roughing gouge vs spindle gouge

[Dave Cullen]

Is a roughing gouge just a big spindle gouge, or is it unique some how? I have a 1" spindle gouge that I use for roughing and it seems like a real chore to get a blank round. I'm wondering if a dedicated roughing tool would give me a noticeable improvement.

Thanks

[Scott Hackler]

Dave, the biggest difference between spindle and bowl gouges is the "tang" that goes into the handle. Traditionally, spindle gouges have a flat tang and bowl gouges have a full size, round tang. The spindle gouges with a flat tang are NOT to be used while roughing or turning a bowl (or anything but spindle work) as the tang is a weak point and will eventually snap off when you get a catch. I know this from personal ooops when I first started and didn't know better.

That being said, there are spindle and bowl roughing gouges. For green blanks that are NOT spindle blanks.... you need a bowl roughing gouge. I used a 5/8 bowl gouge a lot, until I bought a Super Roughing Gouge from Doug Thompson. It's a beast and something like 1 3/4" wide with full tang. Expensive, but a massive hunk of steel. I still use the 5/8" bowl gouge regularly on smaller stuff and it works well too.

[Royce Wallace]

There exist two significant differences of the the tools beyond what Scott says. The flutes in a derail gouge is different from the flutes in a roughing gouge. In my opinion they are sharpened at a different angle and thus are presented to the wood differently. As Scott says you can get the large roughing gouge from Thompson and witness a difference in rouging a blank to a round surface as opposed to a detail gouge. You do not use a roughing gouge for bowl turning--as a general rule. If you can get with an experience turner to show you the differences in their uses.

[Dennis Ford]

Assuming you are talking about roughing spindles; a spindle roughing gouge has a different flute shape and is ground differently than a big spindle gouge. It is certainly possible to rough spindles with a big spindle gouge but I find a spindle roughing gouge to be more efficient.

If you roughing bowls, platters etc; any spindle gouge is UNSAFE to use.

[Dave Cullen]

Assuming you are talking about roughing spindles; a spindle roughing gouge has a different flute shape and is ground differently than a big spindle gouge. It is certainly possible to rough spindles with a big spindle gouge but I find a spindle roughing gouge to be more efficient.

If you roughing bowls, platters etc; any spindle gouge is UNSAFE to use.

Thanks for that. Yes, I'm talking about spindle roughing. My spindle gouges are typical shallow u shaped and ground at 45-ish. I've left the biggest one (1") with a straight across bevel and have used it for roughing for years but lately I've been doing larger diameter pieces and it just takes such small bites that it's rather inefficient.

[Mike Peace]

I understand that a 3/4" SRG is probably the most popular size. I have a One inch and a 1 1/8" spindle roughing gouge that suit me fine. If I turned a lot of balusters bigger than say 2 1/2" square I might want something larger. Otherwise I would think a bigger one would just be awkward for the spindle work I do which is rarely larger than 2".

[Reed Gray]

Dave,
There are two types of spindle roughing gouges. The standard type has a half circle flute shape, and there is a Continental/German/Bodger's type gouge which has a ) shaped flute. There are all sorts of roughing techniques that can be used, but are not generally taught. Depending on your comfort level, you can turn the speed up. Most spindle turning is done in the 2000 to 3000+ rpm range, depending on diameter and mass. If you are turning square stock, with anything over about 3 inch diameter it is probably more efficient to take off the corners on your bandsaw. I saw a video of Richard Raffen roughing out square stock with a skew. Not what most of we 'normal' turners do, but he did it really fast.

robo hippy

[Brian Kent]

Scott, what is a Super Roughing Gouge? I can't find anything with that name on his website.

[Thom Sturgill]

Typically SRGs and european (or German) gouges - ')' shaped - are forged, ie hammered, from flat stock and have a flat tang. Bowl gouges are formed by routing the flute out of a solid bar and have a round tang. SRGs are ground flat across the end and have a 45 degree bevel while european or German spindle gouges have a rounded end (swept back wings does not quite describe the configuration.) Because of the tang, these gouges should ONLY be used when the grain is pointing along the bed of the lathe. The German gouge works exceedingly well for large sweeping coves or beads.

Other spindle gouges are made like bowl gouges, but with shallower flutes and are sharpened to a more acute angle, as small as 25-30 degrees for a detail gouge. They can be ground either straight ended (conventional) or with a fingernail (Ellsworth, or Irish) grind just as a bowl gouge can. They should not be used for roughing as the bevel is too sharp.

While SRGs and German gouges should generally never be used on bowls, a bowl gouge CAN be used for spindle roughing though the technique is somewhat different. Instead of sweeping side to side, do a series of cuts into the spindle as you move in steps from end to end. Jimmy Clewes and other demonstrate the technique.

Another alternative is the new tools with removable carbide cutters.
BTW my personal SRG is a 2" Benjamin Best from PSI, I prefer it to smaller gouges, even for roughing finials. IMHO, this is a case for bigger-is-better.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I have the 2" gouge from PSI also. I like it a lot, but not because its big and can take off lots of wood. I don't think it takes off much more wood than my other roughing gouges, but since it is so big, it is very heavy and has lots and lots of surface to rough with before the whole gouge gets dull. It's also pretty cheap.
I also rough with my massive 3/4" Sorby bowl gouge. That thing is almost an inch in diameter. That is a lot of metal.

[Dale Miner]

Thanks for that. Yes, I'm talking about spindle roughing. My spindle gouges are typical shallow u shaped and ground at 45-ish. I've left the biggest one (1") with a straight across bevel and have used it for roughing for years but lately I've been doing larger diameter pieces and it just takes such small bites that it's rather inefficient.

You would be better served to use a 1.25" or 1.5" srg on those larger spindles and grind your 1" spindle gouge with a slight crown or radius across the end. A 2" srg is a very good tool for the same uses. I have a 1", 1.25", and a 2" srg. I probably use the 1.25" the most.

Having a slight crown on the large spindle gouge helps keep the corners pulled away from the stock and provide a better 'safe' zone.

One of the uses for a larger srg besides roughing, is to use the wing of the gouge to get a skew like cut on the straighter sections of a spindle. With your 1" spindle gouge sharpened with a slight crown, it is a great tool for cutting large coves and beads and doing some profile work on the ends of the stock and still manage high stock removal rates.

[Harry Robinette]

I use a 3/4" SRG most of the time but for small things I use my 5/8"SRG from Doug. If I'm doing larger stuff hollow forms and such I use a 2 3/8" SRG from Crown.
I have a set of forged spindle gouges somewhere 3/8,1/2,5/8 and 3/4 that where my Grandfathers but I've only used them once or twice.

[Scott Hackler]

Scott, what is a Super Roughing Gouge? I can't find anything with that name on his website.

Brian, Doug doesn't usually list the Super Roughing Gouge. I don't think he carries many in stock because they are expensive and very time consuming for him to make since they are milled from a solid steel blank. Email him for more info.

[Dave Cullen]

OK, thanks guys. I'm gonna order that 2" beast from PSI and add it to my collection. I almost always take the corners off with a bandsaw before turning a spindle and that helps minimize the tearout but lately I've been doing larger diameter stuff and even with an octagon it hits the gouge hard.

For bowls I start with a round piece off the bandsaw, and my carbide rougher has no issues with that. I'd rather use a sharpenable tool for spindle roughing and spare the carbide cutter the wear.