Shootin' for an answer

[Christopher Charles]

Hello all,

I've been considering an upgrade to my system for shooting for a while now. I have a full set of bench planes (LN 4, vintage Stanley 5 and 7) and LN LA block plane. None are ideal for shooting because of size, blade angle and (in the case of the 7) non-square sides.

I'm considering the following options:

1) the Veritas shooting plane. Answer to all the problems, but (more than) "$300 is a lot of money". At the same time, I won't hesitate to spend if it is the right answer/best option out there.

2) a LA jack plane. Would work well, would be a more or less dedicated shooter. Would be less initially, but since I wouldn't be using it for much else, there's not much value to me in having the LA Jack beyond shooting with perhaps the addition of a toothed blade (which I currently have in large LV scraper).

3) building a wooden low angle shooter, but have not seen much on this topic. This suggests that wooden planes with a low angle and or the tight tolerances for making a high-performing shooting plane mean that it's not worth the effort.

I'm curious what folks (especially David W.) use and whether the recent discussions to getting high performance out of vintage smoothers can also be applied to shooting rigs. I may or may not be able to pull together funds in time for the free shipping at LV, but figure others may be curious as well. Finally, I work primarily in domestic NA hardwoods, not that nasty stuff Derek writes about :)

Cheers,
C

[paul cottingham]

I am no David, but I find the LV Low Angle Jack is an excellent shooter. I really like it, cause its a multipurpose tool. I use it with a toothed blade for gnarly grain, or as a bed for higher angle blades.

[David Weaver]

Anything square that will hold lateral adjustment is fine. I'm not the shooters shooter, for sure, as I don't shoot ends or miters unless I have to, and of all of the things that I do by hand (preparing lumber, etc), I will often cut miters with an old american made dewalt miter saw that is awfully accurate and can just take a whisper off of something when needed.

I can't remember the last time I shot the end of something. It's more likely that I'll plane to a line on the end of a board or small panel, and short stuff ends up either being hidden or having the end cut off and then planed flush after assembly.

When I do shoot, I use an LN 7, just because it's the only square plane that I have. At one point, I had an LN 9, and the LV LA jack, but sold them when I realized I rarely shoot anything and could easily use an LN 7 when I did.

I'm going to sound like a party pooper here, but I always figured that if I was shooting stuff all the time that I should figure out whether or not I need to actually be doing that, because it doesn't seem to be the case that there are gobs of old shooting specific planes around.

If you are lucky enough to have an old bench plane that's actually square, it'll do fine enough as long as nothing is loose on the adjustment.

One other aside, I have used planes that are out of square by using their lateral adjustment to compensate, and I didn't like it that much if the plane is not very close to square.

[Jeff Heath]

If you're gonna go the woodie route, it's called a "strike block plane". You'll find them from 35° to 40°, with a bevel down configuration.

I used to have the LN #9, and then was gifted the #51 Shoot Board plane. I got rid of the #51, as it only works in one direction, so not really good for miters, unless you turn the board upside down, and that has it's own problems with mouldings. The #9 can work in either direction, and is a great tool that I used for years when I was doing a lot of cabinetmaking door work. I made a lot of mitered doors, and used it frequently with a shopmade board.

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab57/hawkfan9/hand%20tools/shootingboard.jpg

The critical component is that the tools side is square to it's edge, and has enough side width to register properly to your shooting board.

If I were you, I'd build a dedicated strike block plane first and see how you like it. Lee Valley sells a tapered plane iron for the task. I have made one using it and it's an excellent tool for the task. Mine is at 37°.

[Jim Belair]

I am no David, but I find the LV Low Angle Jack is an excellent shooter. I really like it, cause its a multipurpose tool. I use it with a toothed blade for gnarly grain, or as a bed for higher angle blades.

+1 to what Paul said.

[Brian Holcombe]

I use the low angle jack as well. I shoot pretty regularly because I often have the end grain exposed on my projects.

[Prashun Patel]

I am new to shooting and use the lv la jack. It works well. The only issue is thAt the handle is not optimally placed as on a dedicated shooting plane. If there was some kind of mountable hot dog like the ln la jack, itd be better.

[Jim Matthews]

I squared up my board so that the blade is square to the top face of the board.

A little shim here and there was required.
It's not the side of the plane that needs to be at 90 degrees to the work -
it's the blade does.

There's no better test of your sharpening skills than getting this right.

Unless you're working with really hard, gnarly or exotic woods - your Stanley 7 should serve.
If the blade isn't holding a keen edge, a new iron might be cheaper than a new plane.

I'm like most, shooting isn't a regular process for my builds.

[Warren Mickley]

I made a shooting board around 1982 when I was making a lot of very small boxes. Back then people were only using shooting boards for very short end grain or small mitre cuts or very thin stuff, like under 1/4 inch. Historically, if one were doing a surface that was big enough to rest a plane on, the shooting was done in a vise. When I moved into my present shop in 1985, I made some shelves, put the shooting board on the bottom shelf, and there it collects dust. For small mitres, I sometimes put a plane in the vise and hold the workpiece.

[Jim Koepke]

To me a shooting board is an essential tool. A shooting board can do more than squaring end grain.

In most cases a good bench plane is a good option for shooting. A #6 worked well for me with one caveat being it did stress an old shoulder injury. The second point is the lower angle of a bevel up plane shears the end fibers better which leaves a nicer surface for those who like the look of end grain.

A Lie-Nielsen #62 LA Jack has helped a lot in that department. The #62 is mostly dedicated to shooting in my shop with occasional duties elsewhere.

The main reason for me to consider any of the shooting board planes would be if the effective angle of attack was lower due to the skewed blade. This appears to be the case with the Veritas edition even if it is only 2º of effective difference. That may not be enough to get me to kick myself over not waiting a few years for an unknown possiblity. Though the shearing cut may leave an even better end grain.

The thing I do not like about the current offerings is how far the hand is back from the blade. It may just be me, but for my own preference it seems having the hand closer to the blade via a hot dog allows better control.

jtk

[paul cottingham]

I should have added the fact that I am tall (6'2" or so) and big, with a reasonably low bench, so getting on top of the plane to put pressure where it belongs is easier for me with the jack than it may be for other, less, umm, similarly dimensioned folk. As a result, YMMV.

[Christopher Charles]

Thank all for insights.

Jeff, your observation that a shooting plane is problematic for miters is a very good one and something I hadn't thought about. I'll consider a strike block plane and I presume that tapered blade is especially important given the low bed angle?

David, thanks and unfortunately, none of my bench planes are square, so I may try tweaking the shooting board to fit or moving to a LA jack as a dedicated end grain plane.

Cheers,
C

[Mike Siemsen]

" building a wooden low angle shooter, but have not seen much on this topic. This suggests that wooden planes with a low angle and or the tight tolerances for making a high-performing shooting plane mean that it's not worth the effort."
Building a wooden low angle plane is difficult because the wood will not support angles much lower than around 35 degrees.

"I presume that tapered blade is especially important given the low bed angle?"
Tapered irons are used in wooden planes so that you have two wedges interacting, tap the iron in and it loosens, tap the wedge in and it tightens

[Tom M King]

If you have much to do, one that runs in a track is great. If you only do a little once in a while, you can get by with about anything with a square side and sharp iron. We have an order for a number of reproduction reeded mantles with a bunch of small reeded pieces to fit together, so I bought the LV shooting plane and built a board out of Corian. It's almost unbelievable how well it works. I've just gotten by over the years with cobbled up boards and various regular planes.

[glenn bradley]

I am new to shooting and use the lv la jack. It works well. The only issue is thAt the handle is not optimally placed as on a dedicated shooting plane. If there was some kind of mountable hot dog like the ln la jack, itd be better.

Another LV LAJ user here. Added my own hot dog.

285679 . 285680

[Chris Griggs]

I also am happy with my LV LA jack as a dedicated shooter. I do use it for other stuff sometimes, but it was purchased for and is mostly used as a shooting plane.

I've liked that LN 9 an awful lot when I used it in the past as well. Like others have said about both the LA Jack and the LN 9, I like that they can use it on either side.

I do think it would be cool to build a wooden strike block plane someday...but its a ways down the list.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Christopher

There are divergent replies so far, ranging from those that are frugal and do not support the use of a plane dedicated to squaring ends or mitres, to those who are enthusiastic advocates. My position is that a shooting board and plane are extremely useful tools if you build drawers or boxes. They are not essential tools insofar as you can just plane to a knifed line, they do ensure accurate results every time, and turn some tricky tasks into a pleasurable, no-brainer activity. I would not be without a shooting board.

A dedicated shooting plane is, similarly, not necessary. One could use just about any plane. However, should you have the space and can afford one, it is more efficient to have a dedicated shooting plane that is ready to use for shooting. Purchase what you can justify cost-wise. We are all different here. There are no rights or wrongs.

If you are going down the route of general purpose plane, the Veritas LA Jack is excellent. Indeed, used with the correct hand hold, I would rate it above the LN #9, which is a dedicated shooter. There is an article on my website comparing the LAJ with the LN #51 and LN #9. Among the dedicated shooters, the Veritas Shooting Plane - their version of the #51 - is my preference over the LN #51. You would have to use them side-by-side to recognise these differences, however. They are all excellent planes and if your personal taste takes you to prefer one on looks, you will be well served. There is a review on my website that compares the Veritas and LN.

I have also built a wooden shooting plane - a Strike Block Plane - with a low cutting angle. This is achieved by making it bevel down at 38 degrees. It, too, works extremely well, and is a low cost option.

Lastly, I would advocate a ramped shooting board for a shooting plane with a square blade, and a flat shooting board for a shooting plane with a skewed blade. If you plan on shooting mainly mitres and will use a dual mitre set up, then a plane that is reversible for direction is preferred. If this is just a small proportion of the shooting, and you will mainly be squaring ends, then you can choose anything your heart and pocket can stand.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Derek Cohen]

A few links:

Shooting boards and planes compared: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ShootingPlanesCompared.html

LN #51 review: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/LN51ShootingPlane.html

Veritas Shooting Plane review: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/LVShootingPlane.html

Strike Block Plane: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BuildingaStrikeBlockPlane.html

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BuildingaStrikeBlockPlane_html_71a1e942.jpg

There are articles on building and designing shooting boards on this page: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/index.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Rob Luter]

I use my LV Low Angle Jack for shooting and a whole lot more. It's a great plane.