Question about replacing roof on fairly new house

[Brian Elfert]

My house was built in 2001 and the roof was installed in October 2001. Owens-Corning produced a bad shingle that fails prematurely on south facing roofs. (There is a class action settlement.) I have shingles on the front side of my roof literally coming apart after just over 12 years. I really need to replace the shingles on the south facing 400 square foot roof.

I have done roofs before, but never one that already had ice and water shield already installed. That stuff is incredibly sticky and might never come off. Would I just leave the ice and water shield alone, put a second layer over top, or have to remove it and replace it?

[Mike Lassiter]

Remove everything and start fresh. If shingles are "literally coming apart" you don't want to put new shingles on top of them. As to the shield, it is there to prevent the ice melting and water backing up under the lower runs of shingles. It also should be replaced as if you remove the shingles it will be full of nail holes which defeats the purpose of it being there. I just replaced my 17 year old roofing on a mobile home. My wife and I did it all. A lot of work for the two of us, but I fixed many issues that I wouldn't have know about had I not torn off shingles. Piece of mind knowing everything is right and should last for decades. We used lifetime warranted Timberline dimensional shingles which are metric and larger than standard shingles. Recommended to remove standard shingles before laying these as the rows mismatch going up the roof and you get ridges or lines running across the roof.

[Sam Murdoch]

Good luck trying to rip up Ice and Water Shield. Though I agree with Mike about removing the old shingles I think you might do lots of damage to the sheathing trying to take up the I&W. I have never done this so I don't even know how to begin and I don't know if adding another layer will create more problems. I hope some pro roofers respond for you. You might get some info of the internets bedsides here in the Creek. Maybe a propane torch? :eek: Not much of an answer - sorry - just commiserating.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I would think that removing the I&WS would damage the sheathing but I don't know that you need to remove it. If you can get the old shingles off without totally distorting the flat surface of the I&WS, I suspect you could leave it in place. I wonder if a heat gun would help remove the remnants of shingles without distorting the I&WS?

[Myk Rian]

I think Brian intends to remove the old shingles.
The shield will probably stay, just add a new layer to it. 6ft. minimum.

[Brian Elfert]

Yes, I would do a tear off. I personally don't believe in putting on a second layer. There is only one row of shingles coming apart. There is another roof above this one and the shingles are coming apart only along the drip line where the roof above drains.

I talked to a roofer I know today and he said it would be impossible to replace just that row of shingles as the shingles above would crack. He said he can get a shingle that matches well enough that he could potentially only replace the top three or four rows. For him to do the whole roof section would be $1850 to $2000. He is going to stop by and look at it tomorrow. I would like to save $1,000+ by doing it myself, but time is of the essence and I don't know that I could find a Saturday to do it in the next two or three weeks with the weather and such.

My home is up for sale and I'm trying to just do enough for it to pass a home inspection. It isn't leaking now. It just looks bad and a buyer would want a price reduction or the roof repaired.

[Mike Lassiter]

Good luck trying to rip up Ice and Water Shield. Though I agree with Mike about removing the old shingles I think you might do lots of damage to the sheathing trying to take up the I&W. I have never done this so I don't even know how to begin and I don't know if adding another layer will create more problems.

The material I removed and replaced is a roll 36" wide that is rolled across the decking and then the shingles nailed over it. It did have a adhesive on the back side. What I removed wasn't exactly the same material but it was a roll laid down under the shingles. Don't understand concern of damaging decking - you will have to scrap the shingles and nails off. HD sells a short handled and long handled tool to remove them that has vee notches on the blade to help get under the nails so when you pry down on the handle you will be pulling the shingles and nails up and off. Not just scraping them off. Fellows - there is NO benefit to removing shingles and leaving the old roll of barrier on the roof as all the nails that held the old shingles on will leave nail holes in the barrier when those shingles are removed. So, with hundreds of mail holes puncturing the barrier it will serve no purpose.

[Brian Elfert]

I think some of the posters here don't understand just how sticky ice & water shield is. It won't just pop off like the shingles do. I'm not sure it would ever come off without a lot of back breaking labor.

I'll ask the roofer when he calls me back tomorrow. I would bet they just put another layer on, but I don't really know. I've stripped a number of roofs, but they were old enough not to have ice & water shield.

[Al Launier]

I would replace all of the shingles, but leave the shield in place. The shield is "supposed" to seal around nails, but with age & pulling the nails out I don't think the holes would seal adequately. I would just add another shield layer on top of the old one, (2) rows for 6" of coverage.

[Mike Lassiter]

I think some of the posters here don't understand just how sticky ice & water shield is. It won't just pop off like the shingles do. I'm not sure it would ever come off without a lot of back breaking labor.

I'll ask the roofer when he calls me back tomorrow. I would bet they just put another layer on, but I don't really know. I've stripped a number of roofs, but they were old enough not to have ice & water shield.

My roof had felt paper down, then the barrier on top of it then shingles. I didn't replace the barrier at the bottom of the roof, but did run it in the valleys. The removed material was hard and brittle that I took off. It popped into pieces like hard candy when running the scrapping tool down the roof. Your point of how sticky could be a issue if it was laid directly on the decking. I used several rolls of felt paper on my roof. One it was recommended by shingle manufacture and I didn't want that to be a arguing point years from now if the lifetime roof needed replacing. I didn't want "faulty installation" to be an issue. I have lived here 18 years now, and replaced the original roof with one that hopefully will last as long as I do. I don't see me doing another roof in my 70's or 80's. Pushing 56 now. I have R38 insulation in roof, and life in West TN. Ex father-in-law roofed houses and I helped reroof my share and nobody had the barrier, nor was it installed then. I don't think it is REQUIRED here.

If the barrier is THAT bad to remove from the decking why wouldn't common sense require it to be laid over felt paper. Barrier would still function as intended, and felt paper doesn't glue itself to decking, so it would be removable.

[Larry Edgerton]

I understand your question and there is only one answer. No, you do not tear off the Ice and Water shield, because you can't. It is not possible on a southern exposure, and unlikely anywhere. Just put a layer over.

Larry

[Brian Elfert]

Thanks for the answer Larry. It looks like I am just going to hire someone to do the roof work. The cost isn't as bad as I thought it might be. I also need to get the work done fairly quickly and that wouldn't be possible doing it myself.

[Brian Elfert]

It turns out upon further inspection that the entire roof of the house needs replacement. There are upper and lower south facing roof sections and the upper section is in far worse condition than the lower section that I was originally concerned about. I climbed up on the roof yesterday and all but one section of the roof has damaged shingles. The rear sections aren't nearly as bad as the front south facing sections, but there are still shingles with sections of missing granules and other issues.

The house is currently on the market. I've talked to the realtor and the plan is to replace the roof after a purchase agreement is in place. It would be hard to do the whole roof myself so I will need to hire a roofing company. If the cost is too high to do the roof I might just pull the house from the market. The roof would probably make it another year or two, but nobody would buy the house with the condition of the roof. A home inspector would put the roof as a huge red flag.

Roofer is coming Monday. He was supposed to come Friday, but we had an inch of snow and ice Thursday evening so it was too dangerous to get up there Friday.

[Tom M King]

With it being that new, I'd just put another layer of I&W over what's there. It's supposed to self seal, but with ripping the shingles off, I can't believe there won't be damage, and it's not That thick enough to make a noticeable difference in how the roof looks. I would try my best to get them to pay for that too, in addition to the shingles.

[Brian Elfert]

With it being that new, I'd just put another layer of I&W over what's there. It's supposed to self seal, but with ripping the shingles off, I can't believe there won't be damage, and it's not That thick enough to make a noticeable difference in how the roof looks. I would try my best to get them to pay for that too, in addition to the shingles.

Who is this them that should pay for it? I'm paying for the roof. I was thinking the shingles are Owens-Corning, but they are actually Certainteed. Owens-Corning has their own class action suit over organic shingles. I should get $560 from Certainteed for the class action settlement which only pays about 5% of the cost of a new roof.

[eugene thomas]

guy work with had a house built in 2002 and in 2011 he got like 1800 but sure they have some magic pro rate formula.

[Tom M King]

Who is this them that should pay for it? I'm paying for the roof. I was thinking the shingles are Owens-Corning, but they are actually Certainteed. Owens-Corning has their own class action suit over organic shingles. I should get $560 from Certainteed for the class action settlement which only pays about 5% of the cost of a new roof.

Sorry, I thought maybe the manufacturer was having to pay the whole price. 5% sucks, even at that age. I won't be buying any from them.

[Brian Elfert]

The class action settlement is for $74 per square prorated based on the original warranty for the shingles. I'm pretty sure my shingles had a 20 year warranty. $74 per square might buy new shingles only, but only if one got the entire $74 per square. I don't see how the class action settlement is any better than the original warranty.

Right now I wish there had been a hail storm so insurance would pay most of the cost. Some people in Minnesota won't buy the longer life shingles because they claim roofs have to be replaced due to hail about every 10 years. I know plenty of people who have had to replace their own roof as they never had hail damage so I don't think houses get hit by hail every 10 years. A friend of mine had his roof replaced due to hail and he got hit by golf ball size hail two days later so insurance had to replace his roof twice in a week.

[Brian Elfert]

The problem I'm dealing with now is none of the roofers will actually call me back to even schedule an appointment to come out for an estimate. One roofer was supposed to come on Friday and rescheduled for Monday. I don't know if he came out or not, but he hasn't returned any calls. You would think these guys would be desperate after a long winter to get jobs lined up.

[Myk Rian]

Reading some of the replies makes me scratch my head. :confused:
Brian has a good handle on things, and is doing it right by replacing the entire roof, with another layer of I&W shield.

[Brian Elfert]

I finally talked to one of the roofers today and he did stop by to take measurements yesterday. He is supposed to get estimate to me yet today. He did say they put another layer of ice and water shield over the original. He thinks I can get another three years out of the roof if I don't end up selling the house.

If I don't sell the house I might buy all the shingles and do a section at a time myself.