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View Full Version : How do you tell if a house was well built?



Roger Feeley
04-02-2014, 6:47 PM
My daughter is shopping for her first house and I would love to give her a list of thing to look for that would indicate that the builders did their jobs with care (or not). I'm not so much looking for things that are wrong with the house like foundation problems. Those will show up on inspections.

I can only think of a few things and they aren't very good.

Squareness: In a brand new house, this would be fine but houses settle and go out of square a bit.
Plumbing:
-- If there are sweat solders, she could look to see if the plumber wiped the joints or if they have solder drips.
-- She could look to see if there are shutoffs. Some houses in my area have NO shutoff valves. Sheesh!

Electrical: This would take time but we could map out what things are on what breakers. If there are too many things on one breaker, it indicates a lazy electrician.

Exterior window treatment. She can look to see if the surround of the windows is just 1 by's or if there is real molding. This applies to all detail work on the outside.

Overhang. If there is minimal overhang, that's not so good in my book. Especially at the gable ends. I prefer my house to have a hat.

If the house was built recently, she could look for double/triple pane windows. While important, that's a little cosmetic.

If she had a thermal scanner, she could look to see if the insulation is consistent in the house. Query: Could I send her my Fluke infrared thermometer gun? Would she potentially see differences in the interior wall temperature?

These are what I am thinking but I would like to come up with a checklist that she can execute. She is plenty smart but not in this sort of thing.

I should mention that I am in Kansas City and she is in Washington. I still have a personal stake in this besides loving my daughter. I know that when she buys the house and something goes wrong, I am going to be the first phone call. Additionally, my wife and I plan to move to the DC area within a year so ole' dad is going to get to fix whatever's wrong. I would prefer that the raw material be of good quality.

Brian Elfert
04-02-2014, 9:06 PM
The age of a house will change the answers to some of your questions. If a house is say 50 years old the electrical would be different. It would probably have a lot more stuff on a single breaker because that was the way it was done back done. It doesn't mean the electrician was lazy. People didn't use as many electrical devices 50 years ago.

I wouldn't condemn a house's plumbing just because the plumber didn't wipe off solder drips. I would be more concerned about making sure the drain system is done right and all the slopes are correct. I've seen old houses with some really bad slope issues in drain plumbing.

I'm not sure a infrared thermometer would tell much. Now, an infrared camera can easily show issues with insulation.

I've been looking at houses recently and some of the construction on low end new houses just barely meets code. They all use cheap vinyl sliding windows. Sliding windows tend to be drafty due to the design of them.

Rich Enders
04-02-2014, 9:29 PM
Roger,

If you are going to be the go to guy, you better avail yourself of the opportunity to personally check out the place now. If that is not possible then you need an experienced professional to do it for you. No first house daughter has the skills to determine whether a structure is well built.

Myk Rian
04-02-2014, 9:47 PM
If she had a thermal scanner, she could look to see if the insulation is consistent in the house. Query: Could I send her my Fluke infrared thermometer gun? Would she potentially see differences in the interior wall temperature?
Too late for that. Middle of winter will give you the most info. The Fluke won't tell you much.

Lee Schierer
04-02-2014, 9:54 PM
The size of the price particularly in the Washington area bears no relation to quality. Even if it is a brand new house she should insist upon a house inspection and check the references of the house inspector. Also insist upon a septic test, water test, termite inspection and title search.

Electrical: Give her a outlet checker with GFCI tester ($10) and have her check every outlet she sees. If one is bad there will be other problems. Look at the breaker box. If the label inside isn't labeled identify what each breaker serves, the electrician was lazy.

Plumbing: If there are no shut offs next to each sink and toilet the plumber took other shortcuts or didn't know what he was doing. Or worse still the contractor cut costs by not putting them in, which means there were other shortcuts taken to cut costs.

Check the grading around the house. If the land slopes toward the house anywhere, look for a different house or plan on having water issues.

Don't buy the most expensive or least expensive house in the neighborhood. It will be hard to sell later.

Most important is to make sure that her realtor is not the one selling the house she is looking at. The realtor selling is only interested in getting the highest fee possible from the sale no matter what they say to the contrary.

Brian Ashton
04-03-2014, 12:25 AM
It all really comes down to experience of the one looking. There are far too many variables that determine a houses build quality. There is no real way of saying this is what you need to look for unless you actually have the experience. The only honest recommendation I could give is you and or your daughter need to find someone, with the experience, you can trust to give an honest opinion on the house you're interested in. I'm not talking about house valuers or the inspectors you have to get for a mortgage. Most aren't worth the paper their community college cert is printed on. I'm talking about someone who actually is knowledgeable, i.e. a builder, that you can trust their off the record opinion. If you want it on the record it's probably also worthless as they won't say what they really think.

Jeff Erbele
04-03-2014, 2:27 AM
Here the loan companies require a building inspection by a licensed builder inspector. That cost around $450 but is worth the money and is very comprehensive, including the structure, HVAC, electrical, plumbing, roof, insulation, drainage, radon, smoke alarms, Co2 detectors, termites ....top to bottom, inside and out. Typically the buyer pays for the inspection and the seller pays to bring things into code compliance before the sale and loan approval.

In my experiences I disagree with the statement, "most aren't worth the paper their community college cert is printed on"; but understand that could be a true statement in some jurisdictions. I've watched a couple of them do their job and was impressed with what they are looking for and the details they check and document.

I've owned homes in several states and every utility company that served us had an energy efficiency inspection program. When we installed a photo voltaic solar system the city contacted us regarding that inspection. They were offered to pay for part of it with funds from a grant, further provided rebates on energy efficient appliance upgrades. Sometimes the utility companies offer similar programs. Our P.V. Solar system also qualified for a $500 rebate from the city, also under the same grant. At the time, there were three levels of the energy efficiency inspection program and we opted for the most comprehensive one which cost $199. it was also worth the money and included a blower door test, which found the air leaks, many we never suspected or thought of. Things like air coming in thru electrical outlets and around the gap between vent fans and the sheet rock hole they are mounted in. This was in a 6 year old, rather modern house; one we never suspected of such hidden issues. in conjunction with the blower door test they shot the whole house with a thermo-scan camera. It was very obvious where the leaks and other problems were. The inspector provided a good report with photos, recommendations and cost savings. It was easy to recoup the cost quickly with a few minor and inexpensive fixes.

The average person doesn't have the knowledge or tools to do either inspection. I would recommend hiring a professional building inspector and the energy efficiency audit.

Jim Matthews
04-03-2014, 7:19 AM
Go into the house, with as many friends as you can gather.

Everybody stands in the middle of the stairs and jumps up and down.
If doors open and close, in other parts of the house - it's less than solid.

Flush all the toilets at the same time.

Visit the neighborhood, at night, when everyone else is home - without the realtor running interference.

Talk to the neighbors immediately next door. The relationship with them can't improve your house,
but it could ruin living there. Unless you're on your own island, you're sharing a space.

Never buy a home that's the lowest drainage point on a piece of property.

Brian Tymchak
04-03-2014, 8:37 AM
Here's a few I haven't seen mentioned - things I've discovered during my home ownership/shopping experiences:

- Venting (soffit and ridge) for the roof. I like to see every other bay vented, but if there is none, you got problems. My old next door neighbor's young boy had terrible allergic reactions. Found mold in the attic due to no soffit venting.
- patched walls - look at walls from a raking angle. Patches will jump out at you. Patched walls might indicate chronic movement.
- if it has a basement, look at the walls for bowing top to bottom. An inspector may not say anything about it if there are no cracks, but to me it indicates a sloppy/quick foundation build. I had a house with bowed walls (didn't notice it until I pulled down the insulation blanket) but 2 inspectors both didn't say a word about it until I asked. And then they said it was ok.
- look at the roof from outside - if you can notice some sagging between trusses, might indicate the builder went cheap and used thin plywood.
- turn on the heat/AC - go to the furthest room in the house and check air flow - lots of houses built in developments end up with undersized mechanicals.
- walk around near the walls and listen for squeaks - if the house is newer, might indicate a quick/cheap install of subfloor
- go to the basement and smell for mustiness - might indicate poor foundation sealing or a propensity of water build up under the pad. Look for a sump pump and see how often it kicks on. Indicates how quickly water builds up around and under the foundation.
- look for expansion joints / saw cuts in the basement floor. If there are none the floor might crack wildly if it hasn't already.
- do doors swing open on their own - indicates the door was hung out of plumb, or the wall itself is out of plumb.

Mike Olson
04-03-2014, 9:17 AM
go to the basement and take a quick look at the 1st floor joists. there should be no large knots on the bottom of the joists as those will crack eventually and make that floor joist into a 2x4 or worse. (I have only seen 1 house without any knots on the bottom so don't be to surprised, it just points out a future week point in the floor)

Go on a bright day, turn off all the interior lights and close the shades. Look around all doors and windows to ensure you can't see any light coming in.

The flush all the toilets in the house is a good one, but make sure someone is standing near the lowest drain "like a basement sink" to see if water shows up.

Brian Ashton
04-03-2014, 9:31 AM
Go into the house, with as many friends as you can gather.

Everybody stands in the middle of the stairs and jumps up and down.
If doors open and close, in other parts of the house - it's less than solid.

Flush all the toilets at the same time.

Visit the neighborhood, at night, when everyone else is home - without the realtor running interference.

Talk to the neighbors immediately next door. The relationship with them can't improve your house,
but it could ruin living there. Unless you're on your own island, you're sharing a space.

Never buy a home that's the lowest drainage point on a piece of property.


go to the basement and take a quick look at the 1st floor joists. there should be no large knots on the bottom of the joists as those will crack eventually and make that floor joist into a 2x4 or worse. (I have only seen 1 house without any knots on the bottom so don't be to surprised, it just points out a future week point in the floor)

Go on a bright day, turn off all the interior lights and close the shades. Look around all doors and windows to ensure you can't see any light coming in.

The flush all the toilets in the house is a good one, but make sure someone is standing near the lowest drain "like a basement sink" to see if water shows up.


Here's a few I haven't seen mentioned - things I've discovered during my home ownership/shopping experiences:

- Venting (soffit and ridge) for the roof. I like to see every other bay vented, but if there is none, you got problems. My old next door neighbor's young boy had terrible allergic reactions. Found mold in the attic due to no soffit venting.
- patched walls - look at walls from a raking angle. Patches will jump out at you. Patched walls might indicate chronic movement.
- if it has a basement, look at the walls for bowing top to bottom. An inspector may not say anything about it if there are no cracks, but to me it indicates a sloppy/quick foundation build. I had a house with bowed walls (didn't notice it until I pulled down the insulation blanket) but 2 inspectors both didn't say a word about it until I asked. And then they said it was ok.
- look at the roof from outside - if you can notice some sagging between trusses, might indicate the builder went cheap and used thin plywood.
- turn on the heat/AC - go to the furthest room in the house and check air flow - lots of houses built in developments end up with undersized mechanicals.
- walk around near the walls and listen for squeaks - if the house is newer, might indicate a quick/cheap install of subfloor
- go to the basement and smell for mustiness - might indicate poor foundation sealing or a propensity of water build up under the pad. Look for a sump pump and see how often it kicks on. Indicates how quickly water builds up around and under the foundation.
- look for expansion joints / saw cuts in the basement floor. If there are none the floor might crack wildly if it hasn't already.
- do doors swing open on their own - indicates the door was hung out of plumb, or the wall itself is out of plumb.


This is why I say get a trusted builder to give you an off the record opinion (translation: none legally liable opinion) about what they truly think. There is only a few things in these two posts to think about, I could add a thousand more... Any one that hasn't a clue about building a house will be like a deer caught in the head lights - completely lost and overwhelmed.

Brian Elfert
04-03-2014, 10:42 AM
A lot of stuff can be fixed with a little bit of work and money. I wouldn't automatically dismiss an otherwise suitable house just because the ground slopes towards the house. Now, it may be that the slope problem can't really be fixed without the ground level being too close to the siding.

eugene thomas
04-03-2014, 11:28 AM
I think best way to go is have your daughter go look at houses and when she finds one she likes go through with her. Guy work with did that rought and found all kinds of things that some checklist problem would not of picked up on.

Mike Wilkins
04-03-2014, 11:29 AM
I urge you to personally inspect the property yourself. This does not get a lot of publicity, but home inspectors are hired by the real estate agent. Huge conflict of interest there. I have seen inspection reports that totally ignored some glaring concerns with the home, which the buyer ultiimately has to fix on his/her own dime. Exercise caution.

Brian Elfert
04-03-2014, 11:51 AM
No reason you have to use the home inspector the realtor recommends. I am planning to buy a house soon if I can sell my house. For a home inspector I will probably go with a guy who is pretty well known locally and writes up stuff on his website showing what other inspectors miss.

Roger Feeley
04-03-2014, 10:48 PM
Thanks to all for the great ideas. My daughter knows that I am standing by to fly to DC and inspect any house she is serious about. I've also given her my lecture about hiring her own inspectors and plenty of them.

Lee Schierer
04-04-2014, 7:50 AM
I urge you to personally inspect the property yourself. This does not get a lot of publicity, but home inspectors are hired by the real estate agent. Huge conflict of interest there. I have seen inspection reports that totally ignored some glaring concerns with the home, which the buyer ultiimately has to fix on his/her own dime. Exercise caution.
Home inspectors are not hired by the realtor. In New Jersey, the realtor cannot even refer you to one. In PA, my daughter looked up her own and hired him directly.