knew concepts fret saw

[Robert Culver]

Well I finally pulled the trigger and picked up the Knew concepts fret saw, as well as the cocobolo handle from lee valley this week. My first impression of the saw is wow why did I wait so long!Night and day over my old fret saw. The handle is as most say a lot to be desired . I did pick up the replacement handle . Yes its a boat load of cash for a handle and yes you pretty much have to destroy the old handle to replace it with the upgrade. I will however say man does it look and give the saw a whole different feel given that it is cocobolo which at the present time retailing for 50.00 a board ft and it has a nicely machined hunk of brass on it its most likely costly to put together it was however pretty hard to stomach the price tag. Now that its on the saw I don't regret buying it but wow!!!!

285744

[Dave Beauchesne]

I have the 5" saw in titanium, before the birdcage (?) design - I too love it.
Since I do some hack metal work and turn, and have a bunch of suitable exotics, I may give it a go ( handle upgrade ) myself.
What I wanted to say is you only regret spending the dough for the saw and upgrade once; grin on your face every time you pick it up and use it : priceless.

[Robert Culver]

Dave it sure does put a smile on your face :) when you pick it up it has a great feel. the new handle fills your hand where as the stock handle was kinda loose...give me couple hour to get over the sticker shock and I will be a very happy camper lol!!

[Tim Null]

I bought the saw as well, cocobolo handle. But the first time I tried to use it, I over tightened the blade. From then on, I could not get it to tighten up properly and the blade was bowed and not under proper tension. It did not cut well. I finally called Knew Concepts. Lee, the owner answered. After only a few seconds, he realized what had happened. I told him straight away that I was at fault. I had overtightened it and deformed the frame at the point that pulls the blade tight. I asked how much to fix it. He said no charge, that he stands behind the saws even if I screw up. All I had to pay was shipping. I sent him my saw and asked him to fix it please...

A few days later, he calls and says he looked at the saw and discovered the problem. I was using a blade that was too long. This caused me to over tighten it to try to get proper tension. He fixed the frame and it would be ready to ship back. When I got off the phone, I decided to order the proper blades from his site. He shipped back my saw and the blades for the same shipping costs as the blades alone.

When I got the saw back, it was flawless. Perfect tension. Lee went above the call of duty in my book. I was more than willing to pay for my error. Thank you Lee, great job and great saw.

[Robert Culver]

Well then im Really glad I got one !!! nothing like an American made tool with a company that stands behind there product 100% That's awesome I hope I never have to call him but its good to know!!

[Kevin Adams]

Robert, how do you replace the handle? Do you have to drive that pin through somehow? I've been tempted to get one of the nice handles, too, but can't figure out how to get the existing one off.

Thanks!
Kevin

[David Wadstrup]

Kevin,

I've replaced these handles 3 times. The first time I drove the pin through. It wasn't easy, and I was very nervous about damaging the saw in the process -- it required a whole lot of banging. The second two times, I cut off the ferrule with an old, beater chisel as Elkhead instructs (http://www.elkheadtools.com/f/Knewconcept1.pdf), then I split the handle with the same chisel. Once the handle was split and removed, I was able to easily remove the pin with a pair of pliers. This method was FAR easier for me.

Good luck.

[Robert Culver]

I did it similar to how David did it I cut the Metal ferrule and about half way through the handle with a metal cutting wheel on my dremel tool then I was able to split the handle off pretty easy I didn't want to pound on the saw with a chisel and a mallet . I was able to do the whole job with just hand pressure then like David i pulled the pin with a pair of pliers. the handle does come with instructions but i found what I did very effective. The new handle is a nice snug fit so be sure it seats in the grove properly !

[Derek Cohen]

For those with the Birdcage fretsaw, here are some points about a handle to consider when using one:

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/KnewConceptsBirdcageFretsaw.html

My recommendation is that the Bird Cage works better with a longer handle for a two-handed grip.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Kevin Adams]

Thanks, David and Robert, will give one of the new handles a try.

Kevin

[Derek Cohen]

Anyone wanting to make or add new handles to a KC saw, here is a pictorial I put up on my website today:

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/NewHandlesForTheKC.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[David Sloan]

I know this is an old thread but I just bought the aluminum version of the KC woodworker's 5" fret saw. Wonderful little saw. And made in the USA. And thanks Derek, I plan to turn a new handle for it!

[lowell holmes]

I have that saw. It is worth every penny I paid for it!

[Jim Koepke]

Here is another happy owner of a Knew Concepts Fret Saw.

jtk

[john zulu]

I bought the coping and fret saw. Both worth it!

[george wilson]

I have never bveen worried about the weight of an ordinary frame depth fret or jeweler's saw. Most of my career I just used an old fashioned steel frame German made jeweler's saw. I foundthe old ones with forged parts rather than the new sopt welded together adjustable fret saws. Who ever uses broken off blades anyway?(I know some do,but I like to get a decent length of stroke when I'm sawing).

My concern about saw WEIGHT came about when I needed a 24" deep frame on the saw I was to use on the marquetry guitars I got into making(but,I only have pictures of one finished one,unfortunately).

I made a 24" deep fret saw from yew wood. It was as thin on the frame as possible,but was STILL a great challenge for my wrist.to hold it up for hours without letting the saw droop sideways and break the blade. And,I was using 6/0 blades.next to the finest(thinnest) size available. I swear,I wantd to put a hydrogen filled large party balloon on the far end! But,this was all done in public.

The yew wood fret saw encompassed the whole body length of the guitar. The sides were carefully fret sawn into 2 halves: The cuts were so fine you couldn't see them when the marquetry was finished and glued down over the wooden substrate. The marquery vaulted back was clamped down by winding it down with twine so densely that hardly a speck of wood could be seen through the windings. This was the way they clamped vaulted shapes in the 18th. C.. Today,poor Spanish makers who can't afford clamps by the dozen,still use string as a clamping method. It works very well,and is,indeed the only way to clamp something like a guitar back down(Those old vaulted backs).The method clamps every teeny bit of wood to the sides. better than any clamp could do. You have to be careful to not over tighten each wrapping,or the pressure can build up and distort the guitar's sides. Like wraping a string around your finger many times.

A tool collector bought the fret saw off of my bench! So it is gone(and so is the money!:) I lost more tools that way! Really,it was hard to hang onto the tools I was making at home in my tiny shop at that time. Tool collectors frequently were among the crowds that passesd through the shop every day. We had about 3000 tourists a day in the Summer. The ticket punchers kept score. I had more energy back then! The only reason I have my curvey "Nessie" shoulder plane was,when I was unable to resist the price offered,I vowed to make another to replace it. I seldom make drawings,but still had the left over brass sheet it was sawn from. So,was able to reproduce it with no trouble as far as the design was concerned.

I made 2 more yew wood frame saws,but haven't ever gotten around t making the metal bits, such as the jaws that clamp down on the ends of plain end jeweler's saws. I had gotten interested in other projects,such as the viola da gamba I have posted here. It was played for about 45 years by a very fine musician who only recently retired(10 years ago?) That is "recent" to me I guess.

These days I just use one of those simple Swiss made jeweler's saws with the rather soft black rubber handles. Only a round,tubular steel frame,not adjustable. My friend Bill Robertson,a World famous maker of miniatures uses the same saw. He can take his apart so it takes up less space as he travels around doing classes and lectures.

Here are some pictures. The black and white marquetry guitar show only a few pictures. I can't find the rest of them. The cluster of abalone flowers is yet to be engraved, revealing the individual flowers. The saw is a smaller one I also made. But,it is exactly the same design as the deeper throat one I mentioned. The shoulder plane is the one I mentioned. Just too pretty to lose,so this one is the 2nd. one I made when the first one got sold.

[Bob Glenn]

I too had a problem with the Knew Concepts handle. I chose to file the handle into an octagon shape. ( to be published in P/W shop tips soon ) What a big difference! Bob

[Derek Cohen]

I have never bveen worried about the weight of an ordinary frame depth fret or jeweler's saw. Most of my career I just used an old fashioned steel frame German made jeweler's saw.

George, with your skills, you probably could have got away with a can opener! :)

I assume that when you used your jeweller's saw, it was held to saw in the vertical? If so, the weight would not have been emphasised as it does when sawing the waste in dovetails. There, the saw is held to work in the horizontal. That is where the KC saw has an advantage.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[george wilson]

Derek: I hadn't thought of trying a can opener. But,I'll try one this afternoon!! :)

Actually,the long throated yew saw was quite a challenge. I sort of laid the bottom frame member of the saw along my fore arm as often as possible. Fortunately,I have large,strong hands,and a strong wrist. It took many hours to saw out all of those designs,and I wish I HAD a titanium fret saw! But,it wouldn't have looked 18th. C.,of course.

The main challenge was not breaking those exceedingly fine blades. They would snap at the smallest off-tilt of the saw. Took some getting used to. The 18th. C. marqutery cutters had to make their own blades,using watch springs as the material. They left "The rag of the file" as enough set in the teeth to serve as setting the teeth. Must have been a very trying type of work. Especially when the watch springs were made of dubiously even wrought iron,where there could be soft spots that would cause the springs to break soon if actually used in a watch. This is what inspired Huntsman to make more even steel. He invented crucible steel,and went into the business of making the steel after that. Demand was huge for a tool steel of even composition. "Cast steel" was thus born.

If I had ANY sense,f course,I'd have built a wooden marquetry saw like some of the French still use. But,it'd have taken up half of the space in the front of the shop,where we had to keep a running commentary with the public. The ones I have seen in this wonderful book called "Marquetry"(or something to that effect-it's in book shelf in the other room),they build a wooden frame that a large sort of wooden "window frame" looking affair rides up and down in grooves on either side. No doubt very little slop in the mechanism is allowed,or blades would be breaking. This "window frame" has nothing inside it,of course,except the chucks you attach the blade to. The table is a large,very flat,I'm sure,piece of plywood. I don't know how they conveniently reach the bottom chuck to replace blades. Perhaps a large enough removable throat plate is the most likely solution. I need to get the book out and look at it again.The frame slides up and down,and MUST be accurate enough that the blade doesn't do any wobbling to and fro or sideways while it moves. They have a simple treadle to pull the frame downwards,and a wooden or steel bow to pull it back up. I have seen pictures of both types.

Their whole process is going to achieve these days,because when the book was writtem,you could still get DECENT THICKNESS veneer,instead of this 1/40" and THINNER junk they sell these days. If you want to get into marquetry,you might have to make your own veneer. I had a supply of 1/28" veneer from the late 50's when I came to Williamsburg. But,it has largely been used up,except for species that aren't used that much.

These wooden machines must be largely shop built,and are pretty large as they are made for furniture marquetry. They are no doubt much superior to any of these modern "walking beam" action jig saws,where the blade moves in and out as it goes up and down. Those things are useless,as they "sand" the edges of the cut,and widen it very quickly unless they are kept moving constantly. And,cutting very small curves is not what they like to do because of the blade movement. I had a $1200.00 Hegner that I bought very cheap when they were selling off a closed shop. I let it sit there for several years,and sold it. It was MURDER to change the blade on that thing! It did run smooth,though. Some time later,when I thought I was going to get an apprentice, and needed a safe machine, I bought an old model Delta jig saw,where the blade DOES NOT do this. A foot variable speed switch would make it very controllable for fine marquetry. I am not planning to build any more fancy guitars,though,as the market is very limited for them,and I don't need any more instruments . Except,I want to build myself a Telecaster to play around with my Standel amp. I want to see if I can capture the marvelous tone that Buddy Merrill (sp?) did with his Standel on the Lawrence Welk Show back in the 50's. So many variables though,I probably won't achieve it. But,I do like to experiment.

[William Fretwell]

Another use for yew wood! My yew tree I had to take down took itself down last week in the wind, broke off 12 feet above ground. Much safer to take down now! Very white wood inside. Hope I can salvage pieces between the rotten areas.
I think a frame saw would be a great project, especially as I like using them. I use my large German bow saw almost every day, it cuts a straighter line than any other saw I own. I remember when they were $13 at Lee Valley.
Always enjoy your posts George and marvel at your detail. You make me think I should get into brass/metal work a little so I can make my own fixtures. Can you recommend a small lathe for turning small brass parts?

[lowell holmes]

I have the saw and like it. I might make a new handle. I don't know why, maybe because I can.

Not having a lathe, I would have to "whittle" it. Maybe an octagonal handle would be pleasant.
I would not destroy the existing handle though.

[Mike Brady]

In defense of the stock Knew concepts fret saw, the handle that come with it is just fine. It's already an expensive tool, so if you want a different handle for it, make one.......you're woodworkers! There's no prestige in overspending.

[george wilson]

William,I would love to make a yew wood long bow. If you get the notion to split some bow blanks from your tree,I'd love to buy one from you. As you probably know,the billet needs to be part sap wood,and the larger portion should be heart wood. I've looked on the internet many times for a suitable billet,but so many are twisted,or otherwise deformed more than I want. I realize that finding a pretty straight piece of yew wood might be difficult,though.

[William Fretwell]

William,I would love to make a yew wood long bow. If you get the notion to split some bow blanks from your tree,I'd love to buy one from you. As you probably know,the billet needs to be part sap wood,and the larger portion should be heart wood. I've looked on the internet many times for a suitable billet,but so many are twisted,or otherwise deformed more than I want. I realize that finding a pretty straight piece of yew wood might be difficult,though.

Yes I will give it a go George, the billets start out quite large from what I've seen. I will let you know how it goes.
Regards
William

[george wilson]

I wrote replies to some others twice. Both times the postings were lost when I changed the page. Sorry!

[William Adams]

Raptor Archery sells Yew billets for bow staves --- ~40" long, so you need to do a handle splice (or make a take down) --- I've bought other things from them and they're nice folks.

Have you made a bow before? It's an awful lot of fun, though the first couple can be rather trying (didn't get a working, lasting bow until #4 --- fortunately the first two were inexpensive red oak boards from the home center, so no great loss).

[george wilson]

I used to make bows many years ago. But,I never had a yew billet.