorance, would you choose Ulmia or ECC?

Thanks for your considerations.

[Greg Portland]

Hi, welcome to the forum.

Saws come in different shapes, sizes, tooth pitches, tooth sizes & shapes to match the intended kind of cut. Saws have teeth for ripping or crosscutting & your ryoba should have both styles... were you using the correct edge for the cut you were making? Also, Ryoba's work on the pull stroke (unlike the push stroke of western saws). I'd pick the Ryoba back up and give it another try. For dovetails you may want a dovetail saw which is a rip saw with fine teeth. I wouldn't spend any $$$ on new equipment until your saw technique gets better.

Post back with the exact problems you're having (saw keeps bending, line wanders, can't start straight, etc.) and we can suggest a fix.

[Eric Gracka]

Hi, welcome to the forum.

Saws come in different shapes, sizes, tooth pitches, tooth sizes & shapes to match the intended kind of cut. Saws have teeth for ripping or crosscutting & your ryoba should have both styles... were you using the correct edge for the cut you were making? Also, Ryoba's work on the pull stroke (unlike the push stroke of western saws). I'd pick the Ryoba back up and give it another try. For dovetails you may want a dovetail saw which is a rip saw with fine teeth. I wouldn't spend any $$$ on new equipment until your saw technique gets better.

Post back with the exact problems you're having (saw keeps bending, line wanders, can't start straight, etc.) and we can suggest a fix.
I'm using a S&J 15 TPI backsaw. The problem is that it is incredibly hard to start, and when started, it likes to find a new path to start cutting. It does not like cutting at angles. Crosscuts & rips are very easy. I'm being very gentle and careful with my cutting technique. This is a brand new saw.

[Jim Matthews]

It's possible that your Backsaw has a problem with excessive "set" from the factory.
Matt Kinney has a handling guide for backsaws in the video linked below:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/video/backsaw-exercises-help-you-saw-like-a-pro.aspx

While Tage Frid and Anthony Guidice wrote that the Bow saw was best, I'm not convinced.

If you're cutting large dovetails for a bench, or other study joinery - keeping a bowsaw straight
isn't easier than running a backsaw down to depth, bowsaws are designed to turn.

I sharpen all my saws with more than 10 teeth per inch with a progressively steep cutting angle,
all with "rip" teeth. It's crude, but effective and easy for me to keep track of.

The long and short of it is that the saw starts easily, but cuts a little slower.
So I make thirty passes to get to full depth, as opposed to twenty-odd.



I suspect the problem you're having is that your saw is to aggressively filed,
with the same cutting angle from near the handle right out to the tip of the saw blade.

Search this forum for saw filing, and make sure you're not busy.
There's a lot of material on the subject.

[Eric Gracka]

It's possible that your Backsaw has a problem with excessive "set" from the factory.
Matt Kinney has a handling guide for backsaws in the video linked below:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/video/backsaw-exercises-help-you-saw-like-a-pro.aspx

While Tage Frid and Anthony Guidice wrote that the Bow saw was best, I'm not convinced.

If you're cutting large dovetails for a bench, or other study joinery - keeping a bowsaw straight
isn't easier than running a backsaw down to depth, bowsaws are designed to turn.

I sharpen all my saws with more than 10 teeth per inch with a progressively steep cutting angle,
all with "rip" teeth. It's crude, but effective and easy for me to keep track of.

The long and short of it is that the saw starts easily, but cuts a little slower.
So I make thirty passes to get to full depth, as opposed to twenty-odd.



I suspect the problem you're having is that your saw is to aggressively filed,
with the same cutting angle from near the handle right out to the tip of the saw blade.

Search this forum for saw filing, and make sure you're not busy.
There's a lot of material on the subject.

I presume we're talking about rip saws? What is your rake at the "crude and fine end"? Do you file gullets?