Pneumatic Sander versus a Festool

[David Cramer]

Hello

Just wondering if it's worth it to go with a pneumatic sander ($150?) versus a Festool? I just happened into a 60 gallon compressor two days ago, so I will end up having plenty of air once I get it plumbed in. The Festools are about $340 with tax.

I'm not going to be using it every day, but just wondered if one of the pneumatics would be a better move? Quieter and less expensive if I understand correctly and I was also told that 60 gallons is plenty of air for 5" pneumatic sanders and that they will last a long time. Any thoughts?

David

[Steve Rozmiarek]

They are only as quiet as your compressor. The only ones I've been around have been used in auto body stuff. They balanced better, and were lighter than any electric powered one that I know of. More powerful too, not that that is much of an issue. Sounds silly, but I liked that they stayed cool. Never used one for wood, so don't know beyond that.

[David Cramer]

Thanks Steve. Thanks for all of the points that you've shared. I sincerely appreciate it. I heard that Festool is raising prices on April 1st and wondered if it was worth it or not, since I am going to have plenty of air to drive the pneumatic sander, if I end up going that route. The noise issue won't be a problem as the compressor is going into a separate room.

Much appreciated,

David

[sullivan mcgriff]

The air ones use a crapload of cfm so I would check that , plus you lose mobility, don't want to use a 300 ft air hose to sand door trim

[John Downey]

I know a guy who runs pneumatic, and he likes it a lot.

On the other hand, you're running probably a 3 HP motor to keep that little air sander powered. They do use buckets of cfm.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

On the other hand, you're running probably a 3 HP motor to keep that little air sander powered. They do use buckets of cfm.

But, it runs intermittently, so probably uses the same power?

[john bettler]

Mirka ceros

[Loren Woirhaye]

I would totally prefer pneumatic if I had a compressor to handle it. Even at 60 gallons, I bet that compressor will run a lot to keep up with a sander.

[Jamie Buxton]

The Festool has good dust collection when you hook it to a shop vac. The pneumatic sanders I've seen have no dust collection. Lots of fine sanding dust in my lungs would be a complete deal breaker for me.

[John Downey]

But, it runs intermittently, so probably uses the same power?

No, even running half the time it would use about 5x the power of that little motor. A true 3 hp oil lube compressor should run about half time or a bit more to run one of those sanders. That's assuming 6 cfm required by the sander.

But when you convert power consumption to $$$$, it still takes a long time to pay off the price difference between the pneumatic sander and the Festool, better than 6 months at 40 hours per week. So from that point of view the pneumatic is a better choice, assuming he already has a good enough air compressor.

Of course, I tend to use much cheaper sanders - under $100 purchase price, so there is no comparison to me - the little electric is far cheaper to run, and when it is also cheaper to buy, pneumatic makes no sense at all. If you have to buy the compressor too, it's just plain lunacy :D

[Randy Henry]

I use Dynabrades. Only way to go for me. I got 2 of them for the price of 1 Festool. I got to test them side by side with the Festool, no comparison IMHO. I have a 60 gallon tank, 5hp unit, that keeps up just fine. Just make sure you put a water separator before your hookup to keep the moisture out of the tool. I put about 5-6 drops of oil in the sander before I use it. I would not use an in-line oiler, as it would blow oil on your work. I will be getting another one soon so I can avoid changing the paper.

[peter gagliardi]

The Festool with the vac will be much cleaner. Also, if you get the Rotex 150, it has at least as much, and I think more power than a pneumatic unit.
All we used to run in our commercial shop was Hutchins and National Detroit for years. I have not been sorry for even a second going to the Festools! My lungs, and the air in the shop are much cleaner.
You know the saying, " You either have dust collection, or you ARE the dust collection!!"

[Leo Graywacz]

Most air sanders use about 15CFM, so that's a lot of air.

I use the Mirka Ceros and on one of my last jobs I had a guy who uses a Festool sander use the Mirka for hours. Said he liked it better than any of the Festools he had and he liked it better than the pneumatics he runs.

Still a spendy sander at $500

[Dave Cav]

I use Dynabrades. Only way to go for me. I got 2 of them for the price of 1 Festool. I got to test them side by side with the Festool, no comparison IMHO. I have a 60 gallon tank, 5hp unit, that keeps up just fine. Just make sure you put a water separator before your hookup to keep the moisture out of the tool. I put about 5-6 drops of oil in the sander before I use it. I would not use an in-line oiler, as it would blow oil on your work. I will be getting another one soon so I can avoid changing the paper.

Randy hit the exact same points I was going to make. 2 Dynabrades, 60 gal 5 HP compressor. Love them. I have a separate drop just for the sanders so I do use an oiler.

[Mike Henderson]

No, even running half the time it would use about 5x the power of that little motor. A true 3 hp oil lube compressor should run about half time or a bit more to run one of those sanders. That's assuming 6 cfm required by the sander.

But when you convert power consumption to $$$$, it still takes a long time to pay off the price difference between the pneumatic sander and the Festool, better than 6 months at 40 hours per week. So from that point of view the pneumatic is a better choice, assuming he already has a good enough air compressor.

Of course, I tend to use much cheaper sanders - under $100 purchase price, so there is no comparison to me - the little electric is far cheaper to run, and when it is also cheaper to buy, pneumatic makes no sense at all. If you have to buy the compressor too, it's just plain lunacy :D

I used the Dynabrades at school and they were great. So I did some calculations on what it would cost to run my air compressor to power a Dynabrade. I agree with John - much more expensive. If somebody else is paying for the air, go for a Dynbabrade. But otherwise, an electric is a LOT more efficient in electricity usage.

Mike

[Loren Woirhaye]

User fatigue is a cost in orbital sanding.

Mirka makes air sanders with vacuum hook ups. They are cheap, relatively.

Wanna save sweat? get a stroke sander.

[Kevin Jenness]

Pneumatic random orbit sanders like Dynabrade are standard in commercial shops. They do use a lot of air, about 15cfm@90psi. They last pretty much forever if you keep them oiled and replace the pads when worn, and they are light and better balanced than any electric ros I have used. With a vacuum hookup they have decent dust collection. The Mirka ceros electric sander has a similar profile and requires less power, but costs $500 versus $150 for a Dynabrade.. If you have a compressor that will keep up, the pneumatics are a good choice. As Loren says, stroke sanders are far more productive for finish sanding, but that is a whole different ballpark.

[Jim German]

You could get both! Festool's LEX line are air powered sanders. They are not cheap though.

[Peter Quinn]

I prefer pneumatics to festool ROS, I prefer dynabrade for pneumatics. They certainly have vacuum ready models that are as dust free as any festool. But quiet? They whine like a banshee, nothing quiet about pneumatics, and there is the compressor. Thump thump thump. Mine is 60 gallons, makes 14.7 scfm's, I still won't use a pneumatic at home. Too noisy, too much power running a 5hp motor at 80% duty cycle. Saying 60 gallons is not significant, it's the scfm's, and most pneumatic ROS will take all of 14 scfm's or better. The dynabrades I've used at work were a bit over $200, so not much cost savings over a 5" festool, though the pneumatics do last seemingly forever and can be rebuilt easily. At home I'm using festool ROS presently, quieter, less electricity, but I don't sand 5 hours per day. Best compromise for my needs. My next sander will be a ceros, the best of both worlds, quiet, light, agile, portable.

[Erik Christensen]

also keep in mind when doing an operating cost comparison - it really matters where you live - here in so cal you are talking 37cents/KWH in summer - I would never run my 5 HP compressor for a sander

[Michael Mahan]

I have photo solar array so electric costs are not a concern I'm in NorCal ,I've had the array for 14 years now & it's more than paid off , I'm going with the air driven sanders & a big compressor

[Jim Neeley]

I have a 5hp Ingersoll Rand compressor in my shop (14.7 cfm @ 175 psi), a pressure regulator dropping hose pressure to 90psi and a 6" Porter Cable pneumatic sander that claims to use 14cfm @ 90psi. Yes, I know, I'd not replace it with another PC.

What I have done is to "exercise" my sander for 1 hour nrealy-continuously (except for the time required to quickly swap paper) and observe what I saw. Starting with a fully-charged tank, the pressure in the tank dropped until the compressor kicked on (it turns on at 140psi and off at 175psi). Continued sanding caused the tank pressure to drop down to about 80psi after 20 minutes. By that time the sanding was noticibly less effective. After a minute or two pause (to let the compressor recover) it was fully charged and I was back to business. This was with me running it as close to 100% of the time as possible.

In practice I change my sandpaper every five minutes or so and, assuming a more "normal" rate of paper change I believe it would have reasonably kept up with me.

My Dewalt ROS draws 3.5A at 120V, a "nominal" 420 watts.
This compressor draws 20A @ 240V, a "nominal" 4800 watts.
There's no comparison in power draw.

That said, the pneumatic sander was much lighter, had less vibration and removed stock faster. It was a much more pleasant sanding experience.

Each person here will have their own preference and bias as to money vs comfort and time. At Erik's peak (summer) cost of $0.37/kwh electricity while sanding would be about $1.78/hr vs about $0.16/hr.

Looking at this one way, its about 11X the price. From another, an hour of sanding is a big sanding job so maybe the $1.60 extra isn't a big deal.

Here our electricity is less than half of Eriks so for me the cost difference is less than a soda.

It's all a matter or personal opinion.

Just my $0.02.. YMMV.

Jim
For Erik, sanding in the summer

[Jeff Duncan]

You might also want to look at the smaller 5" Festool ROS which is only $185. It works much nicer than the other electric sanders I've tried and costs a lot less than the Mirka Ceros. I spent a lot of time using Dynabrades years ago and they are good sanders if you take care of them, but they use a LOT of air. Most commercial shops using them have screw compressors which run continuously. Not something you'd find in most smaller shops. I like the Festool as it's light and quiet, has good dust collection, and an electric brake which is pretty handy.

good luck,
JeffD

[Peter Quinn]

Here is an example, 5" dynabrade, vacuum ready, industry standard, sells for around $200 give or take. Requires 16CFM's, and thats considered "better" than some of their other models! They don't make many 60 gallon compressors that are going to keep up with that. I've used a grizzly pneumatic ROS in a shop, it came as a 6" but swapping out pads is easy. The griz clamps it takes low cfm's and it works very well, especially considering the price of around $50. The one I used has been in service for years and performed flawlessly. So that might be worth a look.

http://www.dynabrade.com/dyn10/content.php?page=catalog

http://www.festoolusa.com/power-tools/sanders/ets-125-eq-random-orbital-finish-sander-571817

http://www.grizzly.com/products/6-Dual-Action-Vacuum-Sander/H8120

[Ryan Lee]

I also have a dynabrade silver supreme and love it. It has the built in dust collection with a hose and bag and works fairly well. I do have to listen to my noisy compressor but the tool is very easy to use.

[Ken Krawford]

+1 for the Ceros. It has a DC power supply so the unit is very light yet powerful. I bought one a couple of months ago and love it. Woodworkers Shop still has them on sale for $350 - http://woodworkersshop.com/.