First experience with Veritas MKII honing guide

[Eric Schubert]

So, I got sucked into the Lee Valley free shipping shindig going on, and my package already made it to my door today. Eagerly, I ripped open the box to check out my new chisels and the Veritas MKII honing guide that I plan to use to sharpen them. The chisels look great, and are lighter than I had expected. But I suspect I'll enjoy them quite a bit. The Veritas MKII, however, was what I was really after. I've tried sharpening some blades before, and it's always been difficult to really get a good edge on them. I knew this would really help me become consistent in my sharpening efforts. Since this is my very first experience with it, I thought I'd share. I apologize for the long post. Hopefully it's helpful.

Firstly, let me express that I'm a complete and total noob to true woodworking. I had woodshop in high school and absolutely loved it. But that was 15 years ago, and much of what I had done was forgotten, aside from vague happy memories and a couple of surviving projects. (I still use my large round cutting board made of maple and black walnut for pizzas!) But I don't have much experience building projects at home, away from a fully-equipped shop environment. I don't have a planer, jointer, bandsaw, tablesaw, drill press, etc. All I have are a few handheld power tools and some basic hand tools. The set of Narex Classic Bevel-Edge and mortise chisels I ordered are my first-ever woodworking chisels. And I just acquired a few old hand planes that need sharpening (or even a blade, for that matter). I've never used these tools, let alone sharpened them. So, having something like the MKII could be critical for my success.

Before beginning any work on my Narex chisels, I figured I would try this MKII out on my only other chisel; one with which I didn't mind experimenting. It's a 3/4" bevel-edge chisel from Ace Hardware that could very-well be 40 years old. And not only was it old, it was dull as a butter knife. I had some work cut out for me...

The Veritas MKII came with excellent instructions. And once I figured out how to use it, the honing guide was very easy to use. Here are the steps:

Attach the "registration gauge" to the guide and choose an angle setting with the stop.
Slip your chisel or blade into the guide with the side (if the sides are parallel) against the fence on the registration gauge, and the tip against the stop on the gauge.
Clamp in the chisel or blade with the tightening screws.
Remove the registration gauge.
Have at it!

It really is quite simple. The gauge, stop, and markings really make it easy to set this tool up consistently. My only issue is that the chisel can slip a bit if you're putting sideways pressure on it during sharpening. The clamp bar isn't textured, so there's not a ton of friction holding the blade in place, even when the screws are really tight. Just don't put excess sideways pressure against the tool and it'll be fine.

I started with a marble plate and sandpaper with spray adhesive holding it to the marble. First I worked on flattening the back of the chisel. I did a rough flattening using up to 220-grit paper on the entire back, but got lazy and only finished through 600-grit within about 3/4" of the edge. I'm not sure if this is a problem or not. If it is, I'll go back and really polish up the back of the chisel. Then I worked on the bevel. It took a LOOOOOOOOONG time, even with 100-grit sandpaper, to get the bevel set. This blade had a convex bevel and needed some help. But once that bevel was good to go, the rest of the progression moved quickly. I went through 100, 220, 400, 600, and 1000-grit paper. Then I moved on to lapping film. (I got this for my straight razors.) The progression was 12, 5, and 3 micron films. I have a 1-micron film, but was too lazy to grab it.

In the end, the chisel came out REALLY sharp! It's not quite to a point where I could shave with it, but I think it's definitely ready for some chopping. I still need a little more practice sharpening, and it's possible that I need to do more work to really make this chisel razor-sharp. The first thing to try is probably putting a micro-bevel on it.

Overall, I really like the Veritas MKII. It's going to help a LOT as I start into using hand tools that require sharpening. I feel it'll pay for itself in no time at all. I'd highly-recommend it to anyone new to sharpening, or someone looking to get consistent results. It's an excellent tool, and I'm looking forward to getting my Narex chisels in tip-top shape using it.

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On a side note, I also discovered that I'm not a fan of my Naniwa 1K Superstone. I don't know why, but I just couldn't hit the whole bevel with that stone. It would polish up most of the bevel face, but it kept missing the edge. I didn't have that problem on the lapping film and marble. I've had some serious difficulty sharpening my straight razors on the Naniwa, too. I'm starting to question if the stone is the problem, rather than my technique. Either it's not a high-quality stone, or how I use it isn't a good technique on that stone. Perhaps it might be time to move on to harder natural stones.

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Lastly, I figured I would share some pictures of this old chisel that I worked on tonight. Here it is! The Ace Hardware 3/4" bevel-edge bench chisel. It was my grandfather's. When I got it, this thing had paint and grime all over it. I used a wire brush on my dremel and cleaned it up a bit. Now I think it looks pretty good! Notice in the second photo, you can actually see some letters reflecting on the bevel from my phone as I took the photo. The last photo shows the back of the chisel. It looks more scratched than it is because of the lighting. But you can tell where I concentrated my efforts along the edge.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Tools/AceChisel01_zps4c0505fb.jpg http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Tools/AceChisel02_zps153b6507.jpg http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Tools/AceChisel03_zps61c0d47b.jpg http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Tools/AceChisel04_zpsb890a385.jpg

[Shannon Brantley]

How long does the sandpaper last? When I first got into hand tools (not too many years ago) I went to a Lie Nielsen demo at Highland Woodworking. The sharpening technique they showed involved adhesive back sandpaper and it looked great. Just rip off a new piece when it loses its abrasion. What I didn't consider is that the guy sharpening wasn't footing the bill for that expensive sandpaper. Can you get a few uses out of one piece?

[bob blakeborough]

You shouldn't really be putting a lot of pressure on the guide while sharpening. Try and think of it is exactly that... Just a guide. I used to try and muscle everything while I was sharpening and it took a bit to figure out, but really I find now I get tools sharper, faster by using less pressure. Less pressure also reduces or eliminates accidental skewing of the blade. As a matter of fact I am now at the point I really only use a guide for re-establishing a bevel.

I do not regret a minute learning to sharpen with the MKII, but I am happy that I have slowly moved over to freehand for most of what I need to do...

[Prashun Patel]

"Try and think of it is exactly that... Just a guide. "

This is a very rich and true statement.

You may (as did I) find that your plane blades are tricky to sharpen squarely. This is caused by uneven and excessive clamping pressure on one side of the blade. I learned from others that you should tighten each knob in turn, a little at a time until both are snugged but not too tight.

Adhering to Bob's advice not to put a lot of pressure on the roller will prevent your blade from wiggling loose.

[Eric Schubert]

You can absolutely get a few uses or more out of one piece of sandpaper, especially if it's the better-quality type. The cheaper stuff will fall apart or the abrasive will start crumbling off after a bit. I used a red sandpaper for my coarsest grit (150), but I don't remember what brand it was. It's a deep, ruby color, not the rusty red-orange color some sandpapers have. I can find out what brand that was, if you want. But it looked similar to Norton "RedHeat". It came in sheets, though.

After that, I moved into Norton 3X for the 220, and on to Norton wet/dry for the 400, 600, and 1000.

Bob, I agree that lighter pressure is key to getting the sharpest edge. But I did use quite a bit of pressure to remove material quickly as I set my initial bevel. I had to take off a fair amount of metal to get a continuous flat bevel. Fresh sandpaper and pressure was the quickest way to make that happen without a grinder (I don't have one.). After the initial bevel was set, the rest was easy. Only light pressure is needed, at most, to get the bevel to the next grit.

I wouldn't be surprised if I end up honing freehand in the future. But this bevel was rounded over and needed a guide to get a good, flat surface.

[Eric Schubert]

"Try and think of it is exactly that... Just a guide. "

This is a very rich and true statement.

You may (as did I) find that your plane blades are tricky to sharpen squarely. This is caused by uneven and excessive clamping pressure on one side of the blade. I learned from others that you should tighten each knob in turn, a little at a time until both are snugged but not too tight.

Adhering to Bob's advice not to put a lot of pressure on the roller will prevent your blade from wiggling loose.

That's good to know. I had noticed that they mention tightening the screws alternating just a bit at a time on each side, and that makes sense. Clamp too hard on one side, and it'll throw off the angle just enough to cause issues. That could be especially true if you go to resharpen it later on and do it differently, it won't hit the bevel properly all the way across and you'll have to reset the bevel again.

[bob blakeborough]

After you tighten the screws just lightly snug and even, do a few light strokes and check the edge. If you see it beginning to skew slightly one way, all you have to do tighten the opposite screw a bit and test again. This will straighten the blade in the jig if you were off a little.

The first few tries I had to play with it a bit like that, but pretty quickly you get a feel for the screw tightening and now I can pretty much set it perfect the first time, every time...

[Steve Friedman]

On a side note, I also discovered that I'm not a fan of my Naniwa 1K Superstone. I don't know why, but I just couldn't hit the whole bevel with that stone. It would polish up most of the bevel face, but it kept missing the edge. I didn't have that problem on the lapping film and marble.

Keep in mind that it's probable that the flatness of the Naniwa probably doesn't match the flatness of the marble. It doesn't really matter which one is flatter. The important thing is that they are probably not flat relative to each other. That may not make a difference when free hand sharpening, but it does when using a honing guide.

A simple solution (in addition to checking the Naniwa for flatness) would be to raise the honing angle a couple of degrees when moving from the abrasive to the stone. You should quickly get a small micro bevel along the edge of the chisel.

I would also echo the comments above about using the MKII only as a guide. That's especially true when trying to use it with narrow chisels. In my experience, the MKII doesn't hold narrow chisels that securely, so that any lateral pressure will cause the chisel to skew.

Steve

[Eric Schubert]

I just assumed it would be similar to tightening lug nuts on a wheel. Alternate tightening and try to keep them as even as possible. That seemed to also help eliminate any shifting of the blade, since there's even contact across the top and bottom of the blade.

I plan to give this a try with a couple plane blades that I have, possibly even tonight. It should be interesting to see how it behaves with a wider blade.

Thanks for all of the advice, guys. Since I've started here, everyone's been nothing but kind and generous with their advice and experience.

[Eric Schubert]

Keep in mind that it's probable that the flatness of the Naniwa probably doesn't match the flatness of the marble. It doesn't really matter which one is flatter. The important thing is that they are probably not flat relative to each other.
...
A simple solution (in addition to checking the Naniwa for flatness) would be to raise the honing angle a couple of degrees when moving from the abrasive to the stone. You should quickly get a small micro bevel along the edge of the chisel.

That's interesting, since I actually used the marble tile with sandpaper to flatten the Naniwa stone. I've noticed that it's a very soft stone, and it can wear quickly. After a bit of honing, it can develop a bit of a dip in the stone, especially if you don't use the entire stone. But I didn't even think to raise the angle to just make a small micro-bevel. The MKII can do that really easily.

[Mike Henderson]

My only issue with the MkII jig is using it with narrow chisels. It just does not hold the chisel in place very well - it's way too easy for the chisel to move sideways a bit, which means you are now honing at an angle (sort of honing the chisel into a skew). I wish LV would do something to the jig to give is better side support for narrow chisels. Some jigs clamp the chisel from the sides, which holds narrow chisels in place while you hone them.

I've reached a point where I don't use the jig very much any more. I grind a primary bevel on the WorkSharp, then freehand a secondary bevel.

Mike

[Eric Schubert]

I wonder if maybe a rubber block might help. Something similar to the chisel's thickness that can kind of hold it against the "fence". There has to be a way to make it easier with narrow chisels.

[Mike Brady]

There was a hint awhile back that LV was developing a side clamping Mk.II fixture for narrow blades. The time frame apparently has gone from "within the year" to "within a year". What is it about honing guides that makes new ones so late to the party?

[Tom M King]

I whet by hand if I'm in the middle of working on something, but if a new bevel has been ground, I use this jig.

I used the rig that attaches to the front to establish the distance for various angles that I use. Once I had a wide chisel clamped right by the jig, I used it to set a limit block on a shop made gauge like you see a lot of people using for Eclipse guides and such.

The bar that clamps the iron or chisel in doesn't free float. I would like it better if it did, but it works fine like it is. I put the chisel or iron in the jig, turn it over so I can see that the bar is touching on both sides of the iron or chisel, but not really tight yet. I then slide the iron or chisel against the stop block in my made gauge, and tighten the little knobs.

This goes a lot quicker than fumbling with the contraption that attaches to the front.

Make sure the two stop microbevel knob is in the top position to start, and you are ready to go.

My helpers, who are hopeless at honing by hand, can sharpen something as good as anyone with this jig. They know to use it, and I know they will hand me something sharp.

[Brian Holcombe]

I find a guide is great to put a micro bevel on a blade, beyond that I find them a hinderance. Reason being is that I maintain my edges with a 6k whetstone and doing so by hand allows me to fine tune where the pressure is being applied, to keep plane blades square and get a razor edge quick.

Not trying to pee on your birthday cake, and hopefully it doesn't seem that way.

My advice, for what it's worth, put a micro bevel on your bench chisels and mortise chisels, flatten the back if you feel you need to, but i think it's probably fine just to lean on the front of it when you are taking off your burr. Save your efforts for paring chisels, where an incredibly sharp edge and perfectly flat back is noticeably helpful.

[glenn bradley]

You shouldn't really be putting a lot of pressure on the guide while sharpening. Try and think of it is exactly that... Just a guide.

Bob speaks true. It took me awhile to realize I didn't need a death-grip on the thing. Like golf, snooker or the shooting range, practice leads to a controlled yet relaxed grip. I have had one for a number of years. I use it in conjunction with stones, scary sharp plates and my Worksharp as well. I think you will come to enjoy it. As to how long abrasive film lasts, we're not talking about regular old sandpaper here. The 3M abrasive film lasts quite awhile. I tried another (automotive maybe) product but, the backing was so thick (not really thick at all) that the "padding" it supplied fouled the sharpening path. The hard back micro-abrasive films don't give me any trouble but, that's just been my experience. YMMV.

[Winton Applegate]

Fun looking old chisel !
I had no idea ACE Hardware had been around so long.
Thanks for the education.

As far as chisels go you may find hand sharpening is a good way to go. Chisels aren't as critical as plane blades.
You may or may not know I am "Mr. Sharpening Jig Man" I love my Mk II so that may seem like a 180 to some but chisels have such an imperfect tapered surface that yes often they slip around in the jig.

There is (are) other jigs that work better on chisels because the jig grips along the sides of the chisel.

I can' hardly wait until you get the jig on some plane blades. You are going to be impressed I think.

Still worth struggling to learn hand sharpening in every application so you really understand the process but then , in my view, you can relax and use the jig.

The quality of the edge geometry and is always better with the jig other wise machinists would hand sharpen their milling cutters etc. rather than send them out to a specialist.

That is contrary to what many will tell you but then contrary . . . is how I seem to role (roll).

[Kees Heiden]

The quality of the edge geometry and is always better with the jig other wise machinists would hand sharpen their milling cutters etc. rather than send them out to a specialist.



That's not a very strong argument. Milling cutters are made from carbide which is hard to sharpen. There are more edges on the same cutter, so their geometry must be very consistent to have them all do the same amount of work. Powertool bits don't need to be shaperned every odd hour, so it is at least viable to source out this job. And finally I doubt that the majority of machinists still have experience with sharpening these things. They are used to throwaway bits.

The common woodworking sharpening jigs are especially good at one thing: maintaining an exact angle. But that is one of the least important aspects of sharpening a plane blade or chisel. So there is no reason to believe that you get always a better edge with a jig then without one, as soon as you're practised enough in freehand sharpening.

[Prashun Patel]

I have no issue with the mk ii on narrow chisels. With narrow chisels, the nuts exert a lot of force on the chisel, the small chisel moves the fulcrum farther from the nut vs a wider blade. So you can get skewing, unless you are gentle with your adjustment, or tweak one side or the other to compensate as mentioned above. Also sometimes using the yellow or green roller setting will allow a further blade projection which allows more accurate registration with the right angle attachment.

[Eric Schubert]

I can definitely agree that hand sharpening can be faster than dropping a blade into a jig and setting it up, but the jig works for good, repeatable results, especially when you first start out like me. Once the bevel is established, you can keep the bevel flat on a stone by feel. When I tried hand sharpening initially on the chisel, I just found myself rounding over the bevel and making a mess. I know I just need practice, but I'd rather get the tool sharpened and spend my time actually using it. But all of this frustration was just when setting the initial bevel on an old tool that needed a lot of help.

The chisel is sharp, for sure. I did test it out on some pine, and it was able to start paring without any real issues. It's not as sharp as it could be, but that will come with experience and practice sharpening.

I also nabbed one of my plane blades and tossed it into the MKII. This blade was for my old Craftsman/Sargent low-angle block plane. I set the bevel at 25°, and then tried out the micro-bevel feature on the roller. It seemed to work pretty well, although it seems you need to be careful that you keep light pressure on the blade to prevent from taking more off on one side than another. But this actually ended up putting just a touch of camber on the blade. I popped it into my LA block plane and tried it out. As with the chisel, it was sharp, but not scary sharp. It was able to take nice shavings and leave a smooth finish on some pine. Overall, I'm very happy with my first attempt with a plane blade.

A couple of side thoughts...

I've tried polishing up my straight razors (for looks, not for sharpness) using the automotive abrasive that you mentioned, Glenn, and it's basically a really fine abrasive compound that's applied to a pad. It's definitely NOT sandpaper or abrasive film. The films are much easier to use for honing. And they definitely last a very long time.

I also don't really find that setting up the MKII takes all that long. It's not as fast as just hitting the stones by hand, but it only takes a few seconds to slip on the gauge and clamp in the chisel or blade. The amount of time I spent setting bevels far surpassed the setup time, making it miniscule and negligible at best.

And Brian, you're definitely not peeing on my birthday cake. My birthday isn't for a couple of months. :D I understand what you and others are saying. But much of what you guys do now has been learned over time. Trying to jump right in to hand sharpening is not only intimidating, it's also difficult when you don't really have any experience sharpening things or anyone to stand there with you and show you how to do it. (Let alone all the tools that you guys have. I don't even have a grinder.) You guys are my eyes, ears, and knowledge base. It can be hard to duplicate something when miscommunication is so easy using only typing, just like sending emails. Pictures are great, videos are even better. But nothing beats someone there in-person to show, guide, and teach you.

So, it's not like I'm blowing off the guys saying I should learn to hand sharpen my tools. But I'm going to stick with my honing guide until I learn more and gain some experience sharpening my tools. It's just easier to get consistent results as I work up from "total noob" status.

[Brian Holcombe]

I understand your feelings of intimidation, they will pass over time. The trick, IMO, to 'scary sharp' is to maintain the edge with a 6k or higher stone by hand. It's easy and quick and to some degree very similar to using a strop.

Use it for a day or two for planing/chiseling operations, then use the above method, get a burr a couple times, swipe the burr off and you'll find once you get the hang of this it's very very sharp and quick. Most people who look at my tools think that I spend half the day polishing the edges, where really I take 15 minutes and maintain the edges while drinking an espresso.

the guide is great to own, they're fantastic for getting back to square one and setting micro bevels, they are bad at maintenance because they can't find the flat the way you can by feeling for it.

[Prashun Patel]

Eric, these threads always devolve into "freehanding is better than using a guide." I am definitely aspiring to that someday. However, I can tell you that it's not the only way to get quick, repeatable, usable, wonderful, happy results. In fact, my own method (guide + Worksharp + stones) works for me so well, I am having trouble disciplining myself to learn freehanding. The method that works easiest for you is the one you will use most often; and that's what it's really about.

[Dave Proper]

Prashun,
I agree that these threads always seem to devolve into "freehanding is better than using a guide.". I would agree that free handing is easier than using a guide but would like to see someone demonstrate that the edge is any "better" freehand than with a guide. I lap my blade's backs on my diamond stones and know they are flat and true. As to the bevels, my Worksharp is my friend. I have watched guys free hand plane blades and chisels and read numerous descriptions but it doesn't work for me. So often you hear "if I can do it, anybody can!". We'll good for them but it does not mean everybody can do it. Do I wish I could do it? Heck yes, but I am content with a system that works for me. The "free handing is better" mantra just serves to set some of us up for frustration and acts as a barrier to newbies.
Dave

[Steve Friedman]

Eric, these threads always devolve into "freehanding is better than using a guide." I am definitely aspiring to that someday. However, I can tell you that it's not the only way to get quick, repeatable, usable, wonderful, happy results. In fact, my own method (guide + Worksharp + stones) works for me so well, I am having trouble disciplining myself to learn freehanding. The method that works easiest for you is the one you will use most often; and that's what it's really about.
Well said!

Maybe I'll get the knack of freehanding some day, but once you get into a groove, honing guides don't take that long to set up. For me, it's definitely quicker than having to spend the time fixing a rounded edge. Besides, acquiring honing guides can become a slippery slope of its own. I don't want to publicly admit how many I own, but the MKII is not even close to being the most expensive! And I'll still probably be one of the first to buy the LV side clamping attachment and L-N's new guide as soon as they become available.

Steve

[Daniel Rode]

I have the MK-II guide and I've used it for some time. I also have an eclipse/vice style guide. I much prefer the latter. Smaller chisels are difficult to keep square in MK-II guide and it's more cumbersome to use and setup. The problem I has with my vice style guide was that it was hard to get the chisels to set into the dovetail shaped clamping area. I just got a new one (from LV, ironically) and the chisels seem to lock into place with less trouble.

For plane irons, the eclipse style guide is even better. Because it has a small wheel in the center, it's pretty easy to add a camber to a plane iron. This is not simple with the MK-II. A different wheel is available for to MK-II form cambering but I've never used it and don't want to spend the money.

When I regrind I like to use a guide to reset everything to square and a precise main bevel angle . When I hone and re-hone, I've been mostly doing it freehand. I've also been experimenting with using a single convex bevel which can't be done with a guide. FWIW, I think I prefer the flat primary + micro bevel but the jury's still out.

Either way, I'm probably going to retire the MK-II entirely and maybe sell it. It's too sophisticated and too bulky for me. IMO, guide or freehand, sharpening should be simple and routine.

[Eric Schubert]

Well said!

Maybe I'll get the knack of freehanding some day, but once you get into a groove, honing guides don't take that long to set up. For me, it's definitely quicker than having to spend the time fixing a rounded edge. Besides, acquiring honing guides can become a slippery slope of its own. I don't want to publicly admit how many I own, but the MKII is not even close to being the most expensive! And I'll still probably be one of the first to buy the LV side clamping attachment and L-N's new guide as soon as they become available.

Steve

I think it's like anything else. We all like our shiny toys! ...ahem... I mean... shiny tools which are absolutely necessary to do our work. :D

[Chris Fournier]

These guides are not required. Slow methodical development of "touch" will get you great results including creating the microbevel. If you say that you use a guide to sharpen twist drill bits my opinion changes.

[Chris Parks]

These guides are not required. Slow methodical development of "touch" will get you great results including creating the microbevel. If you say that you use a guide to sharpen twist drill bits my opinion changes.

And that is exactly the problem raised above, you can do it so everyone else must be able to do it. Some people can play the piano and some can't!

[miguel bernardo]

the Veritas MKII is a very nice piece of kit, but over time i moved away from it to a cheap eclipse style guide (i have two of those, the one i got from Stu´s shop is very nice and can accommodate a wide plane blade easily). i just find it quicker to set up, gives me better feedback and worrying about skewed edges is a thing of the past. on top of that, it´s always easier to override the thin wheel and put a camber on your blades - no need for a special wheel.

best,
Miguel.

[Rob Luter]

I have good success with the MKII, but I really only use it to establish the final edge. I flatten the backs on a diamond stone, then hollow grind everything on a low speed wheel. I use 3M abrasive film to lap the backs and hone the edges using the MKII. The abrasive film lasts a good long time as I'm not using it for the "heavy lifting". I lined the MKII clamp with a thin sheet of PSA backed cork and it grips even the narrowest chisels. I free hand only when touching up edges, as I prefer the precision the jig offers.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5511/12016227873_7c0db0c76f_b.jpg

[Eric Schubert]

Nice, thanks for sharing, Rob! Looks like a nice, organized setup. I have to agree that a steady hand will produce a better edge. And what better to do that than a honing guide? It never changes angle and reduces the chance for error, since it always holds the blade steady.

I agree that the film will last for a long, long time if you keep it lubricated with water. It doesn't clog like sandpaper. And thanks for sharing the tip about the cork! I would imagine that a thin, waterproof rubber would do the trick, as well. The blade will bite into the material a little bit for grip.

I'm eyeing up getting a grinder to help with the heavy material removal when I set an initial bevel. I still plan to use sandpaper/film to finish with. That will likely change down the line to natural stones or better synthetics.

[Curt Putnam]

I have good success with the MKII, but I really only use it to establish the final edge. I flatten the backs on a diamond stone, then hollow grind everything on a low speed wheel. I use 3M abrasive film to lap the backs and hone the edges using the MKII. The abrasive film lasts a good long time as I'm not using it for the "heavy lifting". I lined the MKII clamp with a thin sheet of PSA backed cork and it grips even the narrowest chisels. I free hand only when touching up edges, as I prefer the precision the jig offers.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5511/12016227873_7c0db0c76f_b.jpg

Where and how did you line with cork? Did it change the projection and therefore the honing angle?

[Michael Ray Smith]

Thanks for all of the advice, guys. Since I've started here, everyone's been nothing but kind and generous with their advice and experience.

:)

And you opened a topic where you will get all sorts of advice! Sharpening is something we all have to deal with, and it happens to be strongly subject to personal preferences. If there are more ways than one to skin a cat, there are at least 10 times as many ways to sharpen your skinning knife. So here are my personal preferences, with no criticism for anyone who does anything or everything another way.

I, too, am a fan of the Veritas MK-II. I wish I had just bought it first before I bought a lot of other jigs. I stared out buying a granite plate, a whole bunch of wet/dry sandpaper, and an eclipse-style jig, and I almost never use any of that stuff anymore. As others have pointed out, the weakness of the Veritas MK-II is with narrow chisels, especially narrow bevel-edged chisels, and it doesn't work for larger pigstickers. But it's all I use now for plane blades (including my No. 8, which won't fit in some other jigs) and most other chisels. I even use it with my WorkSharp 3000, equipped with a table attachment; I hardly ever use the built-in angle guide for using the bottom side of the sharpening disk. For narrow chisels and many pigstickers, I use Richard Kell's simple little jig that clamps from the side. For very, very short blades, I have the Lee Valley small blade holder; I find it awkward to use, but sometimes it's about the only way to sharpen a short blade, such as a spokeshave blade, to a defined angle. Despite my preference for jigs, after I get a good bevel on a blade, I often sharpen freehand until I decide it's time to go back to a nice, fresh bevel with a good defined angle. An exception is bevel-up plane blades -- I don't handsharpen them because I like to know exactly what the angle is. There are some things, however, that won't work with either of those two solutions. Cigar shave blades are one example; I use a wooden dowel with diamater slightly larger than the inside diameter of the blade, with glued-on sandpaper. For drawknives, I think there may be one or two jigs available, but I sharpen them freehand, either holding the knife by one handle with the other handle tucked into the crook of my arm or against my shoulder -- with the blade AWAY from me so I don't slice my fingers to shreds -- or with the knife clamped at the edge of a workbench. For abrasives, when I'm using the worksharp, I usually pay for the convenience of their pre-cut sandpaper, but sometimes I cut my own. If I'm not using the WorkSharp, I use diamond stones almost exclusively. However, I DON'T use the diamond disks that you can buy for the WorkSharp. The ones I tried didn't last very long, certainly not long enough to justify the cost. And one more sharpening preference -- I usually don't use secondary bevels because I don't see that they do anything for me.

[David Weaver]

Prashun,
The "free handing is better" mantra just serves to set some of us up for frustration and acts as a barrier to newbies.
Dave

I was frustrated by freehanding when I was a very beginner, and found a lot of favor in the method charlesworth teaches. I don't think it's too much of stretch to suggest that most people who do a LOT of work by hand (as opposed to just chiseling and smoothing) will find favor eventually in getting rid of the jig and moving to harder stones. No shame in doing it either way, but don't discount moving to freehand at some point, it does interrupt the work flow a little less.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Go to the "Tools for Working Wood" website and pick up the "Maurice Frasier" DVD on sharpening with oilstones.

[Michael Ray Smith]

I wonder if maybe a rubber block might help. Something similar to the chisel's thickness that can kind of hold it against the "fence". There has to be a way to make it easier with narrow chisels.

Yeah, maybe. There are fundamentally two types of jigs for chisels -- those that clamp from the sides and those that clamp from the top. The ones that clamp from the sides obviously do a better job keeping the blade straight -- until they hit a blade with sides that are not parallel. The advantage the MK-II has over other top-clamping jigs is that it has a way to get the blade straight -- of course, getting it straight to begin with doesn't mean it will stay straight, and it doesn't deal well with a blade without parallel sides (or, more precisely, any blade for which you don't want the edge to be at right angles to the side used to register the blade in the jig). Like I said in another post, I use two jigs -- the MK-II most of the time, and occasionally Richard Kell's jig that clamps from the side, and there are still situations in which neither of those two solutions work well.

[Eric Schubert]

Great advice, guys!

Michael, thank you for taking the time to share your experience and preferences. It makes sense why there are so many opinions on sharpening, as there are many different methods and tools to get the job done.

David, I agree that I'll likely try freehanding at some point down the road. It's definitely a bit faster. Once a bevel is set, I would imagine that freehand sharpening is much easier.

Tony, I'll have to check that video out. Thanks for sharing!

[Tony Zaffuto]

Eric, TFWW also has one for waterstones. I'm a tool junkie and my shop is full of "aids" to take care of tasks that, once learned, are much quicker when done by hand. I will not say one way or the other is better, but for me, a concave grind, my washita (free hand), my hard arkansas (free hand) and once in a while, my strop. Quickly becomes second nature. I also forgot to add, that for narrow widths, I forgo the concave grinding.

[Jerry Thompson]

I have several sharpening jigs including the MK ll. I saw how many people were hand sharping and I have gone that way and have never looked back.

[Winton Applegate]

If you say that you use a guide to sharpen twist drill bits my opinion changes.

Ha, ha,
See how different we are ?
I have the very nice Drill Doctor and like it and use it at home.
ESPECIALLY when I have a pile of drill bits to sharpen and especially if several of each size.
BUT
I don't have one at work.
So
I just pull out two small paddle diamond files a coarse and an extra fine that I have in my back back at all times . . .
. . . you never know when you may have to save humanity
again
by sharpening something IN THE BATTLE as it were.
I have no prob sharpening a twist drill by hand EVEN THE SPLIT POINTS.

Is the geometry more perfect on the Drill Doctor ?
oh sure.
Does it matter for most work ? Especially with hand drills?
noooooo

I just started in on the same old response but deleted it.
What's the use.
I know what I know from experience
and I am sure the free handers will say the same.
all I can say is have fun at what you do.
I do.
In case you think I am yoking :
First photo is my Drill Doctor. The contraption at the top right of the photo is supposed to be a drill bit sharpening jig you use on a bench next to a bench grinder. I spent toooo much time trying to get anything worth while out of it.
nada
hence my learning to grind drill bits by hand and hone them by hand. No prob except kind of time consuming and not perfect. and to do a decent job a jewelers loop and or visor is pretty useful especially when you spend as much time as I do staring at this computer screen.
With the Drill Doctor it is MUUUUCH easier and more precise and the angles are all repeatable.
I prefer that when I got one with in reach.
same goes for the plane blades.

The little black tool roll at the bottom of the first photo is what I carry to get by. Two diamond paddles, a tiny square diamond file and a regular little steel file but I try to use it with great care to keep it sharp.

http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/noydb1/IMG_2554_zpsb900485f.jpg (http://s801.photobucket.com/user/noydb1/media/IMG_2554_zpsb900485f.jpg.html)

I could even touch up the milling cutters in the next two photos with that roll.
Would I if I had a precision grinder with in reach nooooo.
In the second photo the large ball end mill is high speed steel and so is the tiny 1/4 inch two flute mill cutter next to it. The third cutter from left to right is solid carbide. The diamond paddles could touch that up as well.

http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/noydb1/IMG_2555_zps3e3fe8a1.jpg (http://s801.photobucket.com/user/noydb1/media/IMG_2555_zps3e3fe8a1.jpg.html)

The last photo shows a rather stout hole saw. It has carbide teeth like a modern table saw blade.
All sharpen-able with the diamond paddles.

Better done with a precision grinder.
A sharpening jig if you will.
Same for the plane blades.

http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/noydb1/IMG_2556_zps4b6582ec.jpg (http://s801.photobucket.com/user/noydb1/media/IMG_2556_zps4b6582ec.jpg.html)

[Winton Applegate]

oilstones.

Only good for O1 steel.
My A2 blades, Lee Valley Varitas and LN, literally polish the oil stones and I bought the best I could lay hands on. $200 for my translucent Ark alone.
For those who wanna try I recommend these guys for oils stones I researched the hell out of it on line and that was the best I could come up with other than track down old used stones on Ebay etc.
http://www.danswhetstone.com/stone_grades_101.htm

PS: it is very obvious when the stone is cutting; when I sharpen O1 there is black swarf on the stone and it wipes off. When I try the A2 there is no discernible black swarf and the stone gets shiny where I run the blade back an forth. Then it is over to the diamond plate to get the stone back in usable shape which is time consuming to say the least. The hard Arks are . . .
well . . . hard
and
not hard enough all at the same time.
To understand that study sharpening stone friability and all those other cool guy terms.
Very interesting.

[Chris Parks]

Er, how do you hone drill bit? having hung around machine shops for more years than I care to remember I have never seen anyone do more than sharpen one on a grinder.

[Mike Brady]

Winton, I concur on your comments and conclusion regarding natural sharpening stones from the state Arkansas: my experience exactly. There was recently a thread similar in nature to this one on another popular hand tool forum. Some folks there were touting natural stones as if they were just introduced last week and were the way to go at the expense of all others. In my many years of sharpening hand tools, my natural stones never served me well for the modern tools I acquired that were equipped with A-2 cutters. They were great for my vintage planes and modern O-1 blades and there was something about that that seemed appropriate. Water stones and scary sharp sandpaper could handle any of the above, and man-made stones such as the India stones could do the rougher lapping tasks on just about anything. To those who say their arkys are universally adequate I must respond you are lucky to have specimens that are up to the task and let us know when you are ready to part with them. Maybe those who say the good quality natural stones have long ago been yanked from mother Earth might be right.

[Tom M King]

Only good for O1 steel.
My A2 blades, Lee Valley Varitas and LN, literally polish the oil stones and I bought the best I could lay hands on. $200 for my translucent Ark alone.
For those who wanna try I recommend these guys for oils stones I researched the hell out of it on line and that was the best I could come up with other than track down old used stones on Ebay etc.
http://www.danswhetstone.com/stone_grades_101.htm

PS: it is very obvious when the stone is cutting; when I sharpen O1 there is black swarf on the stone and it wipes off. When I try the A2 there is no discernible black swarf and the stone gets shiny where I run the blade back an forth. Then it is over to the diamond plate to get the stone back in usable shape which is time consuming to say the least. The hard Arks are . . .
well . . . hard
and
not hard enough all at the same time.
To understand that study sharpening stone friability and all those other cool guy terms.
Very interesting.

Hard steel never touches my oilstones. O1 and I are old friends.

One thing people don't realize, is that what sharpening system you need depends entirely on the steel you choose for your cutting edges. I choose O1 because I have so much of it, nothing else really gets as sharp, and woods I use don't have natural carborundum in them like stuff that Derek uses. About all I use is old Heart Pine, White Oak, and Walnut, with once in a while another American wood thrown in.

I get by with the cheapest sharpening setup. I used oilstones for 35 years before I bought the first water stone, but these days I mainly use Norton waterstones up through 8,000, Diamond Lapping Film (on a surface plate) for sharpening, and sandpaper on a surface plate for flattening the stones.

If you choose the fancier, harder steels, like A2 and above, you will not sharpen as quickly on a cheap waterstone, so when you get tired of the wear on the stone, and the time it takes to flatten, you go to harder, higher dollar stones. Once you go to the harder stones, then you need a several hundred dollar lapping plate to flatten the more expensive stone.

Most people don't seem to realize that it all has to work together. I'm glad O1 works just fine for me.

I have several different guides that we use for honing, including the MkII. I hone by hand if I'm in the middle of a project, and an edge needs to be touched up. My helpers are hopeless by hand, but I know they can hand me a sharp edge, as good as I can do, by using the MKII. Take every advantage you can get, at least to start with.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Well said Tom! Further, most of us when touting certain stones, typically mention the steel type used. I have mostly O1, but there is some A2 in there and is sharpened on the same stones.

[David Weaver]

A2 can be sharpened fine on oilstones, it just becomes more important to keep the grind current and work little metal (the same is true for any metal that is very hard - if A2 was 58 hardness, it would sharpen more easily on a lot of the natural stones).

I don't love A2 straight off of a washita (it holds on to a bigger wire edge), but a piece of $5-$10 owyhee or biggs jasper slab is the equalizer in running the burr right off of the steel, and it seems as good as anything else.

That said, someone who uses a guide is never going to get the most out of oilstones and probably won't "get them" because oilstones rely on touch that you're not going to be able to have dragging stones backwards in a guide. Same with someone who feels the need to lap all natural stones. Oilstones don't do their finest work when they've been scuffed up - if they needed that, historical accounts would've involved conditioning them with emery, but I'd imagine the craftsmen involved in fine trades guarded the cleanliness and settled in nature of their fine stones with rigor, and the last thing they would've done is scuffed up a stone.

The best thing anyone who is attached to dragging irons backwards in a guide can do is stick with stones that have tiny particles that don't rely on any touch. You won't have to rely on skill to keep a stone flat, you won't have to have regard for what condition the surface of a stone is in, etc, and you won't have to learn the characteristics of a stone. Just drag the iron across it.

If you want to start sharpening things freehand, though, you will get to the point probably that you can sharpen anything in your house, from scissors, to yard tools, to all of the kitchen knives, drill bits etc, without any guides or contraptions.