Sharpening advice

[Shannon Brantley]

I'm about to hot-rod my sharpening. I've used water stones for a while. Now my wife is getting into carving and I suddenly have to sharpen things that are not flat. I've been thinking of upgrading to power sharpeners for a while and now this seems like a good excuse to do it, and best of all, it's 'for my wife'.

So here we go. I was about to pull the trigger on the T-7 when I stumbled upon CBN wheels. Seems like just my style, little to no maintenance or mess. All the info I can find is from turners. The 180 grit makes turning tools 'scary sharp' according to what I've read, but I don't know how that would compare to the edge I get from extreme fine waterstones and strop leather. I've talked to the CBN guy and he can get a custom 240 grit wheel for a more polished edge. It looks like I can get a slow speed grinder, 8" 180 and 240 grit CDN wheels, and some jigs for slightly less than the T-7 alone, not counting the jigs that I'd need for that.

What I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around is how 240 grit will get as good of an edge as 1000 grit. Do any of you guys have any experience with these wheels with anything other than turning tools? What are down sides? Anything else I should know?

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Shannon

I have heard positive comments from turners about sharpening their HSS chisels on CBN wheels. These wheels promise little heat, and a smooth(ish) grind on a wheel that does not ever need flattening or cleaning. The issue is that these wheels are suitable for turners where the advantage is low maintenance and a quick path to sharp. However, the question is whether you will get equally good results for planes and chisels. My expectation is that this is not where the advantage lies for woodworkers. For grinding chisels and plane blades the advantage would be reducing heat and low maintenance. You will still need to hone the edges since 1000 grit (your rating not mine - I'd say that you are looking at about 400 grit at best) is not good enough for edge retention or ease of work. Cost aside (they are expensive but that is a personal decision of what you can afford), the wheels seem to offer more than the usual types, but whether this is as much as what you expect is another matter - sharp for a turner is not sharp for a plane user.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

- sharp for a turner is not sharp for a plane user.

As one who sharpens both plane blades and turning tools I can agree with this. Though it is fun to get a super edge on a turning tool, it just doesn't last that long against a spinning piece of wood. A 4" diameter piece at 600 RPM is presenting more than 10' of surface per second to a tool's edge.

That just gave me another thought about turning. I wonder if a super sharp tool is more likely to catch than one that isn't so sharp.

jtk

[Shannon Brantley]

Thanks guys. That's exactly what I was worried about. And 10' per second really puts it in perspective when you think about the time it takes to get 10' out of a chisel. Looks like the t-7 is back out front.

[Jim Koepke]

Shannon,

Didn't notice this yesterday, but a BIG Welcome to the Creek. You do not have your location listed in your profile. If you live near me I would be happy to have you over some day and you can test drive my sharpening set up.

For power sharpening there is a Veritas Mk.II Power Sharpening System from Lee-Valley.

I also have a hand crank grinder.

For carving tools the Mk.II PSS works great.

On the honing side I prefer to use my oil stones as they can be a little tricky on water stones. If one isn't real careful they can snag and take out a divot. Though I did just order an 8000 grit slip water stone. Even out channel carving tools need work on the inside edge.

I have also been looking at a hard Arkansas slip.

jtk

[David Weaver]

Thanks guys. That's exactly what I was worried about. And 10' per second really puts it in perspective when you think about the time it takes to get 10' out of a chisel. Looks like the t-7 is back out front.

I wouldn't rely on the tormek to sharpen carving tools. It'll drive you crazy.

You either want a powered leather wheel and a hard buff (or shaped versions of those) or to sharpen by hand with oilstones or charged strops and slips. You won't need a power grinder much for carving tools, and if you do, it's an indication of changing how you're working or how the tool is set up.

[jamie shard]

Sharpening Profiled Hand Tools is one of the best videos for showing fast ways to sharpen curved blades, including carving tools. He mostly uses a dremel-like handpiece for the rough sharpening.

[Erik Christensen]

I have had a tormek for a couple of years and I use it a fair amount but not for the things I thought I would when i got it. I thought it would be the best thing I could use for sharpening straight/flat things like hand plane blades or chisels; but it takes so long to setup and use, that for those things, I rely on water stones and a guide. The tormek is great for re-establishing the hollow grind or taking out a nick in the edge but for a fast sharpening it takes 3-5 times longer than the water stones.

Where the Tormek shines is in curved tools - gouges, carving tools - it lets you shape the edge precisely and not worry about heat or over doing it. the leather strop can put a nice finished edge on even the smallest tools and to re-sharpen a small carving tool sometimes all I do is a turn on the leather wheel to rebuild the edge.

[Warren Mickley]

I use three Arkansas stones, a slip stone, and a clean leather strop to sharpen carving tools. It takes about 25 seconds. Carving tools are delicate. The wheels you are talking about will make a mess of carving tools. I have never used any kind of motorized appliance, nor have I seen such used in other professional shops.

[David Weaver]

A couple of the professionals on this forum (carving) have stated that they use powered strops or buffs, but never grinders.

[Shannon Brantley]

Great stuff. Thanks guys. Only thing I'll throw back, and I should have been more specific, but she's carving spoons and bowls, so her gouges are pretty substantial.

[Shannon Brantley]

Almost forgot. Jim, thanks for the invite but I'm in south Alabama. I'll get my profile up to snuff.

[Steve Friedman]

I struggle with spoon and bowl carving gouges for a couple of reasons. First, the gouges are much wider than typical carving gouges, so the commercial strops are too small. Next, with bent, spoon, and dog leg gouges, I have a very hard time maintaining the right bevel angle when trying to sharpen by moving the gouge across the abrasive. I have even tried the Ross Oar carving gouge jig from TFWW, but never quite got the hang of it. It seems to work best with small and medium sized straight gouges. The final problem is finding a sharpening medium that your gouges won't ruin.

I find that the easiest method of maintaining the proper angle is to take the abrasive to the gouge. Clamp the gouge in a vise, mark the edge with a Sharpie, and follow the bevel with the stone or strop. Slow, but very effective.

I have done this with EZ-Lap diamond plates and Spyderco ceramic stones, but the simplest (because they're the lightest and most maneuverable) is a series of flat hardwood paddles with PSA abrasive stuck on. Most effective abrasive is probably the 3M Diamond Lapping Film from Lee Valley. Since you move the abrasive away from the edge, there is really no chance of cutting into the film. I also attach PSA abrasive to a series of dowels to remove the burr from the insides of the gouges.

For flat blades I use water stones, but they're too soft for me to be able to use without "gouging" the surface of the stone and then spend forever re-flattening them.

By the way, I also have the DMT diamond "Wave" in both grits, but even that's too narrow for many of my gouges. Also, after getting used to the feedback you get from water stones, I really don't like the feel of steel on diamond plates. I have tried powered methods (1 x 42 belt sander/grinder and Veritas Power Mk II), and have the blued edges to show it.

Pretty much the only thing I haven't tried (yet) are oil stones and that's probably next (I know, I'm letting David Weaver get inside my head).

Hope some of that helps.

Steve

[Derek Cohen]

I'm about to hot-rod my sharpening. I've used water stones for a while. Now my wife is getting into carving and I suddenly have to sharpen things that are not flat. I've been thinking of upgrading to power sharpeners for a while and now this seems like a good excuse to do it, and best of all, it's 'for my wife'.

So here we go. I was about to pull the trigger on the T-7 ....

Hi again Shannon

I also purchase a lot of tools for my wife ..... :)

As others have written, carving chisels are best honed with strops. Some prefer power strops, some hand. I have both, with the power strops on the Tormek. Mostly I use a bunch of hand strops as I feel there is more control here. With a delicate touch, the power strops can also work very well.

I like the Tormek but it is principally intended for bench chisels and plane blades. Perhaps your wife may take up cabinetmaking in the future and you should get one now in readiness. :)

Regards from Perth

Derek

[jamie shard]

If you are basically gearing up only for gouge sharpening, take a look at "Rob Cosman Master Craftsman Series "Woodcarving #1 Sharpening Techniques with Chris Pye" DVD". It presents the straightforward way to use oil stones and a grinder. You really only need a grinder for the initial set up of the tool. After that, rough and fine oilstones and a strop give the final, very sharp edge needed for carving.

[Tom M King]

Try the Diamond Lapping Film sold by LV. I don't do carving tools much, but it's great stuff for odd shaped irons on molding planes, and I use it for final honing on chisels and irons too.

I have gone to a CBN wheel for grinding, and will probably never use a water grinder again. I haven't used it much yet, but the first time I went right from the D-way 150 wheel to an 8,000 water stone, and finished on the lapping film that I keep mounted on a small surface plate. All together it might have taken a minute or so from regrind to finished edge, and polished back. The CBN wheel is FAST, and SMOOTH, no heat, with no fiddling with truing or balancing the wheel, or water mess.