New old chisels...

[Scott M Perry]

My new Witherbys arrived today:

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Not a complete set, and they need new handles, but I've been wanting a good bunch of Witherbys for ages. A couple bevel edge chisels, the rest are mortise chisels -1/8, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2 mortise, 1/2 BE, 3/4, 1-1/4 BE, and 1-3/4".

Questions: What's a reasonable way to clean old chisels up? They're not pitted, and it's a complete waste of time, but I'd like them to be a bit more presentable. Flitz and steel wool? Wet/dry paper? Not sure what to do.

Scott

[Dave Cullen]

WD-40 and a red 3M scuff pad.

[David Weaver]

In time, I think you'll find that you like the way they look there better than when they are glammed up. If there's no active rust, there's nothing bad looking.

I wouldn't do anything to them unless you decide later you're going to sell them (and then clean them).

If, however, I couldn't resist, I'd use a true brass wire wheel on a buffer (beware of brass plated steel wire), as it will not do anything to remove any crispness.

[Mike Henderson]

I use a deburring wheel. It doesn't take off any amount of metal but it will clean up rust and stain very well. If there's rust pitting, it will not fix the pits.

If you don't mind me asking, what did you pay for those?

Mike

[Scott M Perry]

Thanks for the tips, guys. I don't want to polish them to a mirror finish, but getting rid of some of the staining would make me feel happy.

Mike, sent you a PM.

[Jeff Heath]

A 3M deburring wheel in your grinder will make short work of it. How high of a polish you want is up to you. It doesn't take long. I like my tools looking good, too.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Ooh, color me jealous! I've got a single similar old straight-sides Witherby, and I love the darn thing.

[Paul Saffold]

Nice chisels, Scott. I have only one Witherby in my motley collection.
It looks to me like you only have one mortice chisel, the narrowest.
The other straight sided might be firmers.

Bob Smalser has a good post in the stickies about chisel types.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?13734-Wood-Chisel-Survey-for-Beginners-(Revised-For-The-Record)

[Dave Parkis]

I'd also use a ScotchBrite pad and some WD-40, but I wouldn't use the ScotchBrite pads from the BORG. Go to an autobody supply house and get the coarsest one they have. I use the 7440's (grey) and they eat rust WAY faster than the maroon ones. If you do go try to get a grey one, make sure its a 7440 as they also make a fine grey one and that would take days.

[Scott M Perry]

Thanks, guys.

The deburring wheel sounds great, but they t'ain't cheap. Can they be had at the borg?

Paul - of course, firmers they are.

Dave - would the 7440 dub the edges? And how would they be on just plain staining? There's no rust on these.

Thanks!
Scott

[george wilson]

Those non woven wheels are about $40 to $50.00 for a #9 hardness 6" diameter one 3/4" wide. They are pretty effective,but can make your surfaces uneven looking if you don't know how to grind accurately. Not that they hog off metal,but you can get some wavyness in the surfaces if you try getting all the crud off the chisels.

[Sean Hughto]

Those all look like paring chisels to me. Witherby steel is definitely nice in my experience. In cleaning them, I would just suggest using gentle grits and having patience. They are yours and they are to be used so make handles you like and shine them up as much as suits you. By the way, do you have another set for bench use; I mean, put into old Stanley parlance, these are 720s - what do you use for 750 work?

[Dave Parkis]

The 7440 will not dub the edges ( at least I haven't noticed any). IME, the ScotchBrite pads only go after the rust and don't eat away any metal. I use them to clean up planes and chisels and I think they work great. I just spray a little WD-40 on the pad and then scrub the bejeesus out of the metal. I used to use the maroon ones and found that the 7440's do a better job in about 1/4 of the time. I will point out that these pads ain't cheap (about $4 for an individual pad), but if you cut it into quarters, one pad will be more than enough for the chisels in the pic.

[David Weaver]

If you don't want to buy something to remove them power-wise because of the price, just use something fine grit wet and dry - start with 400 with a lubricant and work up to 1000 or so.

I hate to take crisp edges off of tools. The makers took pride in making them accurately enough not to have everything rounded over, and they draw your eye.

I don't needlessly clean tools now, though I spent a lot of time doing it when I first got into the hobby. I'd rather see chisels like those plum brown or blued than shiny. But anything is OK as long as the crispness is kept.

[Scott M Perry]

Sean, I have some AI bevel edge bench chisels, some chaff cobbled together, but really not many chisels, and always wanting for a different size it seems.

Dave, are the 7440s available at, say, Pep Boys?

Scott

[Dave Anderson NH]

Like Sean said, the longer chisels are actually paring chisels. Remember that not all straight sided chisels are either firmer chisels or mortise chisels. For most of the 1800s and before the bevel edged chisel we are so fond of was only one of the available choices. I bought a box lot of James Swan chisels a few years back in similar condition to yours. 7 of the chisels were bevel edged paring chisels and 5 were straight sided paring chisels similar to yours. They cleaned up quite nicely and are a true joy to use. If you are going to turn new handles for them, remember to take the time to graduate the handles length and diameters. It really enhances and ties together the set.

[Scott M Perry]

Thanks, Dave - learning a lot more than I expected to. Question: How do the handle sizes graduate? I can visualize them proportional to length, but is there some sort of accepted practice for sizing them?

[Dave Anderson NH]

I made very small increments in both the diameter and length of the handles Scott. I'm at work now, but if I remember correctly the length increase by only about 1/8" at each chisel and the diameter by only 1/16". It's a small change, but it makes a difference and is readily visible when viewing the full set.

[Jim Koepke]

Thanks, Dave - learning a lot more than I expected to. Question: How do the handle sizes graduate? I can visualize them proportional to length, but is there some sort of accepted practice for sizing them?

One way to see this is to look for sets of chisels being auctioned on ebay.

Some makers like Buck Brothers did this. Others like Stanley didn't.

My shop made handles are all over the place but they are made more to fit my hand and how the chisel will be used most. A chopping chisel handle will be a bit different than a paring chisel handle.

Some like the "London Pattern" handle that helps to keep chisels from rolling across a bench. My choice is for comfort. This means finding a different means to keep them from rolling.

jtk

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Some like the "London Pattern" handle that helps to keep chisels from rolling across a bench. My choice is for comfort. This means finding a different means to keep them from rolling.

jtk

Not sure how one would approach making it short of shaving away at a turned shape with a shave or knife or what have you, but I've oft wondered if something akin to the lozenge-like triangular-ish profile of the Lee Valley lifetime screwdrivers (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=32208&cat=1,43411,43417&ap=1) would be comfortable and keep things from rolling away. Certainly, I don't have problems with those screwdrivers rolling away (even on my very un-level workbench in my very un-level back room), but the very comfortable feel about them as screwdrivers may not translate as chisels given one is used in rotation and the other pushed and struck.

I've got an odd notched caul I made for some job or another at one point, and I keep it on the bench when I have a few chisels out, to give them something to keep from rolling away. I also keep little chisels in my dogholes, but you have to remember to keep anything long enough out of the front holes so you don't poke yourself if you're sitting at the bench.

I have a couple of long paring chisels, one with a quite large handle (not framing slick large, but more like the size of the Narex handles, but in a gentler, rounder shape) and the other has a quite broad end where the leather strike washers are. Both are nice in the hand, but more particularly, the length and gentle end allows me to use my shoulder in helping to push, really getting my body behind the work. It's the sort of thing that's been quite nice for paring clean some surfaces and having more control in instances.

[Jim Matthews]

I use Sand-flex from Klingspor.

"Rust erasers" they call 'em.

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[Dave Parkis]

I've only looked in an Advance Auto Parts store and they didn't have much at all. I used to buy the maroon ones at a real autobody supply place and then found the 7440's on Amazon. I bought a box of 10 for around $32. I've tried the sand-flex pads on planes they will work, but the 7440 pad is WAY faster.

[David M Anderson]

A overnight soaking in lemon juice...make sure they are completely submersed..that will take the rust off completely.

[Mike Henderson]

When I first got into woodworking, I was told that Witherby and Swan were the best chisels so I embarked on a multi-year effort to accumulate a set of each brand. For the Witherbys, I put together a set from 1/8" to 1" and for the Swan from 1/8" to 1 1/2". The Witherby's are bevel side chisels, while the Swans are firmers, each marked "Best Cast Steel" or "Best Tool Steel".

Few of these chisels are of accurate width, but they are usually within 1/64" to 1/32". And for those who are nostalgic for antique chisels, the steel in these chisels is not close to the quality of modern steels. Modern steels hold an edge longer, especially when using them for chopping (such as for dovetails). This does not make them "bad" it just means that you have to sharpen more often.

Also, these chisels are longer than modern chisels which make make them "strange feeling" for those accustom to modern chisels. I've included pictures of both the Witherby set and the Swan set. I cleaned the chisels with a deburring wheel, flattened the backs, sharpened them, and made new handles for them (the handles are of a variety of woods, some rare, some common). Because of the superiority of modern chisels, I rarely use them any more.

Mike

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[Dave Proper]

Mike,
Those are really nice looking sets! I am putting together a set of Stanley 720's in the same manner, the base of the set are the five chisels from my dad. Like yours, they may not get much use but they will have a prominent location over my bench.
Thanks for sharing!
Dave

[Sean Hughto]

If one wants a set of swans for bench chisel use, I would recommend keeping an eye out for this sort of model and vintage:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8230/8567613442_c947b5cba0_c.jpg

I have LN's, and the D2 is definitiely superior for choping. I find the O1 of the vintage chisels to be easier to sharpen quickly and to be capable of a finer edge.

[Scott M Perry]

Everyone -

I want to thank you all for your input and opinionis in this thread. It's been educational, and I wasn't expecting to learn so much from this.

Scott