Software question.

[Rose Fruean]

Aloha all, I'm a newbie to laser cut engraving. I wanted to know if I'm using corel x6 not the full version. Am I able to edit photos from the web and also photos that have been drawn and scanned into my computer? Or do I need to upgrade to the full version. I'm still new to this and learning everyday, however I got a little confused about dxf and auto cad I'm not sure if I need those programs to be able to do what I would like or not. I pretty much just want to be able to engrave an out line of the images that i will be importing into laser cut. Any advice or help is greatly appreciated, thanks in advance. Aloha :)

[Rolf Randby]

Take a look at Inkscape it is a free program, and I think it might do what you want.

[Larry Bratton]

Not using the "full version" ..not sure I understand that? Did you not get Corel Photopaint when you got your software? If not, and your planning to edit bitmap images (photos) you will need this or a similar program such as Photoshop. There is a free bitmap editor out there called Gimp. If your new at this, be prepared for a steep learning curve..a lot to know. The hardest part of engraving is the creation of the files for the machine to work with. Many people are wooed by the laser sellers with the ease of creating output with the machine. Trust me, it's not completely true. A good solid graphics knowledge is required.

Aloha all, I'm a newbie to laser cut engraving. I wanted to know if I'm using corel x6 not the full version. Am I able to edit photos from the web and also photos that have been drawn and scanned into my computer? Or do I need to upgrade to the full version. I'm still new to this and learning everyday, however I got a little confused about dxf and auto cad I'm not sure if I need those programs to be able to do what I would like or not. I pretty much just want to be able to engrave an out line of the images that i will be importing into laser cut. Any advice or help is greatly appreciated, thanks in advance. Aloha :)

[Rose Fruean]

Take a look at Inkscape it is a free program, and I think it might do what you want.
Thank you very much going to try that

[Rose Fruean]

Not using the "full version" ..not sure I understand that? Did you not get Corel Photopaint when you got your software? If not, and your planning to edit bitmap images (photos) you will need this or a similar program such as Photoshop. There is a free bitmap editor out there called Gimp. If your new at this, be prepared for a steep learning curve..a lot to know. The hardest part of engraving is the creation of the files for the machine to work with. Many people are wooed by the laser sellers with the ease of creating output with the machine. Trust me, it's not completely true. A good solid graphics knowledge is required.

Hi Larry it did come with photo shop just missing a little tools like dxf tools etc. I am currently using photo shop to edit and draw to outline and vectorize..:)

[Larry Bratton]

Rose,
Your losing me here. Photoshop is a totally different product from Corel Photopaint..do you mean Photopaint?
dxf tools? dxf is an Autocad format. Corel Draw will import dxf files and save them also, but I have never had occasion to use that type file except on rare occasion.
Photopaint nor Photoshop is capable of "vectorizing" . Maybe you have your terminology confused. Be glad to help, just ask.

Hi Larry it did come with photo shop just missing a little tools like dxf tools etc. I am currently using photo shop to edit and draw to outline and vectorize..:)

[David Somers]

Good morning Rose!

Everything you have gotten so far is good info, but I can see a few terminology problems cropping up so I thought I would kibitz a bit.

Corel is a corporate name and Corel Draw is the name of one of their programs. Namely, the program that deals with vector graphics. Those are the types of graphics files used most by engravers for general engraving and cutting. All that is meant by vector graphics is that the lines and features drawn are done mathematically by the program rather than as a series of dots. Because of this a vector graphic doesn't have any real "resolution" to it. It isn't expressed in terms of dots per inch. Adobe's version of this program is Illustrator. Inkscape is another good vector program that also happens to be free. Something like Autocad is a vector program as well, but it is geared heavily towards someone doing drafting type work. It can certainly be used on an engraver as well.

Corel Corporation has painting programs available as well. PhotoPaint is the main one though they have some lesser versions out there as well. By lesser I mean they have fewer features and are geared more towards a casual user.

A paint image might also be called a bit map image. In bit map images the image, a photo for example though it doesn't have to be, is represented as a pattern of dots. Because of this the image is considered to be resolution dependent. All that means is the image is dealt with in terms of the number of dots per inch. This is a simplistic comparison, but think about a newspaper photo where the image is clearly made up of dots. And think about what happens to it if you put it on a copy machine and blow it up. You get bigger dots. It is resolution dependent. There are some very good ways of dealing with this but they are not really increasing the amount of detail in the image, just playing with the appearance and faking it. Quite effective though. Gimp is a free version of a bit map program. Adobe Photoshop is Adobe's version of this. Like Corel, Adobe also makes lesser versions of Photoshop that do less, but cost a lot less as well and are often more than enough for a home user. Bit Map programs are what you would do if you were trying to take a photo and modify it so it engraved well on a surface like glass or acrylic or stone. In our forum, the term to search for if you want a broad outline for the manual technique of doing this in Photopaint/photoshop/gimp is "gold method." If you prefer, there are programs like Photograv that do the same thing but with supposedly less intervention on your part. Do some searches on these and you will get a better feel for their strengths and weaknesses and people's experiences with them.

Corel X6 refers to their version 6 Suite of software. That is the equivalent of the Adobe Creative Suites. For a chunk of money they give you a bundle of programs including a vector program (Corel Draw) and a Paint Program (Corel PhotoPaint) and a slug of other programs as well. Corel Suite X7 should be coming out by the end of the summer if their upgrade patterns hold true.

The reason folks here will tend to steer you towards Corel is that many in the Engraving world have tended to use it, so you have a large, ready to tap base of experience with people who use that software on the types of engravers you will use. But that doesn't mean you have to stay with it. Many use Adobe Products. A smaller, but still quite significant number use the free software like Gimp and Inkscape, and others will use things like Autocad. A lot of the choice depends on your resources, what you are already familiar with, what you have available for local and online help and are comfortable with, etc. For example, Adobe and Autocad products tend to be fairly pricey. Corel less so but still a bit of money, and then you range down to the free packages. And then think about available help. If you have a community of people in your area who are Gimp and Inkscape users then you have a terrific resource. Those groups tend to be around colleges and universities in my experience, and also concentrated around maker shops if you are familiar with those. If not the online resources for Corel are extensive, with this forum being the least of them to put it in perspective. There are slugs of free tutorials on Corel for example, all available on line. We tend to be a good resource for single questions rather than tutorials.

Hope that helps put all these offerings in perspective and help you with the terms.

Dave

[Larry Bratton]

Dave,
Well put and all accurate except for the part about the Adobe suite. That no longer exists as a for sale item in it's original "hard copy" form. Adobe is now delivering this software via the cloud. As you know,you pay a small amount per month and it then gives you access to every product that they have,just download it and use it. I originally didn't have a very high opinion of the idea, but was offered a membership for about $20.00 a month,joined up and I must say, it's been worth every penny of it. I have software from them that I would not have been able to afford otherwise. I get updates delivered online as soon as Adobe publishes them which is great. It has also allowed me to acquire Illustrator CC and have subsequently learned to use it. Being a long time user of Corel, it was a challenge to learn the AI but since I have, I find myself using it more and more. However, I am still using Corel X4 for sending to and controlling the laser.

[David Somers]

Thanks for catching that Larry! I was just thinking about that and realized I hadn't mentioned it. And Corel is offering a subscription service as well I believe? $25 a month for the suite and $200/year. It is a good way to get the full suite without having to lay out the big bucks in one lump.

Dave

[Rose Fruean]

Rose,
Your losing me here. Photoshop is a totally different product from Corel Photopaint..do you mean Photopaint?
dxf tools? dxf is an Autocad format. Corel Draw will import dxf files and save them also, but I have never had occasion to use that type file except on rare occasion.
Photopaint nor Photoshop is capable of "vectorizing" . Maybe you have your terminology confused. Be glad to help, just ask.
Hi sorry I was so confused myself let me explain myself better. Sorry for the confusion. I purchased my 60 watt laser cut engraver specifically to engrave fonts and outlines of pictures don't need the detail of pictures.
So once I got the machine I was told to purchase corel x6. Little did I know that there was two different types the home and suite and the x6 suite. I bought the home and suite. So that one came with corel photo paint. So as I tried to engrave I didn't know all the things that needed to be edited and I had people telling me all different types of things from auto cad too dxf which made me very confused.
So at this point, all I want to do is get a simple outline trace of my image. However when I try too import into laser cut 5.3 it won't because my laser cut was set up to be compatible with corel 11...anyhow I was still able to import images from the corel draw but once I import it into laser cut I'm not able to get the back ground taken out. I did ask around, and just got more confused. Sorry so long I hope you can understand me much better now. Aloha

[Rose Fruean]

Good morning Rose!

Everything you have gotten so far is good info, but I can see a few terminology problems cropping up so I thought I would kibitz a bit.

Corel is a corporate name and Corel Draw is the name of one of their programs. Namely, the program that deals with vector graphics. Those are the types of graphics files used most by engravers for general engraving and cutting. All that is meant by vector graphics is that the lines and features drawn are done mathematically by the program rather than as a series of dots. Because of this a vector graphic doesn't have any real "resolution" to it. It isn't expressed in terms of dots per inch. Adobe's version of this program is Illustrator. Inkscape is another good vector program that also happens to be free. Something like Autocad is a vector program as well, but it is geared heavily towards someone doing drafting type work. It can certainly be used on an engraver as well.

Corel Corporation has painting programs available as well. PhotoPaint is the main one though they have some lesser versions out there as well. By lesser I mean they have fewer features and are geared more towards a casual user.

A paint image might also be called a bit map image. In bit map images the image, a photo for example though it doesn't have to be, is represented as a pattern of dots. Because of this the image is considered to be resolution dependent. All that means is the image is dealt with in terms of the number of dots per inch. This is a simplistic comparison, but think about a newspaper photo where the image is clearly made up of dots. And think about what happens to it if you put it on a copy machine and blow it up. You get bigger dots. It is resolution dependent. There are some very good ways of dealing with this but they are not really increasing the amount of detail in the image, just playing with the appearance and faking it. Quite effective though. Gimp is a free version of a bit map program. Adobe Photoshop is Adobe's version of this. Like Corel, Adobe also makes lesser versions of Photoshop that do less, but cost a lot less as well and are often more than enough for a home user. Bit Map programs are what you would do if you were trying to take a photo and modify it so it engraved well on a surface like glass or acrylic or stone. In our forum, the term to search for if you want a broad outline for the manual technique of doing this in Photopaint/photoshop/gimp is "gold method." If you prefer, there are programs like Photograv that do the same thing but with supposedly less intervention on your part. Do some searches on these and you will get a better feel for their strengths and weaknesses and people's experiences with them.

Corel X6 refers to their version 6 Suite of software. That is the equivalent of the Adobe Creative Suites. For a chunk of money they give you a bundle of programs including a vector program (Corel Draw) and a Paint Program (Corel PhotoPaint) and a slug of other programs as well. Corel Suite X7 should be coming out by the end of the summer if their upgrade patterns hold true.

The reason folks here will tend to steer you towards Corel is that many in the Engraving world have tended to use it, so you have a large, ready to tap base of experience with people who use that software on the types of engravers you will use. But that doesn't mean you have to stay with it. Many use Adobe Products. A smaller, but still quite significant number use the free software like Gimp and Inkscape, and others will use things like Autocad. A lot of the choice depends on your resources, what you are already familiar with, what you have available for local and online help and are comfortable with, etc. For example, Adobe and Autocad products tend to be fairly pricey. Corel less so but still a bit of money, and then you range down to the free packages. And then think about available help. If you have a community of people in your area who are Gimp and Inkscape users then you have a terrific resource. Those groups tend to be around colleges and universities in my experience, and also concentrated around maker shops if you are familiar with those. If not the online resources for Corel are extensive, with this forum being the least of them to put it in perspective. There are slugs of free tutorials on Corel for example, all available on line. We tend to be a good resource for single questions rather than tutorials.

Hope that helps put all these offerings in perspective and help you with the terms.

Dave

Hi, I'm very thankful for you and explaining what seemed to be so confusing for me to grasp.
I feel much better now understanding these programs and what they all can do. I will definitely go home and look up the info on the things you just told me about. I'm grateful to you and the rest of the guys who have took time to help me. I couldn't get a better response well explained. Thanks again I hope to choose a program that will do what I need it to just a simple program is all I need. Once again thank you this really helps a lot. Have a wonderful day :) Aloha Rose

[David Somers]

Aloha Rose!

Are you based in Hawaii? Worked and lived on the Big Island in Volcano for many years and loved it there.

So....in Corel, Corel Photopaint is what you would use normally to edit a photo as a photo, or to deal with any other type of graphics files that are bit map based. That would normally include files ending in jpg, gif, tif, etc. They are all variations of bit map files, each with different strengths and purposes.

And Corel Draw will be used to create and edit vector graphic files like you might encounter when doing a logo or line art, though it can get quite sophisticated and complex. Vector Graphic files from Corel typically end in .cdr, but there are many other vector formats like .dxf and eps to name but a few. One thing Corel Draw does have that is useful for your need is the ability to trace images and have the resulting tracing be a vector graphic file. When you save it you can choose what kind of file it is saved as. For instance. If you were doing up a file for someone who did not have Corel but wanted a vector format you might tell Corel to save as a dxf file or some other format they can handle with their software.

So....at this point, hop out on the web or use the Corel books and their online tutorials at Corel.com and look at the trace tool. It is a tool used on a bit map but from within Corel Draw, rather than from within PhotoPaint. I think you will find what you want there.

Or, if it doesn't look like that fits your need you might look at a tutorial that helps you do layers in Corel Draw, and then use the various drawing tools to do the tracing by hand with your bit map image on one layer, and your tracing on a layer above it. Think of layers as sheets of clear plastic that you can work on and see what is on the layers below it. Both are very good methods of getting to what I think you are describing.

In terms of how to get this into Lasercut I will let others help you with that. I do not have a laser yet myself so I don't have access to that software. Just a fast explanation by the way. I have been lurking about the forum since last Sept learning all I can about lasers without actually touching one (yes....a strange way to do it! <grin>) before deciding if it is a good tool for me and what machines I want to focus on. This is a wonderful forum with some very sharing and helpful folks. It takes a little bit to get used to searching on it, but part of that is getting the terms down, and part is getting used to the way the search tools work best. Practice will help you with this.

Hope this helps you!! A hui hou!

Dave

[Rose Fruean]

Aloha Rose!

Are you based in Hawaii? Worked and lived on the Big Island in Volcano for many years and loved it there.

So....in Corel, Corel Photopaint is what you would use normally to edit a photo as a photo, or to deal with any other type of graphics files that are bit map based. That would normally include files ending in jpg, gif, tif, etc. They are all variations of bit map files, each with different strengths and purposes.

And Corel Draw will be used to create and edit vector graphic files like you might encounter when doing a logo or line art, though it can get quite sophisticated and complex. Vector Graphic files from Corel typically end in .cdr, but there are many other vector formats like .dxf and eps to name but a few. One thing Corel Draw does have that is useful for your need is the ability to trace images and have the resulting tracing be a vector graphic file. When you save it you can choose what kind of file it is saved as. For instance. If you were doing up a file for someone who did not have Corel but wanted a vector format you might tell Corel to save as a dxf file or some other format they can handle with their software.

So....at this point, hop out on the web or use the Corel books and their online tutorials at Corel.com and look at the trace tool. It is a tool used on a bit map but from within Corel Draw, rather than from within PhotoPaint. I think you will find what you want there.

Or, if it doesn't look like that fits your need you might look at a tutorial that helps you do layers in Corel Draw, and then use the various drawing tools to do the tracing by hand with your bit map image on one layer, and your tracing on a layer above it. Think of layers as sheets of clear plastic that you can work on and see what is on the layers below it. Both are very good methods of getting to what I think you are describing.

In terms of how to get this into Lasercut I will let others help you with that. I do not have a laser yet myself so I don't have access to that software. Just a fast explanation by the way. I have been lurking about the forum since last Sept learning all I can about lasers without actually touching one (yes....a strange way to do it! <grin>) before deciding if it is a good tool for me and what machines I want to focus on. This is a wonderful forum with some very sharing and helpful folks. It takes a little bit to get used to searching on it, but part of that is getting the terms down, and part is getting used to the way the search tools work best. Practice will help you with this.

Hope this helps you!! A hui ho!

Dave
Aloha Dave yes Big island it is:) I love in the hilo area but three days out of the week I go to volcano for work...I'm guessing you moved back to your home town?

[David Somers]

My wife and I worked for the National Park Service at Hawaii Volcanoes for 12 years. She worked with the Resource Management crew and I did IT. I actually covered the entire Pacific Islands with one other person, from American Samoa to Guam and Saipan. I think we would have stayed there till I retired, but at the time our federal retirement system sort of penalized us if our highest paying 3 years of service were in HI. My annuity would have been about 20% less if I retired in HI as opposed to having my highest paying 3 years of service being in someplace like Seattle, even though the pay was almost identical. That is a chunk. So my wife stayed on in HI and I transferred to a job in our regional office in Seattle and planned on putting in my last 3 years here to bump up my annuity. Then I would have retired and moved back to HI. The remote sweetie thing was difficult, but worked OK. Then my wife's job funding got iffy. And she was also having problems with the vog up in Volcano. We lived back in the Golf Course area right by the winery so we got a lot of vog there. (for others reading....vog is Volcanic Fog from the active volcano, Kilauea, which was about 1.2 miles from our house as the Alala flies (hawaiian crow <grin>)) Finally she transferred to Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Park in CA for a few years, and then was finally able to move here to Seattle. At this point, although we miss the Big Island and all our friends there a bunch I think we are pretty well settled in Seattle where we also have a ton of long time friends. Casey also had some serious eye issues that developed as she was leaving Sequoia NP (detached retina.....8 times! woofff!) and we found that there are some real advantages to being in Seattle when it comes to health care. In fact, many of our friends from there come and stay with us when they come to Seattle for advanced care for certain problems. When I first got here I ended up having an open heart surgery for a valve repair. It would have been doable, but difficult if I were still on the Big Island. One couple from Volcano is staying with us now for about 2 months while she goes through chemo for a rare leukemia. These are both great places though. I loved Volcano and the Big Island dearly and miss it. But I also love the Pacific Northwest and Seattle dearly and am tickled to be here as well. So life is good!

Dave
PS...in case you hadn't figured it out....fair warning on me. You ask what seems like a simple question and you tend to get a mega answer. I am sure I drive others on the forum to distraction sometimes! <a warm grin to everyone!!>

[Rose Fruean]

My wife and I worked for the National Park Service at Hawaii Volcanoes for 12 years. She worked with the Resource Management crew and I did IT. I actually covered the entire Pacific Islands with one other person, from American Samoa to Guam and Saipan. I think we would have stayed there till I retired, but at the time our federal retirement system sort of penalized us if our highest paying 3 years of service were in HI. My annuity would have been about 20% less if I retired in HI as opposed to having my highest paying 3 years of service being in someplace like Seattle, even though the pay was almost identical. That is a chunk. So my wife stayed on in HI and I transferred to a job in our regional office in Seattle and planned on putting in my last 3 years here to bump up my annuity. Then I would have retired and moved back to HI. The remote sweetie thing was difficult, but worked OK. Then my wife's job funding got iffy. And she was also having problems with the vog up in Volcano. We lived back in the Golf Course area right by the winery so we got a lot of vog there. (for others reading....vog is Volcanic Fog from the active volcano, Kilauea, which was about 1.2 miles from our house as the Alala flies (hawaiian crow <grin>)) Finally she transferred to Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Park in CA for a few years, and then was finally able to move here to Seattle. At this point, although we miss the Big Island and all our friends there a bunch I think we are pretty well settled in Seattle where we also have a ton of long time friends. Casey also had some serious eye issues that developed as she was leaving Sequoia NP (detached retina.....8 times! woofff!) and we found that there are some real advantages to being in Seattle when it comes to health care. In fact, many of our friends from there come and stay with us when they come to Seattle for advanced care for certain problems. When I first got here I ended up having an open heart surgery for a valve repair. It would have been doable, but difficult if I were still on the Big Island. One couple from Volcano is staying with us now for about 2 months while she goes through chemo for a rare leukemia. These are both great places though. I loved Volcano and the Big Island dearly and miss it. But I also love the Pacific Northwest and Seattle dearly and am tickled to be here as well. So life is good!

Dave
PS...in case you hadn't figured it out....fair warning on me. You ask what seems like a simple question and you tend to get a mega answer. I am sure I drive others on the forum to distraction sometimes! <a warm grin to everyone!!>
Hi haha @ long answer not a problem. My brother lives in Seattle but currently working in Vegas so I totally understand your reasons for moving etc..I enjoyed reading what you shared :) Samoa Huh? I been there twice I'm the last few years I have family there and love visiting there but love Hilo...here is the kicker I have never been out of state besides Samoa hehe..as far as the health issues I so understand that all to well..the cost of living in so called paradise!! Anyhow I'm headed into volcano as I'm typing so I will be sure to reply with better grammar etc!! Because I'm on my mobile phone ugh hard to see and type..anyhow major Aloha to you and your Ohana also blessings to your friends who are visiting praying for a good Health out come God Bless you and yours :) A hui hou Malama pono :))

[Rose Fruean]

Hi David I have been ill since the last time we talked how's things going ? Here things are quite ugly weather wise..anyhow today I was able to get back into my corel and laser anyhow I don't know if you will know the answer to my question I was able to outline my image with light because I wanted it to engrave lightly on my material anyhow when I do export I get and error issue about invalid ifs found I am not able to understand what that could be I thought I was doing if right anyhow would you know anything about that? All I'm trying to do is export it from export it so I can impor it to corel any help would really be appreciated thanks in advance :) Mahalo Nui

[Roy Nielsen]

Aloha Rose,

I believe what you'll find you need to do is to save your files to be compatible with an older version of CorelDraw before you can import into LaserCut 5.3. I'm not sure how far back you have to go and can go with X6, but you might start with 11 and work your way up through 12, X3, X4, X5 until the file doesn't import into LaserCut. To do that, go to File, Save As, and look for a Version button (in 12, it is on the right side of the Save dialog) and select the older version.

You might also consider finding an older copy of Corel Draw for sale. I bought my laser about a year ago, slightly used. The previous owner told me that Corel Draw 12 was the newest that would work (I believe that X3 and maybe X4 also work). At least with 12, you can set up a little button in Corel Draw that allows you to send the output directly from Corel Draw to Laser Cut's setup/control program.

I spent 4-1/2 years at Hickam, from winter 90 to summer 94. I have very fond memories of that time. Did get to the Big Island for a short trip in 91.

Aloha,
Roy




Hi sorry I was so confused myself let me explain myself better. Sorry for the confusion. I purchased my 60 watt laser cut engraver specifically to engrave fonts and outlines of pictures don't need the detail of pictures.
So once I got the machine I was told to purchase corel x6. Little did I know that there was two different types the home and suite and the x6 suite. I bought the home and suite. So that one came with corel photo paint. So as I tried to engrave I didn't know all the things that needed to be edited and I had people telling me all different types of things from auto cad too dxf which made me very confused.
So at this point, all I want to do is get a simple outline trace of my image. However when I try too import into laser cut 5.3 it won't because my laser cut was set up to be compatible with corel 11...anyhow I was still able to import images from the corel draw but once I import it into laser cut I'm not able to get the back ground taken out. I did ask around, and just got more confused. Sorry so long I hope you can understand me much better now. Aloha