Lathe accessory questions

[Ernie Nyvall]

Okay, don't laugh. Hey, you already did!! I have the chuck below and when the jaws are about half way open, it is like a blunt propeller going around and is a little uncomfortable. It holds short stuff okay, but when the turning gets 8 or 9 inches long, it gets even scarier. So, will the one way talon chuck hold better? They have an insert for that that fits my 1" and 12 thread spindle. Also, do the jaws stick out like the ones below when they are open to the maximum?

Live centers... what kind do you use? Are the ones with the interchangeable tips any good, and which brand?

I appreciate any answers.

Ernie

[Don Baer]

Ernie'
I have only done metal work on a Lathe thus far but I think this is one I can answer. Yes they do turn around like a propeller and can be quie scary. I think that is why most folks in WW don't use that kind of a chuck.

You should be able to get a live center for yu lathe at most WW supply store. I bought mine years ago for doing metal work and am planning on using it. Most are interchangable as long as the taper is the same. I believe #2 taper is the most popular. I could be wrong.

[Gary Max]

I use a Super Nova----there are several other good ones---Oneway---Virmac and others.
In my opinion the safest way to hold wood on a lathe is a faceplate. The bigger the better with the right screws.

[Don Baer]

Thats why I have already taken my 3 Jaw off of my metal lathe and made several face plates.

[Bill Esposito]

Ernie.

Yes, the Oneway and Supernova will hold better than that.

As far as the jaws sticking out, Yes they will. So whenever you can, install the right jaw set for the size of the tenon you plan on using so that they don't stick out.

Another reason to do this and actually size your tenon as close to the minimun size for the particular jaw, is holding power.

The jaws have the most contact surface when they are almost fully closed. That's because to make the set they machine the jaw in one piece, then saw it into quarters. So the jaw is perfectly round (most contact area) when it is nearly closed with only the width of the saw kerf separating the jaws. As you open jaws wide, the contact points move from all along the jaw to just the ends of each individual jaw, because you are expanding the the opening to an out of round condition.

If you want a bigger tenon, get a larger set of jaws.

That being said, there are times when you are going to have to expand the jaws, and for those times I find this a great gadget (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=45612&cat=1,330,49238&ap=1). It is actually just a piece of elastic suspender sewed to form a cuff so you can DIY it, but for $3.75, just add it to your next LV order.

btw, even with the jaw not extended it isn't pleasurable to run your knuckles into the chuck so get or make the cuff . DAMHIKT either.

[Steve Rowe]

Ernie,

Woodworking chuck jaws will have much more contact area than the jaws shown on your chuck and therefore, will hold much better. There are a number of high quality chucks available which is largely a matter of personal preference on the jaws that are available. I have the Oneway Stronghold chuck and it has a pin on one of the jaws which will limit how far outward the jaws will project from the body. There are 2 positions, one is what I will refer to as a safe position (for lack of a better term) and will prevent the knuckle busters from extending past the chuck body. The other position will allow them to extend as far as they can. As one of the other posters indicated, use the correct jaw size for your tenon.

As far as live centers go, I have the Oneway which came with my lathe. It has a replaceable point as well as a cone point and a larger cone which can be placed on the threads in either direction (concave or convex toward the piece). It works great and is high quality.

Steve

[Bill Stevener]

Hi Ernie,

A very difficult subject:

However, when it comes to tools, there are two very critical points to place right up front.

1 - Always buy the Best You can afford.
2 - Never forget that one manufacture does not make the best of everything.

Kind of like whitch lathe is the best, everyone has the best one, "But when they upgrade they are going to buy --------?????

Some folks just don't like chucks period.:confused: If you wish to continue using a chuck, if I may, I would suggest looking into a new one. Many come with a variety of great features. The one I use most often is the Axminster precision 4 jaw chuck. Not selling em, just a great chuck.

Now on to the live center--- Again many good ones, and some not so good ones. I have a One Way live center, a good one, and they do make a good lathe, however products do improve, and a better choice today, in my book would be the Nova. Why-- One Way is a two bearing live center and studies and tests have proven that two bearing live centers are no better than a one bearing live center, when it comes to totally eliminating vibration. It takes three bearings to (0) out the vibration, and the Nova with three bearings under side by side tests, have proven to be the best with (0) vibration... Again not selling them, but if I live long enough, and someone does not come up with something else, an upgrade choice would be the Nova, many add-ons as well and yes very usefull.

Well, as they say, to each his own, Hope this helped some.

Just as a last note: The best tools do not make the best craftsman; the best works come from deep in the heart -- BUT them Good tools sure do help.


Bill.>>>>>>>>>:)

[John Hart]

Sure wish I knew what you guys are talking about!! I have a 4 jaw chuck and figured I had to live with it. And Bill, I know that knuckle impact sensation too. I guess I need more education.

[Dale Thompson]

Ernie,
As has been said, those three and four-jaw chucks were not made for woodworking. They were intended for metalworking lathes where the speeds can be as low as 5 RPM or less. Even when the speeds are higher, the operator is usually remote from the chuck and the "fans" are not a problem. Having started with one of those chucks on my WWing lathe some years ago, there is NO WAY that I would ever use one again. Speeds in the 2,000 to 4,000 RPM range make those things much more than "knuckle-busters". :eek: They can actually take off a finger or two at the knuckle. :mad: Get a Nova, a Stronghold, a Vicmark or ANYTHING but one of those fans. :eek: Seriously, Ernie, dump the thing! They are MORE than dangerous! :eek: ;)

In terms of live centers, the one that came with my PM 3520 has been fine for the last five years so I can't comment on replacements. Sorry. :o

Dale T.

[Bill Esposito]

Sure wish I knew what you guys are talking about!! I have a 4 jaw chuck and figured I had to live with it. And Bill, I know that knuckle impact sensation too. I guess I need more education.
John,

Imagine looking down at your chuck. The outside circle represent the outside of the jaws...or the knuckle buster part of the jaw, The inside circle represent the actual jaw.

If the top one represents a 25mm jaw set, the bottom is a 50mm set. Notice the outside didnt get any bigger, just the size of the jaw. So to grab a larger tenon you dont have to open the jaw as much with the 50mm jaws, and the knuckle buster doesnt stick out. Hope this helps.

http://cerealport.net/woodworking/jaws.jpg

[Ernie Nyvall]

Thanks everyone for your answers. I have busted a few knuckles and punched a hole in the end of one finger. :eek: Most happened sanding the small bowl in the picture where my fingers would slip from the uneven edges and fly across to the chuck.

Thanks again for your help.

Ernie

[Bill Stevener]

Hi Ernie,

Just a little more to try and help --- John to.

A photo of a chuck used for woodturning note, no propeller.

Another suggestion is to subscribe to as many woodturner catalogs as possible. Tons of great info, however at times confusing. One I like, and others may care for different ones, a link to it --- www.woodturnerscatalog.com (http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com) You may well have it, however, be forewarned if you go beyond the cover!!

I am going to try another photo. Can you tell me what make dust collector this chap has. I must get one, his shop never gets dirty???

Bill.>>>>>>>>

[John Hart]

after carefully considering this subject, I think I'm convinced to go for a strict faceplate application in my bowl turnings. I also spent the morning designing what I think will be a good homemade set of jaws for turning the bowl around. It is kind of in the spirit of the Cole Jaws but instead uses a set of eccentrically mounted "tires" to hold the piece in place. I did some calculations on the over-hung load stresses and I feel pretty good about it. I got started on the build today by making a plywood disk (12" OD) and bored a series of holes in it. Made the tires as well. Tomorrow, I'll bore the eccentric holes in the tires and get all the hardware mounted up.

Below is a pic of the progress so far. I'll turn a foot by tomorrow night methinks.

[Bill Stevener]

Very, very interesting John: :cool:

Please****; may I ask what the knife is for???????:eek:

Looks like a good idea, can't wait to see the outcome. (Of your project of course)

Bill.>>>>>>>>:)

[Ernie Nyvall]

That looks like a good idea John. I've seen something similar on this site http://www.aroundthewoods.com/jaws.shtml. He's got a bunch of homemade stuff.

Yea, I know what you mean about using a faceplate, however when turning an endgrain vase, I had problems with the screws stripping. I wanted something that would hold better than that 3 jaw chuck. I got the Oneway Talon this weekend and I think it will do the job for the size turnings I can do on my lathe anyway.

Ernie

[John Hart]

...
Please****; may I ask what the knife is for???????:eek:
...

It's in case this project doesn't work!!:D :D

Just kidding...I used the knife to trim the tires and it got into the picture...Sorta brings some scale to the photo though.

Ernie,
That link you provided looks a lot like the set of Jaws that Jim Ketron made (I can't find the thread) except Jim's are nicely machined aluminum.

I wasn't unable to come up with a "Jaws" type of arrangement so I improvised with the eccentric tire idea. If my rough calculations are correct...(which they rarely are) I should be able to reinforce the standoffs and actually be able to bore an endgrain form. I'll approach this cautiously though by test driving with something simple like a foot and some minor clean-up.

[Jim Ketron]

Ernie I have the Talon Chuck and am very pleased with it I originally got it for the Jet Mini. I now use it on the PM 3520a and It has worked great on everything I have thrown at it! Including the 16+" Baby Bowl I showed a few weeks Back.

Jim

[John Hart]

I worked on my little contraption tonight. Managed to get it put together and picked out an Ambrosia Maple urn as my experimental piece.

The first couple pics show how I originally configured the tires. That was dumb. I had no holding power with the eccentric wheels going in opposite directions. Also had the heights set wrong.

The third pic shows how I moved one set of tires toward the disk surface and added a band clamp. This gave me the holding power and was able to turn the foot at about 1000 rpm. Got some tear out but that's because I'm not good. The fixture held firm.

I'm going to cut a set of stand offs of varying lengths for future shapes. Overall, I'm pretty pleased. Total cost $12.50

[Ernie Nyvall]

Pretty cool John. The price is right too. So let me ask you a dumb question. It looks like you drew and drilled that before you mounted the faceplate. How'd you get the face plate centered exactly?

Ernie

[John Hart]

...It looks like you drew and drilled that before you mounted the faceplate. How'd you get the face plate centered exactly?..

Thanks Ernie,

All holes were determined and drilled from the center point and along the concentric lines. The face plate has elongated mounting holes so when I was ready, I mounted the disk to the faceplate as close as I could get it by eye and snugged the bolts. Then I put it on the lathe and spun it up. While it was spining, I put a pencil on the tool rest and made a mark next to one of the concentric lines. I was off by about 1/32 so I tapped it true and tested with the pencil again. Then I locked the bolts down.

[Bill Stevener]

Hi John,

I had a prity good idea of what your objective was. Quite the jig. I can see it is working out real well for you, as the knife is no longer in the photos. A bit more tooling as you say, and it should hold just about any form. Now, all that is left, is to come up with a name.

Quite a bit of thought.

Bill.>>>>>>>>>>>>:)

[Matthew Clarke]

Ernie,

Oneway's Stronghold and Talon chucks are a quality purchase. When yours arrives, you will notice two of the four locations for the jaws have a slot in them. One of the slots is shorter than the other. The short one limits the expansion of the jaws in order to prevent the 'knuckle-busting' experience. However, it also limits the size of the piece you can hold. I have always used the longer slot and had no problems.

As for a live center, I suggest getting the oneway live center. The point is removable and it comes with a center cone and a bullnose cone. Those accessories have saved my hide on more than one occassion.

Matt

[Jack Savona]

The "Stronghart" Jaws???

Let's brainstorm some more.

Jack (in the jaws of life in Maine)

[Mike Ramsey]

John, have you ever looked at the Longworth Chuck? It is self centering and looks
easy to build. I'm gonna try to build one this weekend. http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/readarticle.pl?dir=turning&file=articles_485.shtml

[John Hart]

Well looky there!! That's a LOT cooler than mine!! Hey Mike...where were you when I was wasting time on my frankenstein?:D

I think I'll join you and build one m'self. Thanks for the link. :)



John, have you ever looked at the Longworth Chuck? It is self centering and looks
easy to build. I'm gonna try to build one this weekend. http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/readarticle.pl?dir=turning&file=articles_485.shtml

[Ernie Nyvall]

Well looky there!! That's a LOT cooler than mine!!

Maybe so... there's just one thing... how to get out of the hypnotic trance after watching that swirl go round and round.

Ernie

[Don Henthorn Smithville, TX]

Ernie, that type of chuck is the only one I have owned and it went with my old lathe when it was sold. Now I use nothing but face plates and glue blocks and am quite happy. With the glue blocks I can turn the outside and the inside and put the finish on without rechucking. After that is accomplisged I part the piece off and use a doughnut or jam chuck to finish the bottom. Love it.

[Mike Ramsey]

Well looky there!! That's a LOT cooler than mine!! Hey Mike...where were you when I was wasting time on my frankenstein?:D


I think I'll join you and build one m'self. Thanks for the link. :)

Got around to building the chuck using the internet instructions except I made
this one with 8 grabs instead of 4. It works purty good but it's easier to adjust
with only 4 grabs but holds better with 8. Cost $3.80 for the bolts at Ace, All other material was freebies.

[Bill Stevener]

Hi Mike,

Really looks great. I was looking at that link today and thought about giving it a go myself. What did you use for the rubber bumpers.

Glad to hear that it works well.

Bill..>>>>>>>>>>>>:)

[Randy Meijer]

For you guys who have been busting your knuckles on the lathe jaws, maybe you should apply the same rules to your lathe as you do to your table saw???

[John Hart]

For you guys who have been busting your knuckles on the lathe jaws, maybe you should apply the same rules to your lathe as you do to your table saw???

That would take the intimate, sensual, fondle-the-wood aspect out of turing though!!!:D
c'mon Randy...I find it hard to believe that you don't get up close and personal.

Looks great Mike!! I've gotta make one now. So, all things considered, do you recommend 4 or 8 holders?

[Keith Burns]

I have to agree with Gary on this one. My chuck collects dust while I use a faceplate with a glue block for 99% of my turning.


"Some days it's not even worth chewing through the restraints."

[Mike Ramsey]

[QUOTE=Bill Stevener]

What did you use for the rubber bumpers.
Bill, I used rubber inserts from a few CGB's (elect S/O cord connectors).
I also have some rubber plugs that we use to plug leaking chiller tubes that i will try later.

John, I like the 8 setup better, but it's really easy to remove 4 if you don't like 8. I would recommend not using wing nuts on the back, instead use black knobs for easier tightening. My fingers are really sore from tightening all those small wing nuts.... Also I think I will
add a couple of peg holes to be able to use a couple of removable post for tightening instead
of the finger holes.

[Randy Meijer]

That would take the intimate, sensual, fondle-the-wood aspect out of turing though!!!:D...

John: It's tough to fondle anything.....wood or otherwise.....without any fingers!!!:D

[Bill Stevener]

Well I gave it a go today and made a Longworth Chuck.

I used 3/4" laminate MDF shelving boards for the wheels. The guide groves are 1/2" W. and capture 1-1/2" x 1/2" OD x 1/4" ID nylon bushings which contain 1/4" carage bolts. The rubber bumpers (grips) are 5/8" cane tips with 5/8" dowels in side, drilled 1/4" to receive the bolt. The bolt, dowel, and the cane tip is all set in epoxy as to form one item. The bolt can turn in the nylon bushing. On the back side I used 1/4" ny-lock nuts, as they will not come loose while turning. I elected not to use wing nuts, or knobs. What I found works real well and quick, to snug up the grips is a box ratchet wrench. Whe whole rig attaches to the lathe via the dovetail ring, to the dovetail gaws on my chuck. Min. and max bowl size = 3" x 15". The nylon bushings allow the chuck to run smooth and free of any snags. I found the cane tips at Ace, $1.89 for four. I am real pleased with the chuck, it works like a charm, no fus, no mus.

Thanks Mike for the link, I wish I knew about this one long ago.

Bill.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>:)

[Mike Ramsey]

Bill,

Great job! That's what I like about this place, already an improvement on the
design! I like the idea of using the bushings, should make it easier to spin.
Where did you get the bushings? My new lathe will be here 8/03 so I will
make a couple more for it and I will use your method :) .

[Bill Stevener]

Hi Mike,

Found the bushings at Lowe's.

Bill.>>>>>>>>>>>:)

[Ernie Nyvall]

Well this thread took on a life of it's own. :)

Hey Mike and Bill, those are great looking jigs you built there. I made a vase with a very thin flared rim and am planning on several more like it. So I was thinking (uh oh)... If I made a jig like this, but on the face disc arcs (say that 3 times real fast) came back and cut a 1/8" recess with a wider bit to fit the size of the rubber baby buggy bumpers, so they would be recessed in the face. I'm thinking this because it seems that the flare mouthed vase I made would try to slip under the edges of the bumpers and it would be awkward to keep that from happening, however would this restrict the smooth operation of the jig an be more awkward. :confused:
Any thoughts on that?

Ernie

[Bill Stevener]

Hi Ernie,

Turn, and or make a round shim just a tad smaller than the rim diameter and just enough to get it up into the grips. This should work. I would not change the design of the chuck, only to say the bushings that I added really help with the action of the same. But your idea may be worth a try. We will never know if you don't try it.

Hope we didn't go amuck with your thread, still on lathe accessories and chucks.

Give it a go, let us know how you make out.

Bill.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>:)

[Ernie Nyvall]

[QUOTE=Bill Stevener] Hope we didn't go amuck with your thread, still on lathe accessories and chucks. QUOTE]

You absolutely did not. It's been a lot of great information. I got everything I was asking for and more. That's what is really great about this place. It's been interesting to watch it grow from a beginners question into information that a pro could use.

Ernie

[Mike Ramsey]

Ernie,
I took that into consideration if i'm right about what you are saying.
Here's a crude drawing of the style bumper i'm using. When i get home
I will take a pic of the actual bumper to show you.