tools needed to sharpen plane iron

[Hristo Asenov]

Hello everyone,

I recently bought a Stanley No. 4 Bailey hand plane from an antiques shop. I'm not having much luck with getting it to shave off much wood, so I think I need to resharpen it. I only have a course DMT (325), and Naniwa Superstones (1k, 5k, 8k and 12k). In everyone's opinion are the DMTs more prone to getting an edge for plane irons? In that case, I will probably need to purchase DMT fine and extra fine stones. (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?208072-DMT-diamond-stones) Would it be a good idea to set a bevel on the DMT 325, and then progress through the Naniwas starting at 1k, or is that too big of a jump? Also, I wanted to ask, is the test to know that the plane is sharpened, generally, that it can slice through arm hair?

[Randy Bonella]

Hi Hristo,
I think you have all that you need. I use a coarse DMT to set the primary bevel and then hit it lightly with the 1000 then again lightly at 4000 do my final with an 8000. Then after that until I need to reset the main bevel I periodically do a light tuning on the 8000. Sometimes I get lazy and skip the 4000. Doesn't seem to make much of a difference.

Test you propose yes and no. Just be real careful you don't cut yourself. Mostly now I just have a routine I follow and put the blade back into the plane and give it a try. Usually takes only a couple of minutes to tune a plane blade and check it out.

For your case not surprising that it won't cut wood. Rehabbing an old plane blade can take a monster amount of time sometimes and in some instances not even succeed, depends on how badly the back of the blade is pitted. Back-lapping the blade takes the most time. The ruler trick helps speed things up but can still take a bit of time. What you need is uber shinny on back and on front for it to cut. The ruler trick allows you to put a small back bevel on the plane blade without having to fully backlap the whole blade. If you don't know the ruler trick use a small cheap / thin pocket ruler laying flat on one side of the stone and then back lap the blade using the ruler as a shim. There are a few video's around that show you how to do this. One thing, do not do this with your chisels makes them almost useless.

Randy...

[Robert G Brown]

I have a Buck Brothers block plane. I had it for 5 to 7 years before I learned how to sharpen it properly. My breakthrough came after reading Brent Beach's site on sharpening. I built jigs similar to his and back beveled plane blades (cutters) and chisels. My sharpening method seems to be constantly evolving. I went from back-bevel to flat back, primary and secondary bevel. I got into vintage hand planes and chisels (way more than I need of each) and had to mechanize the sharpening process - 4x36 belt sander, later a WorkSharp and then a hand grinder. Then I stopped doing the secondary bevel. I just made sure that the back and the bevel were good. I have bought different honing guides or jigs. I have used sandpaper, non-Japanese stones and full set of DMTs. Now I am using two different compounds (the finest and next finest) to keep my edges sharp. With these compounds I use Paul Sellers' method - a flat back and rounded bevel. He uses one compound loaded on leather. I use two different WorkSharp disks. Both of which have worn down 600 grit sandpaper on them which I loaded the compound on. I don't use the WorkSharp for this. I put the disk on my bench and do it by hand. There is no one proper way to sharpen. The goal to to have a sharp edge. Everyone has to find their own preferred way of achieving that.

How I test for sharpness. I put the face of my fingernail perpendicular to the edge. If the edge catches and scrapes a little off the nail - it is sharp enough for me.

[Jim Matthews]

I test a plane with end grain of soft pine.

If a plane can slice the softer stuff, it's ready.
Lots of little things that go into getting a plane to perform;
sharpening is the essential step.

Our very own Jim Koepke has an excellent tutorial:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?114373-Fettling-A-Plane-from-Junker-to-Jointer

To reduce the idea a bit:

Get the back of the iron flat.
(If not completely flat, search David Charlesworth's "ruler trick".)

You raise a burr of steel with each level of grit used.
If you're not raising a burr, you're not grinding to the end of the blade.

I strop as a final step and to touch up a "tired" piece of steel.

The chipbreaker assembly is a crucial part of getting two piece irons to cut well.
See Kees van der Heiden and Wilbur Pan's article for more detail.
(It should be set a good deal closer than most of us thought.)

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/articleindex/chipbreaker-theory-use

Start with the "mouth" of the plane more open than you think prudent, and slowly close it up
until you get the performance you want.

Personally, I think the emphasis on super thin shavings is fool's errand.
The idea of a plane like this is to get material off, without damaging the surface.

Pitfalls that I've encountered in this design revolve around the chipbreaker;
if it's too tight - the blade will be bent and that changes the cutting angle.

If it's too tight, the blade will chatter - the chipbreaker is a spring, in opposition to the iron.

If it's too loose, the adjustment mechanism will move the chipbreaker without affecting
the depth of the iron. It's one of those set up steps that requires "feel"
and there's no substitute for experience, in that.

[Steve Friedman]

You don't say what the plane is doing. Is it not taking any shavings at all? Just making dust? It would help to post pictures of the plane and of the results you're getting.

Although the sharpness of the blade is critical, you may need to do some tuning (fettling) of any plane you get from an antique shop. Lots of excellent articles, videos, and books on how to do that. The most common issues are out-of-flat sole, frog not seated properly to the bed, frog too close to (or far from) the mouth, and chipbreaker not seated flush on the blade. Lie-Nielsen has an excellent YouTube video with Deneb Puchalski demonstrating how to use a thin piece of scrap wood to set the blade on a plane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpQSDI0SNIc&list=PL76ED2FC43576D6AF

Steve

[Jim Koepke]

Hristo,

Welcome to the Creek. Your profile doesn't indicate your location. You may live near another member who would be happy to help you with your sharpening quest. If you are in the Portland, Oregon area send me a private message (PM) if you would like my help.

Jim Matthews posted my plane fettling thread. Here is another on one aspect of sharpening:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?158373-My-Camber-Blade-Round-Tuit-Finally-Came

The first post mentions four tests one can use for sharpness evaluation. There are also a few other bits of sharpening information provided by more members.

Another aspect of sharpening is just how sharp a blade actually needs to be. For my smoothers I like to be able to take super thin shavings. It would be a waste of time trying to get the same result on my scrub plane or a mortise chisel.

It isn't often now, but I used to go from 80 grit sand paper to my 1000 stone when rehabilitating old blades. Once a good bevel has been established it is not often that a coarser grit than a 1000 stone is needed to refresh an edge.

So there shouldn't be any difficulty in moving from the DMT 325 to a 1000 stone.

Your sharping awareness will change over time. What I thought was sharp five or six years ago is quite different than what I want for sharp today.

The stones you mentioned should be fine for getting a sharp edge. Before investing in more stones it might be a good idea to invest in a honing guide. These can also have problems, but they can be a great help to many.

My preference is freehand sharpening. Just because it works for me doesn't mean it is the best way for others.

There are many ways to achieve a sharp blade, the challenge is to find what works best for you.

jtk

[Hristo Asenov]

Here are some pictures of the hand plane:

http://imgur.com/a/nKG6Q

From the first picture you can see that it is actually able to produce some shavings off a straight piece of wood. However, the second and third picture show the piece of wood I'd like to use it on in order to make it straight. I cut it with a coping saw and the saw did a really bad job of maintaining a straight line. In my attempts to test for sharpness, it looks like it does not cut through paper, not unless I try to make a slicing motion. It also doesn't cut hairs. I don't think it's totally dull though, since it can produce shavings on a planed piece of wood. What do you guys think? I can post more pictures if needs be.

[Jim Koepke]

Here are some pictures of the hand plane:

http://imgur.com/a/nKG6Q

From the first picture you can see that it is actually able to produce some shavings off a straight piece of wood. However, the second and third picture show the piece of wood I'd like to use it on in order to make it straight. I cut it with a coping saw and the saw did a really bad job of maintaining a straight line. In my attempts to test for sharpness, it looks like it does not cut through paper, not unless I try to make a slicing motion. It also doesn't cut hairs. I don't think it's totally dull though, since it can produce shavings on a planed piece of wood. What do you guys think? I can post more pictures if needs be.

I am a bit confused. Are the shavings off the wood in the first picture?

That looks more like tear out from going against the grain. The smooth part with the pencil line makes me think that was their before the plane was used.

The next pictures look to be end grain. To plane end grain with a bench plane takes a very sharp blade. That is why cutting end grain on soft wood is one of the tests for sharpness. An extremely sharp blade will make shavings and not dust.

There are a few ways to avoid breakout of the edges when planing end grain. One is to plane from the edges toward the center. Another is to cut a chamfer on the finish end to lessen the chances of blowing the end out. Some folks will clamp a piece of scrap to the end as a back up piece to help prevent break out.

Don't feel bad, it took me awhile to figure out this one. A low angle bevel up plane works great at this. Even with a plane better suited for end grain, it still has to be sharp.

For me it is always easiest to start with the plane adjusted to not take a cut. Sighting down the sole of a plane doesn't work to well for me. Then the depth is adjusted until the first shaving starts to appear. When the shaving first appears the plane is used across the full width of the blade to check the lateral adjustment. For me it is easiest to accomplish with a very light cut. Take a shaving from the left and one from the right side of the blade. It should be possible to tell by rolling them in your fingers if one is thicker than the other. Adjust accordingly and remember if your blade is cambered there might not be any shavings at the edges with a very light cut.


I cut it with a coping saw and the saw did a really bad job of maintaining a straight line.

Thanks for that, I always thought it was me doing the bad job. :D

Good luck with this and keep trying and come back with more questions if they come up.

jtk

[Jim Matthews]

I see a potential contibutor to the problem; the panel you're working on.

If you've purchased a pine panel from one of the local HD or Lowe's or whatever warehouse store,
the wood panels are thrown together by machine - without attending to grain direction.

You have a panel where one board will allow the plane to slice smoothly, right to left adjacent to
a board in the same panel that requires you to plane in the opposite direction.

It's a mistake I've made, and leads to the next in our series:
* Determing grain direction *

Think of it like this, you want your boat to travel smoothly, across the top of the waves.
If your craft (plane) is traveling the same direction of the waves, the ride (surface) should be smooth.

If your boat (plane) is traveling INTO the oncoming waves (against the rising grain direction), it's rough going.

Refer to the following reprint of Chris Gochnour's excellent article,
the "Inspect the edge" photo illustrates the rising grain pattern you must identify.

http://www.startwoodworking.com/post/determining-grain-direction

I would hazard a guess that your plane is sharp, but the choice of wood has you flummoxed.

If you can get a class with Bob Rozaeski in Swedesboro, NJ - he'll shorten your learning curve.
http://www.logancabinetshoppe.com/contact.php

[Sandra Mart]

Hristo,

Welcome to the Creek. Your profile doesn't indicate your location. You may live near another member who would be happy to help you with your sharpening quest. If you are in the Portland, Oregon area send me a private message (PM) if you would like my help.

Jim Matthews posted my plane fettling thread. Here is another on one aspect of sharpening:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?158373-My-Camber-Blade-Round-Tuit-Finally-Came

The first post mentions four tests one can use for sharpness evaluation. There are also a few other bits of sharpening information provided by more members.

Another aspect of sharpening is just how sharp a blade actually needs to be. For my smoothers I like to be able to take super thin shavings. It would be a waste of time trying to get the same result on my scrub plane or a mortise chisel.

It isn't often now, but I used to go from 80 grit sand paper to my 1000 stone when rehabilitating old blades. Once a good bevel has been established it is not often that a coarser grit than a 1000 stone is needed to refresh an edge.

So there shouldn't be any difficulty in moving from the DMT 325 to a 1000 stone.

Your sharping awareness will change over time. What I thought was sharp five or six years ago is quite different than what I want for sharp today.

The stones you mentioned should be fine for getting a sharp edge. Before investing in more stones it might be a good idea to invest in a honing guide. These can also have problems, but they can be a great help to many.

My preference is freehand sharpening. Just because it works for me doesn't mean it is the best way for others.

There are many ways to achieve a sharp blade, the challenge is to find what works best for you.

jtk

Nice info Jim http://watchfree.me/11/w.png

[Steve Friedman]

The plane fettling and sharpening threads are excellent. From your pictures, a couple of issues. In the first picture, besides looking like you're planing against the grain, it looks like the blade is extended too far and digging into the wood.

Also, trying to straighten out that coping saw cut with a #4 can be a bit of a challenge. It can be done, but you need to mark a line that you're planing to. Otherwise, you may end up with a smooth edge that is not at the right angle, concave, or convex. That cut edge isn't straight enough to give enough support to the sole of the plane.

Chris Schwarz has a great DVD "Coarse Medium and Fine" that talks about progressing from tools that make rough (aggressive) cuts to tools that make finer (finishing) cuts. The #4 can be pretty versatile, but ideally you need to get closer to your desired cut line with a coarser tool before pulling out the #4.

Finally, from the picture, the primary bevel of the blade looks a little beat up. When buying a used tool, it's probably a good idea to re-establish the primary bevel (at least some of it) before honing a micro bevel. How about a picture of the bottom of the plane with the blade protruding as you were using it?

Steve

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Everyones added excellent info here, I'll just add, you've probably got everything you need to sharpen. I had/have the 1k/5k/8k superstone set - not what I'd buy again having used other things, not my favorite stones for sure, but there's no reason you can't get a great, sharp edge with those stones. If the blade you're using is already in working shape, and you don't need to totally re-work it, there's no reason you can't start on the 1k stone. If you attend to the edges before they get incredibly dull, I would often just start with the 5k and go to the 8k, but the 5K isn't a real aggressive stone, so often starting at the 1k is a good idea.