Joinery planes on a budget

[Matthew N. Masail]

I'm lucky enough to be coming in to the US in May, and see a perfect chance to get some tools I don't yet have. these are:


1. rabbet plane
2. plow plane
3. shoulder plane


I read around and for a rabbet I was thinking a old wooden moving filister... for the others I have no clue..


What would you recommend getting as good users? I'm not interested in something I'll wish I had something better, but decent user friendly tools.


Thanks!

[Jim Koepke]

I'm lucky enough to be coming in to the US in May

The US is a pretty big place. What part will you be visiting?

Depending on where you will be and any willing members to show you the good places to look may make a big difference in what you find.

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

I'm lucky enough to be coming in to the US in May, and see a perfect chance to get some tools I don't yet have. these are:


1. rabbet plane
2. plow plane
3. shoulder plane


I read around and for a rabbet I was thinking a old wooden moving filister... for the others I have no clue..


What would you recommend getting as good users? I'm not interested in something I'll wish I had something better, but decent user friendly tools.


Thanks!

Hi Matthew

I would argue that all these planes are better in metal than wood.

The issue is the accuracy of the fence. One of the reasons I built a bridle plough plane was that this fence is accurate and easy to set up. Wooden fences tend to have arms that are sloppy and only tighten up once set up. However the setting up is fiddly. By contrast, the a Stanley #46 or #78 sets up with much less, if any, effort.

The only wooden moving fillester I can recommend is one I have (and used until I got the LV Skew Rabbet), this being the ECE. This has a skew blade and a brass fence that is attached from below.

If you are set on a wooden should plane, then the only one I wood recommend is the HNT Gordon (go to the website), which sort of defeats your purpose of finding a cheap wooden plane in the USA. The HNT Gordon shoulder planes defy logic to work exceptionally well with a 50 degree bed. They are stunning looking as well.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Matthew N. Masail]

Thanks Guys, I'll be in NJ\NY most of the time, but with family and such I doubt I will have time to go looking around much, rather I plan to order on e-bay\other places.


Derek, I have no reason to go with wood on a shoulder plane, or the others, I just read that using certain
models of the metal ones can be difficult to use. is this true or is it just modern OCD?


Should I consider buying new in the Joinery department (which will set me back probably a year before I can get them), or look for Stanley No. # and # and #?


The only reason I'm not set on LV is the looks.. just can't get past it, I have the Apron plane and love it as a user, but the looks still bother me two years later.

[Jim Matthews]

There are no guarantees as to what will be displayed, when you arrive but
the Englishtown, NJ flea market can be rewarding.

I still have my 8 foot long I beam clamps I purchased there for $48 - all three of them!

http://bestofnj.com/nj-flea-markets

If you're in town during one of the show weekends,
the Stormville Airport North of New York city can be spectacular.

http://www.stormvilleairportfleamarket.com/

[Cody Kemble]

I may have to go to the Stormville show. It's only a couple of hours away. I never heard of it. I have always gone up to Brimfield in Mass. That is a truly massive event. I have bought quite a few tools there.

[Judson Green]

Matthew

You don't like your shop made shoulder plane? It was a thread of yours (http:// http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?189255-Making-a-shoulder-plane-design-considerations) that inspired me to build my own (http:// http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?208755-Shop-made-shoulder-plane).

I've been using it quite a bit latey. I've since cut the wedge shorter and I wish the shavings would eject better, oh well next time.

[Peter Keen]

Have you thought about looking on ebay - I picked up a complete set of Stanley Bench planes there, at reasonable prices.

In terms of the Shoulder Plane, I would keep an eye out for a Stanley 92 or 93.

[Jim Koepke]

Should I consider buying new in the Joinery department (which will set me back probably a year before I can get them), or look for Stanley No. # and # and #?

Well for the Stanley numbers:

Stanley #78 for the rabbet. I have a Record #778 and feel it is a slightly better plane due to two rods for the fence and a better blade adjuster. One of my problems with many of these kinds of planes is one has to constantly check the holding screws for the fence, rods and the depth adjusters. They can come loose during use. Chris Schwarz suggests using pliers to tighten them. I do not like messing up my hardware in that manner.


Stanley has a lot of different plow planes, #45, #46 & #50 for starts, the #55 could be in here but that is a whole other kettle of fish. These Stanley planes can be a PIA!. They have very rough learning curves. See the note above about checking the holding screws. The hardest part of these planes is making sure the blades are sharp. If you are going to use the beading blades, you need to get some slip stones or make your own honing set up. The beading blades need enough flat on the outside to cut a path for the plane skates. They can also get to binding if they are not kept on the same vertical on every pass. Yes, I know this from experience. If the fence isn't set or held correctly they can tend to wander side to side. This often happens with beads if one isn't careful.


My preference is for the Stanley #93 shoulder plane. It is a bit wider and easier to find replacement blades. The one I bought was decent. It only required a little fettling:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?119301-Stanley-Shoulder-Plane-Looking-and-Fettling

The modern ones are likely a better choice in many ways for a shoulder plane.

You may want to contact someone like Patrick Leach at http://www.supertool.com/

If you do go the flea market route, take a few tools and a magnifier with you to help inspect what you are buying.

Good luck and looking forward to seeing what you find.

BTW, I hope you won't be trying to take these home in your carry on luggage.

jtk

[David Weaver]

I would get a proper wooden rabbet plane (like something that would be 20 bucks on ebay - vintage), skip the shoulder plane and the plow plane is sort of the last variable if you're on the fence and have a budget.

A stanley 45 with a few plow irons is probably the cheapest competent plow plane you'll get. Old woody plows are very nice, but finding them good with matching irons is a waiting proposition. The LV small plow is very nice, but it's also very expensive. Some iterations of the stanley 50 are OK, but the side gripping types have trouble with narrow irons. I don't like them.

You need a moving fillister of some type if you don't have one on your list. It's gotten harder to find good wooden ones cheap. Years ago, I got a dried moving filister from FTJ newsletter sales and an hours worth of work on it and it's great, but $75-$100 seems to be the going rate for a decent working fillister plane now and something like a record moving fillister in metal is probably better on a budget. It just needs to have a fence that locks tight and it's nice to have a depth stop that does, too.

I'd order all of that stuff on ebay, just like you're mentioning, or anywhere else you see it on the internet to be shipped to your relatives. You can shop all day in flea shops and at flea markets and find a million useful tools and most won't be anything you're looking for, or will be overpriced, etc.

[Anthony Moumar]

I have a Stanley 78 which I like. It might not be the best rebate plane but you can get them for a good price and they work. If you do go for a No. 78 or similar make sure it comes with the depth stop and fence as I see a lot of them being sold without those parts.

Some other plough planes to look at are the Record No. 43 and No. 44. In my opinion they are easier to use than the combination planes. I'm not sure how common they are in the US but I see them going for very reasonable prices here with all the blades. The No. 43 might be a bit small for some people but it's a great plane.

I can't really comment on vintage shoulder planes because I've never used any. I agree with Derek though, the HNT Gordon shoulder planes are fantastic. I was surprised how well it cuts end grain considering the 60 degree bed angle. They're also very pretty, I got mine in Fiddleback Blackwood and it's definitely my favourite plane to look at haha.

286076

Their priced similar to the other new shoulder planes from LV and LN so if you decided to buy new it's a good option.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Matthew

You don't like your shop made shoulder plane? It was a thread of yours (http:// http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?189255-Making-a-shoulder-plane-design-considerations) that inspired me to build my own (http:// http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?208755-Shop-made-shoulder-plane).

I've been using it quite a bit latey. I've since cut the wedge shorter and I wish the shavings would eject better, oh well next time.i

NICE plane Judson! I'm glad that thread wasn't just a newbie asking all random stuff lol !


Truth is I do like the plane I made, but it's a little fiddely to adjust, I think the very narrow and rough tang of the blade I used is partially responsible for that.
and doesn't eject quite as well as I'd like - that need to be experimented with a little.
you got me thinking I could make another one 1" wide with a more serious blade.... should be much better. thanks

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I'd be tempted to talk to Lee at The Best Things, or Joshua at Hyperkitten - (more Lee for wooden planes and Joshua for metal ones) I still like picking through antique shops and junk stores, but often the prices are terrible, and every time I go, the condition of what I see is worse and worse. It's always great to stumble across something cool, but when you have something specific in mind, it's nice to remove the hassle.

I think Lee's bread and butter is more stuff aimed at collectors (the rare, unique, etc.) than users, but he carries both. Both Lee and and Joshua know their stuff, so you can trust their assessment of a tool, and they won't sell you a dud without warning, unless it's something that's unable to be told until you get into work, and they're pretty straight up about what needs to be done to a tool if anything. They both often have more stuff on their site than they list - I've contacted The Best Things and had them dig some stuff up for me and post it so I could purchase, and Hyperkitten mentions they'll do the same. The prices have been more than fair from what I've gotten from both of them. You could very well make arrangements and purchase stuff from either of them and have it at wherever you arrive when you hit the states, check it over, and bring back with you. Both should stand by their sales and take something back if you're really unhappy.

I don't know what the shipping to Israel would be, but I've often seen Record plow planes go for very cheap on eBay from British sellers, particularly if you're happy with the smaller 043. Sometimes if you get an auction that's going to end at a weird hour, (or at least, a weird hour for all the US eBay bidders) you can luck out and get a great deal, even if you have to pay 20 bucks to have it shipped.

[Matthew N. Masail]

WOW.... so many good responses ! :) you guys are soo so helpful. thank you. I contacted Josh at Hyperkitten and he is very happy to help, seems like a great guy
to deal with. I think that is the best way for me, I don't know enough to hunt on the b a y. I'll keep you posted as to what I end-up with.

One question - how is a rabbet block plane for cutting rabbets? I have a great idea for a magnetic fence and I can get a good new one for rather cheap.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I don't have a lot of experience with one, but my initial feel was that I wanted something a little longer and a little larger. Extra height helps feeling plumb, as well. Again, I'm used to using a wooden plane for this task, though. Given how many folks I've read like the rabbet block for cleaning up power tool rabbets, it can't be a terrible solution. If you're doing any cross-grain work, a skewed iron and a nicker are going to be your friends.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Skewed iron come at a price.... either time learning to do it or to buy a LN\LV.... but a nicker is easy enough.... I could build a LARGE wooden shoulder plane and add a fence.... :)

[steven c newman]

I just got about finished with a Roseboom 1/4" grooving plough plane. @$13.50

I have a Wards #78 rebate plane @ $16.00 counting shipping.

using both right now, seems to work fine for the stuff i do.

Yes the fences can move, IF you get too rough with them. The 78 will move if you try to use it as a handhold. There is a nail hole in the rod for a reason. use a nail, or a small phillips screwdriver, to tighten the rod in place. A little emery cloth rubbed along the rod to help the fence stay put. A pair of pliers can be used, IF you feel the need. Be gentle with the pliers, though.

[Jim Matthews]

I contacted Josh at Hyperkitten and he is very happy to help, seems like a great guy to deal with.

None better. He's decent, has fair prices and is entirely above board in dealing with us.
He has just enough inventory to supply odd requests, not so much that he can't find things.