My DIY wagon vise

[Marko Milisavljevic]

Allow me to show off my wagon vise. I am very pleased with how it came out. It cost $100 in parts for deluxe version. Base model would be about $40 and just as functional.

Bench dog block:
285560

Screw with bench dog block:
285557 285558 285559

Rear half of the rail:
285561

Assembled vise, from below:
285562

Assembled vise from above:
285563

Ingredients:
Lee Valley Tail Vise Screw (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=41664&cat=1,41659) (*)
Kreg Combo-Trak 48" (https://www.kregtool.com/ComboTrak-48-combination-miter-mini-trak-Prodview.html) (optional - I happened to have it on hand. You could just make a rail out of some hard-wearing wood, or use a simple miter channel if you have some on hand, with a strip of wood tightly assembled under it to give it some support) (**)
Benchcradted End-Cap Barrel Nuts (http://www.benchcrafted.com/Benchbuilding.html) (optional - you can use some other, less expensive screws or bolts)

I am building split-top from Benchcrafted plans, and this fits with almost no modification - just a little wider space under the bench and obviously different dog block. Widths of lamination pieces and all lengths are unchanged.

Action is very smooth and it feels bomb-proof. It doesn't spin as nicely as Benchcrafted tail vise - it will only do about 2.5 rotations when spun. Long handle is not needed, I'll install a very short one with a small perpendicular handle that freely rotates so I can spin it quickly.

I agonized over tail vise choice because $400 didn't sit well with me, and I'm very glad I did this. I am generally not frugal when it comes to tools, but for 1/10 to 1/4 of the price you can have a robust wagon vise with excellent peformance that any newbie can build (this workbench-in-progress is my first woodworking project).

A few tips to offer to a potential builder:
- Rails must be as parallel with each other as possible, as well as parallel with the top
- Screw must be parallel with rails, and the easiest way to fine-tune this is to leave making holes for flange mounting screws for the very end - tiny adjustment there has dramatic impact on how smoothly the screw moves, whether it binds or glides.
- To build the vise block, start with a cuboid and fully finish that shape to make sure everything is parallel / right angle, then mark it accurately, then cut down into the block shape. Don't try to glue up a few odd-shaped pieces and hack from there. If you are making rectangular dog holes, you will have to make that first, then build up into a cuboid.

I am left-handed, so these photos are probably mirror image of what you need to build.

(*) I treated LV vise as described in this thread (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?211598-removing-green-finish-from-metal-vise-screws&p=2198522#post2198522)
(**) I originally solicited ideas for rails here (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?212190-Aluminum-for-wagon-vise-rails)

[Jim Matthews]

Clever.

The lamination of the block is a slick solution to the problem.
Having the screw captured at two ends removes the slack in the acme screw thread.

Kudos

[Matthew N. Masail]

Great idea, looks great I'm sure it works great too. I wonder why you need it so long? if you space your holes every 3-4 inchs you don't need more than 6 inches of travel in the wagon vise.

[Chris Griggs]

Very clever indeed, and very well done. A really nice alternative to spending huge dollars while still getting a great vise. Glad you posted this.

[Robert Culver]

this is a great Idea I and going to be building that same bench here shortly once I get all my wood together with this and another option for a leg vise I think I got all the vises covered now at a pretty decent cost!!

[Marko Milisavljevic]

if you space your holes every 3-4 inchs you don't need more than 6 inches of travel in the wagon vise.

A few reasons:

- this way I can clamp a long vertical object up to about 12.5" wide and 1.75" thick between vise block and body of bench
- by being able to move block closer to center of bench I don't need to be working always near the tail end, which is a smidgen closer to the wall than I would ideally like
- I counted on sticking to Benchcrafted plana so that if my vise didn't work out falling back onto theirs was an easy way out

[Marko Milisavljevic]

A few more build notes:

- End cap has 1.75" hole facing the bench. This is so tapered nut can be fully retracted into it. It is a little too small to fully retract it, so if I did it again I'd make it 1 7/8+.
- Outside of end cap and vise block have a 1.25" hole.
- Block is hard maple. I wouldn't build it with something much softer, and if I did, I would make it with replaceable sliders in the style of Lake Erie Toolworks recommendation (http://www.lakeerietoolworks.com/online/templatemedia/all_lang/resources/Lake+Erie+Toolworks+-+Wagon+Vise+Installation+Instructions+-+10-5-2013.pdf) for wagon vise installation
- I tapped the wood for all screws used. This is just because I had fun with it, but regular wood screws would work too. Putting screws into endgrain of vise block is potentially iffy, but should they ever strip out, repair would be easy by simply using metal nut inserts
- LV hardware is attached with 1/4-20 screws, Kreg track with #10-28
- Vise block can be removed for repair by unscrewing the flange, removing the vise screw and unscrewing the miter channel.
- End cap will experience quite a bit of force trying to pop it out, so if you are improvising something make sure it is sturdy.

[David Messent]

Great looking vise!

Does the use of this hardware mean that the vise action will be reversed (clockwise moves the dog towards the handle)?

[Marko Milisavljevic]

Yes - I was wondering how that would feel, but I got used to it in a couple of minutes, and now it seems like the other way would be wrong. When you are perpendicular to screw, it doesn't feel so much as clockwise vs counterclockwise, but it is more like push top of handle away from me to tighten and toward me to release.

[Federico Mena Quintero]

That's very cool! Those screws are easily available here. I think I'll build a vise just like that. Thanks for posting.

[daniel lane]

This is an old thread, I know, but I wanted to say thanks, Marko. I'm looking to start a bench build soon, and I'm trying to get the design finished before I buy everything (novel idea, right?). I'm planning on a Roubo style and wanted an end vise; since I've already built a Moxon vise for dovetailing, I think a wagon vise would be of more value for me. What you've done here is a great idea, and I think I will steal your entire design. :)

Now, the front vise is of course going to be a standard Roubo leg vise. Kinda unfortunate for me, since I bought a Jorgensen QR vise from Lee Valley 3.5 years ago...and have been lugging it along for two moves since then...and now don't need it. *sigh* In my defense, I originally bought it to go with a multi-purpose bench I was building, but the bench had too thin a top. Adding blocking wasn't an option; not worth going into why here. Guess I've got to figure out what to do with it, now.

Anyway, enough whining there. Just wanted to say thanks for your work, and for being left-handed. It makes my work easy. :)


Regards,

daniel

[Matthew N. Masail]

For what it's worth, I like a metal end vise better than I do a wagon wise. My first and current bench has a DIY wagon vise but a metal end vise will do anything a wagon wise will and much more ( unless you make the wagon one really long) + the metal vise effectively makes your bench longer by the opening amount.

[Marko Milisavljevic]

In my basement, I can use about 11ft for the bench, including the space around it to allow for a plane to clear the work. That leaves around 7ft for the bench, so either I could have a shorter bench with an end vise that extends, or a 7ft bench with a vise that doesn't extend. In my case I preferred more bench length. So it depends on bench location, space constraints, intended use, aesthetic preferences... In most situations either should work just fine if they are well made.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Aggreed it does depend on space. I have limited space in the shop and so my new bench won't be more than 5 feet . an end vise will increased that for when I need it. at 7 feet Youll probably need a bigger shop before you need a bigger bench ! I like the end vise for other reasons too, but one could always add one to the back left end or make a Moxon. there is no wrong or right here. Just saying to Daniel a metal vise can be great

[Winton Applegate]

Marko,

I saw this thread and before reading it but while glancing at the general thread I was fully prepared to congratulate you and commend you for improving on the commercial wagon vise.

I have always found the wagon vise to look very weak from a mechanical / physics (engineering if you will) view point.

Considering the weight of some of the things it could encounter to grip, like eighty pound planks ( or more) and using it to physically pull apart old mortise and tenon joints etc.
and
scrub planing cross grain with a heavy cut and a two hundred and fifty pound adrenaline charged wood worker behind it.

anyway

I then saw that it was an old thread and I could just shut up and relax.

Then I had a thought : I would love to see some photos of the current used components, assuming they have been used in the above situations, to see how they faired.
? :
Did the sides of the laminated wooden block crack open ?
it looks so thin around the dog hole for the potential stresses.
If made from aluminum I wouldn’t say that. Well . . . as long as the corners in the dog hole were radiused and the part was properly heat treated.
Did the aluminum guides get easily bent at the thin(ish) bottom lip ?
If made from steel I would still probably say that unless thicker.
I would have some moderate concerns that the slot the vise travels through would spring open to some small degree while planing cross grain and have the potential to allow the dog to twist and the plank to slip out of its grip.

I realize I am posting these photos for the millionth time. It is to show the supporting structure for the moving dog of the Klausz bench. Not to show off but to demonstrate what some (very experienced pro wood workers)(not me) consider adequate beef in this component. You must admit there is a vast difference.

The screw you are using has the potential to lift an entire automobile, for example, off the ground using hand and arm strength alone. That kind of multiplier of the force one puts into the handle . . .against a three eighths sheet of medium strength wood, with a square corner to act as a stress riser . . . well . . .

You must see my concerns.
I don't want to seem like I am "attacking" so much as perhaps stimulating some lively discussion and another perspective.

[Marko Milisavljevic]

Hi Winton,

Thanks for your comments. I must admit I had little woodworking time since I built the vise and it has not seen enough use in a variety of situations to make conclusions about longevity. I can say this much:

- Dog block is built nearly the same way as Benchcrafted vise (same issue with thin side walls around dog hole) - mine is overall a little beefier. Considering that quite a few of those were built, we'd probably have heard if there were issues with that design, although it is very possible users of those are just gentleman woodworkers like myself.
- Kreg rails are pretty strong, and cranking the vise harder than I can imagine needing produces no discernible bending of rail walls. There are a couple of reasons for that: top rail wall is thin, but is supported by the bench so there is nowhere to bend, bottom wall is a lot stronger/thicker because it forms the T-rail and you can't really flex it. If using ordinary mitre channel, I would definitely screw in a strip of hard wood under it to prevent outward bending on bottom. Due to length of the rails, there is no stress near ends of the rails, where it would be most prone to bending.
- I don't know how it would work for spreading, but I don't really see that it would perform very differently than clamping.

I went through this design in my head over and over and had a lot of concerns about strength. When I built it, I realized it is much stronger than I expected it to be. Alas, without more hard use, I can't make a definitive statement, but I will update this thread if anything ever happens to it.

[Winton Applegate]

I will update this thread if anything ever happens to it.

To quote one of my young helpers :

Peace Out !

I am not exactly clear on what all that means but seems good to use here.

[Scott Stewart]

I really want to build something like this (already have the hardware in my grubby little hand). Anyone see an issue with the pressure against the flange screws? I've been wondering if I should go all the way through the end cap with bolts there.

Thanks,

Scott

[Marko Milisavljevic]

I was concerned about that as it seems it could be the first thing to fail. I decided to keep it simple and use screws (I just got a tap and die set before I built mine, so I was tap-happy and went with, if I recall correctly, 1/4-20 thread in hard maple). If something ever happens to screws, you can convert to bolt + barrel nuts easily without having to dismantle anything - http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=67659&cat=1,43455 or many other possibilities. Wood screws can together probably hold over 1000lbs pullout force in hard maple.

[Scott Stewart]

Thanks Marko, I appreciate the information. Scott

[ian maybury]

Hi Marko. Nice going - good to see some lateral thinking. Presuming it holds up the all wood carriage/dog block is a key step in reducing the project to something eminently DIY-able.

I'm about to start building my own bench, and have the parts ready for a DIY wagon vise too. Not thinking of the possibility of an all wood block I ended up doing a fair bit of machining and metal cutting to get to where you are. I cannibalised the ACME threaded boss from the base plate of an unused Lee valley large face vice - which when screwed to a base in 10mm steel plate (which will mount the carriage/dog block) will run in rails made from a scrapped length of UHMW lined steel channel from an old industrial pallet conveyor. (a stock part used by builders of automated assembly systems) I'm using the Lee Valley screw too - but mounted in a locally sourced flange mounted self aligning ball bearings, and fitted with the now de-rigeur cast iron hand wheel from a tooling supplies place.

The parts are ready for a DIY leg vise too - very similar to the Benchcrafted scissors model, but based around the screw from a Lee Valley Twin Screw vise. I bought the cast scissors linkage from Benchcrafted's German distributor. Not sure whether to fit a handwheel or not.....