Inca 259 v. SawStop?

[Evan Patton]

I'd pretty much convinced myself that I could live without a table saw, and if I did need one, I'd get a SawStop. This week I came across an Inca 259 10" tilting-table saw with mortiser that's causing me to rethink things, and I'd like opinions on how to proceed.

A little background--15 years ago I was really into woodworking, but was limited by space and funds. After a few life changes and some time, I find myself with the ability to put together a shop and get back into it. Back when I was into woodworking, Inca was an unreachable goal. It was the ne plus ultra of small equipment--precise enough for turning out the highest quality work, and with a price to match, but small enough to fit into hobbyist shops.

Fast forwarding, I've got a good band saw, a 12" jointer/planer with helical knives, and enough Festool stuff to think I don't need a table saw. Now that I've found this quirky little green machine, however, I'm thinking it sure would be nice to have a little table saw, not to mention the mortising table (which I'm sure could be duplicated by the CMS).

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Evan

[mike holden]

Sounds like you have an itch to scratch.
You lusted for an inca in the past, and now that one is available to you, you want it.
Assuming you can get it and keep food on the table and a roof over your head - go for it.
Even if you turn around and sell it, you will have finally owned the object of your dreams.
Mike

[Judson Green]

2nd that.

You could easily sell it if you decided its not for you.

Go for it!

[Evan Patton]

Man I love enablers!!! :D
I had similar thoughts. Worst case I'd lose a couple hundred bucks on the deal (assuming I don't succumb to one of the accidents SawStop likes to highlight in their marketing materials).

[Rich Riddle]

I had an Inca 259 and loved it. You have to take the good with the bad though. It sits much higher on the stand than a traditional table saw, you won't be cutting sheets with it, the blade is small, the fence leaves quite a bit to be desired, etc. The good side is the machine makes extremely good cuts and for working with small pieces it places them closer to eye level. The tilting table part comes out neutral, some love it and some hate it. The table moves up and down on that saw, not the blade by the way. Don't own a Sawstop but have used them a lot in military hobby shops. After using many types there, went with a European slider.

[Evan Patton]

Rich,
Thanks. One of the thinks I like about the SawStop is dust collection, which is non-existent on the Inca. I won't use the bevel cutting, and the raising/lowering table may get to be a drag, although with small pieces it's less of an issue.

Did you use the mortiser at all? If so, what bits does it take?

Evan

[Loren Woirhaye]

INCA 259 is a good tool for joinery.

Sawstop is a cabinet saw, a tool usually set up for breaking up plywood.

Most of the dust on the INCA falls through the hole in the base to which a dust port or chute can be attached.

[Kevin Jenness]

I had that saw for a while. If you are doing only small work it may suit you. I found the table rise/fall annoyingly slow and the tilting table a nuisance. Be aware that you can't lower a 10" blade below the table. The machine as a whole is well put together, but too light for a lot of work. The mortising table stops are not reliable- I replaced them with a grub screw/collar arrangement- and the setup is too light for much more than chair parts or similar scale. The arbor rotates counterclockwise, so you will not be able to use standard end mills; birdsmouth style bits are available from various sources like Morris Tool.

[Art Mann]

I just looked it up on the internet and I can't imagine what I would do with it if I owned one.

[Evan Patton]

I had that saw for a while. If you are doing only small work it may suit you. I found the table rise/fall annoyingly slow and the tilting table a nuisance. Be aware that you can't lower a 10" blade below the table. The machine as a whole is well put together, but too light for a lot of work. The mortising table stops are not reliable- I replaced them with a grub screw/collar arrangement- and the setup is too light for much more than chair parts or similar scale. The arbor rotates counterclockwise, so you will not be able to use standard end mills; birdsmouth style bits are available from various sources like Morris Tool.

Kevin,
Wouldn't the rotation be clockwise in reference to the piece being mortised?

Evan

[Loren Woirhaye]

I mortised with it using router bits. They turned the correct direction.

Jointer/planer/mortiser combos that lack a reversing motor require special bits for mortising. The Kity K5 mortiser is like that. The Robland XSD has a reverse switch that makes the cutterhead turn backwards so standard end mills or router bits can be used in the mortiser chuck. Those are the ones I have experience with.

[Evan Patton]

Thanks Loren.

[Kevin Jenness]

Sorry, my thinking was reversed. Loren is correct.

[Jim Barstow]

If there ever was a thread which was tailor made for my expertise, this is it.

I got inca machines in 1983 (table saw, jointer/planer, and bandsaw). We built a second house 5 years ago and I got a big shop in which I put a sawstop. I built some pretty big and ambitious projects with the inca. In retrospect, I'm amazed at what I could actually do with the Inca in comparison with how easy (and more accurate) it is on the sawstop.

For what it is, the Inca is a great machine. The bottom line, however, is that if you have the space and money for a sawstop there is absolutely no comparison: the sawstop wins overwhelmingly in every category. A couple specifics:

1. Accuracy
Sure you can be accurate with an inca if you work at it. What makes a table saw accurate? Alignment, tolerances, and the care with which you use it. Despite the Inca's reputation for accuracy, the sawstop is just as good. When setting a cut up, the sawstop (with the Incra fence I have) is easy. The Inca takes lots of fiddling and careful adjustment. The end result was probably close but the Inca took a lot more work.

2. Tilting table
What a pain. Don't believe anyone who says it has positive aspects. (The only positive thing I can think of is that it makes the mortising table easy to implement.)

3. Depth of cut
You can't use a 10" blade and lower it all the way. I always had both 10" and 8" blades. This is an enormous PITA.

4. Mortising table
Has its uses but I ended up cutting most mortises with a bench top moriser or a router. It's ok for working on small pieces of wood but forget using it for
mortises in anything like a bed frame.

5. Arbor
The arbor is metric and you will have to get blades redrilled. I used Forest Woodworker II blade and they redrilled it but you always have to keep this in mind.

6. Dust collection
I built a dust collection system for my Inca but it didn't work that well. The sawstop dust collection isn't great but it is definitely better than the Inca.

7. Safety
I'm 58 and I've had 1 shop injury when I ran my thumb into the blade on the inca. No stitches but lots of blood. (It also happened 2 days before a trip to Hawaii and the doctor said I couldn't get it wet for 2 weeks...) Would never have happened on a sawstop.

8. Service
Inca? Service? Forget it. Eagle tools has some parts but the last time I needed a part, they didn't have it. Sawstop has great service.

After building the larger shop, I kept my inca equipment in the smaller shop for a couple years. I used them occasionally but sold them all last year. If I need a table saw in the city, I'll buy a Bosch. I know people who love it, it seems high quality, and it folds up on its stand

[Evan Patton]

Jim,
That's exactly the analysis I was looking for. Thanks!

I'm still going to look at the saw tomorrow morning, and if I can get it for a decent price I'll pull the trigger, but I think time and technology has moved the goal line on Inca.

Thanks everyone for the helpful advice.

Evan

[Jon Middleton]

I had one of those Incas a long time ago. The table supports galled, which made tilting the table difficult. It's a very small saw, so is limited in what you can do with it. I'm better off with my Powermatic 66.

[Rick Potter]

Maybe you should get a ShopSmith. It does a lot of stuff in a small space. It is another niche product you could buy, and sell later if you don't like it.

Rick Potter

[Jim Matthews]

There's an INCA tools group on Yahoo.

You might want to browse the values posted there.
In my opinion, the little tables saw is the least useful of their tools.

The advantage of lightweight construction is mobility.

I found the top to be too small to offer much utility.
More can be done, on smaller stock with hand tools.

More can be done, on larger panels with a circular saw and edge guide.

There are some Big Dogs that still use theirs for fine work, but this can be an expensive piece of shop jewelry.

(I've got one in my garage, so that I can set it up as an upright mortiser - someday.)

FYI - The little two wheel bandsaw made by INCA? That's an excellent tool.
The TERSA head version of their Jointer/Planer? Exquisite but finnicky.

[Evan Patton]

Maybe you should get a ShopSmith. It does a lot of stuff in a small space. It is another niche product you could buy, and sell later if you don't like it.

Rick Potter
Is Shopsmith even in close to the Inca in precision/quality? My previous table saw was a 1929 12" Davis and Wells, so I got used to no vibration and a smooth running machine. Don't think I'd like a Shopsmith at all (not sure I'll like the Inca for that matter).

[Evan Patton]

There's an INCA tools group on Yahoo.

You might want to browse the values posted there.
In my opinion, the little tables saw is the least useful of their tools.


I just applied to join the Yahoo group. Not sure I'll get access before I look at the saw this morning.

[Evan Patton]

Well I'm now the proud owner of an Inca 259. Thanks to all you enablers and voices of reason.

I did not get a screaming deal, but didn't get fleeced (at least not as far as Bay Area prices go). I think it will meet my needs for a while, and am actually pretty excited to try out the mortiser. Worst case I get tired/frustrated and send it on its Craigslist way. Forest 10" blade and a Leeway splitter are on their way.