Jointer knife Set Up

[George Bokros]

My jointer has started to taper stock edge to edge so I guess the knives have slipped. I have looked at several jigs to set up the knives.

1.) Jointer Pal ~$50
2.) MLCS 9397 Jointer set Up Jig ~$70
3.) One Way Multi Gauge ~ $95

Jointer Pal uses rare earth magnets to hold the blades in position.
MLCS uses magnets but allows for micro adjustments
One Way Multi Gauge utilizes a dial indicator to measure blade height in relation to the out feed table.

What do you use / recommend.

I am leaning to the One Way but cost seems steep but is definitely more accurate.

Thanks for your input.

George

[Bob Vaughan]

The Oneway gauge is the only one of the three that will allow you know exactly where things are. Making your own indicator holding block and using off-the-shelf dial indicators is cheaper. The tip is the key. Regular dial indicators come with a small point. Even a harbor Freight dial indicator and mag base will work, just don't turn on the magnet and be careful about tightening the inexpensive post clamps.

[Rich Riddle]

Before purchasing a Shelix head, I used the MLCS 9397 Jointer set Up Jig and experienced nothing but good things with it. Good luck with your decision.

[Dick Mahany]

I used to use the magnet on glass method for setting my knives. Now I use the Oneway multi gage and won't part with it. Solid, repeatable, excellent stable mass, and it has a number of other uses. I don't think one can go wrong with that set up.

[Bruce Wrenn]

I modified my magnet base to hold my dial indicator in vertically, like to One Way Gauge, only a lot cheaper. Materials used included metric bolt to match magnetic base hole, scrap of 3/4 stock, bolt and nut from bolt boxes. As I already owned magnetic base, dial indicator, scrap and bolt from bolt box, only cost was the metric bolt.

[Jim Andrew]

The old Powermatics used to use a gauge that sat on the outfeed table, and the end sat on the knife. There was a gauge that you just centered on a mark and the blade was set. The head had set screws to adjust the height, you just put an allen wrench in the set screw and adjusted the height of the blade, then tightened it. Move to the next blade. You could replace your blades in about 5 minutes.

[Mel Fulks]

Most likely the knives have dulled ,which makes the out feed table high . Less than two thousandths will cause that taper.

[Ed Edwards]

George,
Before I'd send the $$ to MLCS I'd check the review on Amazon

In my opinon there's nothing like a dail indicator

Ed

[Eric Shapin]

Check this video for a comparison of the 3 options that you list http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/jointer-setup/ . I agree with the conclusion, based on my own experience, that the Oneway is superior, hands-down.

FWIW - The tapering may not be indicative of any setup problem; I.e., the jointer's function is to take a bent, warped, and/or twisted board and establish a plane on one face and one edge. Given the original condition of the board, that plane may wind up anywhere, and not necessarily parallel to the opposite face/edge. Subsequent operations on the planer and jointer will create the parallel faces and edges.

[George Bokros]

Thanks for all the input. I am certain that it is not an issue with the stock. The stock was previously planed but had a slight banana from end to end so I doubt it would end up tapering from edge to edge,

I saw the woodwhisperer video last evening and agree with every one and the video that a dial indicator is the best alternative.

As for the knives dulling that is a possibilty. I am not sure if this model (Delta) has reversible knives I will see when I take them out.

New question on this issue.......

Woodwhisperer took out the springs under the knives in the video, is that something you would recommend? It makes sense to me since the adjustment screws raise the knives.

George

Update.......Figured out that the jointer knives are not two sided. I am planning to get the carbide tipped from Infinity tool and the One Way Multi Tool.

[Mel Fulks]

Some like the springs,I don't since I use magnets. I know it doesn't take much dulling to change height relationship to
table because I have used calibrated table adjustment wheel to do that for slightly hollow joints. What you are getting can happen with newly sharpened knives if a small nick from grit is hit right off.

[glenn bradley]

Before I gave up on knives I used the magnets on glass method. Worked great, quick and reliable.

285583

[Tom M King]

I have all sorts of dial indicators and gizmos for measuring and setting blades. For a jointer, I use a small, straight strip of hard wood (Boxwood for me that's about 1/4 by 1/2") held down on the outfeed table, and set the blades by feel. I can do it much faster like this than can be done with a gauge. Tighten the end bolts just tight enough to let you slide the blade up and down with fingers. Rotate the head back and forth and feel for top dead center brushing the wood, but not moving it. It takes a light touch, but you can feel tolerances like this as small as you can read with a gauge. Tighten the end bolts when both ends are right, and then tighten the others.

So far, I've won every bet on being able to do it as accurately, and at least as fast like this. I've thrown away the adjuster screws were in my jointer heads.

I've started sharpening blades more frequently since I developed a good feel for this method. The last time I took the blades out of the 6" jointer, sharpened them with paper on a surface plate with the Veritas sharpening jig, and reinstalled the blades, took a bit less than 15 minutes.

This works a lot faster than you might think: http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=33002&cat=1,43072,43078&ap=1 You can't beat their return policy if you don't like it, but I don't know why anyone wouldn't.

[Myk Rian]

A 12" steel rule. I set all the knives to move it 1/8", then adjust the out-feed table.

[George Bokros]

Not having luck finding carbide tipped knives for my Delta 037-195 jointer. The knives are 6 1/16 x 5/8 x 3/32. Closest I find are 6 1/16 x 5/8 x 1/8. It would seem 1/32 shouldn't be an issue but I am a newbee at this so I am thinking the 1/8 thick would NOT work.

Anyone have first hand knowledge of this?

Thanks

George

[Tom M King]

The thicker knives require you to grind down a wrench thin enough to be able to tighten the bolts. I ended up doing that for an old 8" Delta jointer I have, but then found out that Woodworkers Supply sells the thinner knives-don't know about carbide though.

[Jeff Duncan]

Not having luck finding carbide tipped knives for my Delta 037-195 jointer. The knives are 6 1/16 x 5/8 x 3/32. Closest I find are 6 1/16 x 5/8 x 1/8. It would seem 1/32 shouldn't be an issue but I am a newbee at this so I am thinking the 1/8 thick would NOT work.

Anyone have first hand knowledge of this?

Thanks

George

Don't you need backers with the carbide knives? I'm not positive, though I know for shaper tooling you have to have steel backers for carbide….it's just too brittle on it's own. Personally I'd stick with a good quality HSS as carbide is crazy expensive and unless your jointing a lot of man made materials probably unnecessary?

As far as setting knives you can save yourself some money and look up the "stick method". It's just so much easier and will get you up and running without spending on gadgetry.

good luck,
jeffD

[Dennis Peacock]

I glued 2 boards together and then glued some cheap magnets to the 4 corners plus 2 magnets 1" back from what would be at the throat of my jointer. I set my knives that way every single time. Total cost was $5 plus 2 scrap walnut boards. Works perfectly every time. :)

[CPeter James]

This is my favorite setup. I have Jointer Pals, and about 3 other methods, but this one gets the knives within .002" with a little effort. The cost is less than $15.00. A piece of plywood, two magnets and a $10 dial indicator from Enco. the large flat foot is available from several suppliers on line. I bought several at one time just to have on hand.

CPeter

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-MBtUIrgVmTM/UzCRBrDS45I/AAAAAAAADIc/F_Fx-H1dUPg/s640/IMG_0223.JPG?gl=US

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ICiI71_oYKM/UzCRCRRKs8I/AAAAAAAADIk/r-SkQI8Aw3U/s640/IMG_0224.JPG?gl=US

[Jim Andrew]

CPeter, that is the closest thing I've seen to the old Powermatic jig.

[Don Huffer]

For the record. I don't think there is anyway your knives have slipped. That would be catastrophic.

Before or during knife replacement make sure the machine isn't out of true. Can the out feed table be raised and lowered?

Are both beds on the same plane?

Do you move the machine around? Any hard bumps lately?

Gibbs worn on in feed side?

[ken masoumi]

This is my favorite setup. I have Jointer Pals, and about 3 other methods, but this one gets the knives within .002" with a little effort. The cost is less than $15.00. A piece of plywood, two magnets and a $10 dial indicator from Enco. the large flat foot is available from several suppliers on line. I bought several at one time just to have on hand.

CPeter




CPeter,nice jig,did you make it because you didn't have a magnetic holder or was it because it's more accurate with this jig?

[George Bokros]

The jointer is on a mobile base but it is in the basement and there have been no major jars. Both beds are on the same plane. The knives are dull, I have run considerable material through the shop.

I have adjusted the existing knives, new ones are on order. I am not sure this situation did not exist from day one but I never noticed it. I did find that the outer end of the cutter head is .002 higher than the inner end. I am guessing it could be worn cutter head and / or bearings but I am also not sure this did not exist from day one. I guess I will adjust the new knives so the inner ends are .002 higher than the outer ends to true up the cut. There is more than enough knife width for the knives to still be adequately secured and safe, does it make sense to do this?

I did buy the Oneway Multi Gauge.

It has been two frustrating days.

Thanks for the input and help.

[John Schweikert]

George,

I feel for you. The small grizzly jointer I used took me a while to master a method to get the knives set well. I finally just used a Wixey mini digital height gauge ($25) with great success with the beds set in plane.

Since you bought the Oneway gauge, I'd say you were 1/3 of the way to paying for a Byrd head. With the sawmillcreek discount at Holbren.com, you can get a Byrd Shelix for your 037-195 for a shipped price of $314.10. I bought one in December for a used Jet jointer I got off Craigslist. I'm totally blown away with the quality of cut with the Byrd. Can't say I'll ever go back.

I hope with some more experimentation and practice you can get the knives set well. Otherwise think about returning the gauge and buy a Byrd.

[Mel Fulks]

You say the knives are dull, I think that is the main problem. If you have an actual nick ,try jointing an edge there and you
will see how different that makes the work ! I have seen guys needlessly start adjusting stuff based on what results they
get from a nick...when all they needed to do was move the fence an inch.

[George Bokros]

You say the knives are dull, I think that is the main problem. If you have an actual nick ,try jointing an edge there and you
will see how different that makes the work ! I have seen guys needlessly start adjusting stuff based on what results they
get from a nick...when all they needed to do was move the fence an inch.

Moving the fence an inch will not help, I am using the full 6" width face jointing.

George

[George Bokros]

TI guess I will adjust the new knives so the inner ends are .002 higher than the outer ends to true up the cut.

After I posted this I realized that setting the knives using the One Way referencing the out feed table takes the cutter head relationship to the out feed table out of the picture.

[Mel Fulks]

George, not saying it will help in this case. Im saying table adjustments are often made that are completely unnecessary. If you joint an edge where there is a nick , and joint another in the sharpest
spot ,you will see that it makes a big difference. Test boards should be at least four feet long.

[George Bokros]

How do know if the gibs need to be adjusted? What else should I check to solve tapering edge to edge when face jointing?

Thanks

George

[Mel Fulks]

I just wouldn't worry about that now. If you install sharp knives level with out feed table and still have a problem ...it might be solved by SMALL simple up or down table adjustment.

[Bud Zeien]

I've done it many times the same way Myk described, except I used an aluminum straight edge, work's great! But really, save your money and get a Shelix, you'll be wondering why you didn't do it a lot sooner.

[CPeter James]

I do have a Jointer Pal magnetic jig, but this is much more accurate.

CPeter

[Scott Rychnovsky]

I made jig like CPeter's recently when I was learning to set jointer knives. I also experimented with magnets on glass, but I do like to be able to see the numbers. I have talked to experienced woodworkers who swear that feeling a wood piece move is fast and easy, so I will try it sometime.

The Jig uses a dial indicator I had around, a bit of scrap 3/4" BB and minimal hardware. I used three 3/8" ball bearings pressure fit into the base to define a reproducible plane. I prefer this method over putting something "flat" on another "flat" surface. The indicator was slide into a slightly undersized hole and held by friction. I just need to get a mushroom head for the jig to be complete. It seems to be nicely reproducible with the small flat head I have on it.

Scott

[lawrence munninghoff]

Can you share a pic of your jig?

[Darcy Warner]

I use a stick with 2 pencil marks to set jointer knives.

Works for 8" to 30" jointer knives. I hate fiddling with dial indicators on jointer or planer knives.

[Brian Deakin]

My approach for setting the height of the blades

I take a piece of glass wider than the width of the planer knife blades I spray the underside of the glass with an opaque film eg furniture polish

I then place the glass on the outfeed table so the film of polish is directly above the planer blades

I then slowly adjust the height of the infeed table and rotate the blades by hand

When the blades start to scrape the film of polish off the underside of the glass you know the outfeed table is level with the height of the blades and you also have a visible record of how pararllel the blades are to the outfeed table indicated by the pattern of how the polish has been scraped off the glass

[Anthony Whitesell]

The jig I have is a corollary to the magnet on glass method.

This is not where I found the plans for the jig, but shows how it works and how to make it.

http://www.justsquareenough.com/Tutorials/JointerKnifeSettingJig

[Trevor Walsh]

I've used a dial indicator in stand like machinist's use and the magnet blocks glued to a piece of QS wood from White's book "Care and Repair of ShopMachines" This is what Anthony Whitesell links to in his post. Cheap and quick. I've used them for years.

I'm strongly adverse to buying gizmos that are basically fancy versions of the stuff I can build. I've used fancy setting jigs in other shops, but it doesn't make terribly much difference to me.

[Bill Dufour]

The DI does not have to be a good one. It does not have to even be accurate. Just repeatable measurements. A HF cheapo is plenty good and I did not mind hack sawing off half the indicator ram so it fit inside my planer. You should be able to unscrew the tip and replace it with a mushroom tip. Or superglue a ball on the end to make a mushroom tip.
I bet the HF specials the tip is not removable.
Bill

[Yonak Hawkins]

glenn, how do you know you have the drum rotated to the same position for all knives ?

[glenn bradley]

glenn, how do you know you have the drum rotated to the same position for all knives ?

You just locate top dead center. I do this with one knife still tight. It is easy to see when the knife is going up, hits the apex and starts to decline. Early on I used to check each knife position separately and put a felt pen mark on the base and then on the head at each TDC position. Now I find I can locate the position pretty quickly, slip a wedge of wood between the head and the base to keep things still, pull the old knife, insert the new knife, slide the glass over til the magnets "click" the blade up against the bottom and tighten things up. Unfortunately, like a lot of things, you get better at it having done it more than you ever wanted to ;-)

[Warren Lake]

there is a wider round tip for dial indicators that works best on an indicator., think if posted it before, no time now to look im reading your post didnt read to the bottom is that what you mean by the mushroom head? think so they work excellent the one that came with mine was useless tried a wide flat one and must not have liked that far too many years ago, this other one works great,