Need advice on a new smoothing plane

[Pat Barry]

I am looking for what is termed, I believe, a new smoothing plane.

All the discussion regarding handle design, bevel up vs bevel down, chip breaker setting, secondary bevels, convex grinds, etc as me excited about improving my own woodworking capability. I feel I am perhaps limited by my tools as well as my knowledge and and expertise (naivete I believe is the proper term).

Maybe a bit more about my application. Woods of prime interest are hard and soft and curly maples, pine, walnut, white ash, red and white oak. Nothing exotic and particularly difficult like some folks here frequently work with. Maybe even just a focus on the finer woods of this type (ie - don't worry about trying to come up with something for the red oak which is so despised by some). I have an assortment of Stanley, Bailey, Great Neck, Buck Bros, other old off brands. I have far too many Jack planes and not one go-to smoother. What I'd like to do is dedicate one carefully adjusted plane to my final finishing work.

I suspect everyone here has their own thoughts on what would constitute the best plane to look for and buy for this purpose and therefore what I'd like to solicit is thoughts on which one plane each of you endorse most heartily for your own work of this nature. If you wish, then any rationale you have for your choice would be appreciated as well but, please, don't feel like this is what I am asking for - really I just want to integrate and rank the responses by model and type and so that I can dig into each of them with some research and testing perhaps to help me make a final decision. If its a new plane available from LN or LV or where-have-you, or a vintage Stanley, or perhaps a custom built woodie - anyway you wish.

Thank you in advance for sharing your knowledge in this regard.

[allen long]

Pat,

I was not clear on whether you are thinking of rehabbing one of your current planes or obtaining a new one (or a new "old/used" one). Do you have a number 3 or 4 Stanley or Bailey you can refurb?

Short answer, a refurbished Stanley with a new blade could very likely wind up being your go-to plane

Longer answer - I have a Lie Nielsen bronze 4 with a high angle frog and O1 Blade that takes beautiful shavings in maple. Then again, I have my Dad's Stanley Number 3 with an O1 Hock blade and chip breaker that works just as well. An old Stanley 4-1/2 with an A2 IBC blade and chip-breaker that is OK but not as enjoyable as my No 3 and 4 planes. I am getting in a PM-V11 blade for an old rehabbed Stanley 4 that I suspect will work just as well as the Bronze HAF O1 and the Stanley 3 (if my PM-V11 chisels are any indication).

[Adam Cruea]

Pat,

I was not clear on whether you are thinking of rehabbing one of your current planes or obtaining a new one (or a new "old/used" one). Do you have a number 3 or 4 Stanley or Bailey you can refurb?

Short answer, a refurbished Stanley with a new blade could very likely wind up being your go-to plane

Longer answer - I have a Lie Nielsen bronze 4 with a high angle frog and O1 Blade that takes beautiful shavings in maple. Then again, I have my Dad's Stanley Number 3 with an O1 Hock blade and chip breaker that works just as well. An old Stanley 4-1/2 with an A2 IBC blade and chip-breaker that is OK but not as enjoyable as my No 3 and 4 planes. I am getting in a PM-V11 blade for an old rehabbed Stanley 4 that I suspect will work just as well as the Bronze HAF O1 and the Stanley 3 (if my PM-V11 chisels are any indication).

I've got a PM-V11 in my 604 Bedrock and it freaking rocks. Good choice, good choice. :)

[Andrew Fleck]

There is likely going to be as many opinions on this as there are on shapening stones. I just got a Veritas bevel up smoother that works really well for me. I know I'm not the only one who likes this plane. Previously I had been using a Record #4 that didn't work so well.

[Pedro Reyes]

I think that for 90% of your intended use a rehabbed Stanley #4 or #3 with a good iron (Hock or LV) will work as good as anything else. Curly/figured maples may be the exception, but overall true.

I have both #3 and #4 with LN and hock blades (LN does not offer their blades anymore :confused:) as well as a 4-1/2 with HAF from LN, and for the most part they all work the same until I plane curly maple, the the LN stands out.

/p

[Jim Koepke]

I feel I am perhaps limited by my tools as well as my knowledge and and expertise (naivete I believe is the proper term).

In my experience it has seldom been my tools limiting my results.

My old Stanley/Bailey planes have mostly Stanley blades. A few have Hock O1 blades. The finished surface will look just as smooth no matter which blade was used. A brand new plane will not finish the surface any better.

If you have a #3 or #4 you may just need to set it up with a sharp blade and a chip breaker close to the edge to get superior smoothing.

I have even gotten a #6 with a freshly sharpened blade to leave a super smooth surface. I do not like to say "smooth as glass" but the surface will reflect an image when held at an angle.

There are countless theories on "what works best." What works best is what works for you, the individual user.

Most of the time my blades are just straight across sharpened. No, secondary bevel, no camber, no back bevel and no tricks ruler or otherwise.

In my opinion, a bevel down plane with a chip breaker makes a better smoother than a bevel up plane. When taking a shaving in the extremely thin range, there may be no difference. As stated, it is just my opinion.

For smoothing the lightest shavings possible leaves a smoother surface than trying to take off 20 thousandths per stroke.

So maybe we should start with an inventory of what planes you have now and try to determine why they aren't smoothing over the surfaces you want to smooth.

Of course:

285111

jtk

[Kees Heiden]

A made in England Stanley #4 with a Ray Iles iron and the stock chipbreaker. There is nothing better in this world. :p

[Adam Cruea]

In my experience it has seldom been my tools limiting my results.

My old Stanley/Bailey planes have mostly Stanley blades. A few have Hock O1 blades. The finished surface will look just as smooth no matter which blade was used. A brand new plane will not finish the surface any better.

If you have a #3 or #4 you may just need to set it up with a sharp blade and a chip breaker close to the edge to get superior smoothing.

I have even gotten a #6 with a freshly sharpened blade to leave a super smooth surface. I do not like to say "smooth as glass" but the surface will reflect an image when held at an angle.

There are countless theories on "what works best." What works best is what works for you, the individual user.

Most of the time my blades are just straight across sharpened. No, secondary bevel, no camber, no back bevel and no tricks ruler or otherwise.

In my opinion, a bevel down plane with a chip breaker makes a better smoother than a bevel up plane. When taking a shaving in the extremely thin range, there may be no difference. As stated, it is just my opinion.

For smoothing the lightest shavings possible leaves a smoother surface than trying to take off 20 thousandths per stroke.

So maybe we should start with an inventory of what planes you have now and try to determine why they aren't smoothing over the surfaces you want to smooth.

Of course:

285111

jtk

I've found that a "smoother" is really whatever you want to be a smoother. I've used a 604, #7, and a #8. As long as they're set up probably, they'll all leave a wonderful surface and can take super-fluffy shavings.

[Chris Griggs]

I like any well made double iron 45-50 degree No. 3- No 4 ish sized plane for an all purpose smoother for north american woods.

I have two main smoothers that I use...a Bailey 4 and a LV SBUS. I love the SBUS A LOT for smoothing and many other things, and I also use a Miller Falls 15 (5 1/2) for a lot of my smoothing, but for most of what I do I prefer a no 4 sized double iron plane as the go-to smoother.

[steven c newman]

Three smoothers I use all the time in the #4 and #3 size: Wood River #4V3, a Millers Falls T4 #9 and a #8, and a Stanley made Wards #3 WWII era. All of these just wandered in the doorway over time. All have their OEM blades. Love the Millers Falls ones, and that Wards. The WR is for that final few passes, instead of a scrapper, or sanding. Just they wat these planes are set up. Even the Wards will leave a smooth as glass surface.

[David Weaver]

Bone stock vintage Stanley 4. Might need to lap the bottom on a flat surface, like a ts wing or jointer table.

[Jack Curtis]

For smoothers/polishers I always choose Japanese, white paper (high carbon) bevel down; and a good quality one is around the price of a LN/LV. Check out offerings from "thejapanblade" on ebay, sold by Alex Gilmore and his wife. He is happy to help you make a choice. A close second is the ECE Primus Reform Smoother 711, but it doesn't burnish quite as well as the Japanese.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

My go to smoothers for most things are a 603 and a Norris A5. I like the 603 size, it's just a great little plane, and the Norris makes is well, a Norris. You can use anything really though, like was said above.

[Winton Applegate]

OK . . .
money is no object right ?
I have a few choices for you . . .
Well I got dirt cheep , in my view, and I got are you freakin' kidding ? . . . glad I bought one when I did.

First off for the woods you mentioned this would be my first choice. Scary what the high efficiency light bulbs do to my bench color (it is actually way browner than that; just looks purple in the photo.
http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/noydb1/Theveryfirstcurls.jpg (http://s801.photobucket.com/user/noydb1/media/Theveryfirstcurls.jpg.html)


Why a wooden coffin smoother? It is so interesting to own and use. It hardly needs anything on the sole to glide and glide and glide. It is sooooo light and nimble. Designed to plane in many different grips to change direction to follow problem grain. Blade is easily sharpened with oil stones = O1 steel. It was made by a National Treasure who is still alive and working. It is bevel down so you won't be a rogue bevel up junkie rude boy like me. Forever lurking at the fringes of civilization; looking over the fence of respectability and acceptable behavior.

Drawbacks are it has a learning curve and you adjust it with a mallet. The price of a second hand Old Street smoother will take your breath away (but as they say buying the good stuff only hurts once). I am not sure I would buy any old coffin smoother. Maybe some one here can point you at a prize one. I can't.

Problem : you will probably have to buy one second hand on the internet. Unless status has changed Old Street Tools isn't excepting new orders.
http://www.planemaker.com/products.html

I think you would do fine with the bevel down bedrocks that others are recommending for the wood you want to work.
HOWEVER
The planes I use the most would be OH SO SEXY for about any wood so here is what I use and what I recommend for you :
As you probably know I am ALLLL ABOUT the LV wide BU smoother because that is what I have (the wide one). You would maybe do fine getting the narrower one. It is lighter, more maneuverable on smaller projects and for all I know (since I don't have a narrow one) would cut exactly as well for you.

Why do I like the LV BU smoother ? It is so precisely made; it is so inexspensive for such a high quality plane; no fettling what so ever. I love the Nice adjustable throat. with the stop. Super fast and easy to set up and use. No learning curve. Put a sharp blade in it and you are making a world class surface just that easy. SOOOOO EASY TO ADJUST THE CUT IT IS LIKE A CADILAC OR A BENTLEY.


http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/noydb1/OhYah.jpg (http://s801.photobucket.com/user/noydb1/media/OhYah.jpg.html)


http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=51870&cat=1,41182,41187&ap=1


The Old Street coffin smoother that I mentioned first is at least as accurately made as well. I was totally blown out of my chair when I started really looking at it and measuring . . . I am without words to tell you what a finely crafted plane it is AND IN WOOD !
OK
getting back to the Varitas / LV BU
I really, really like the norris style blade adjuster MUCH better than the funny/sloppy Stanley wheely things. Yuck.
I like the handle better as you have heard me harping on in recent posts.

ALSO

you would probably do just fine with the Varitas / LV BU little block plane with the optional totes. Used as a smoother. It winds up being the same size as the Old Street coffin smoother.

Same quality plane as the other Varitas smoothers I listed above. Same adjuster, same precision, similar handle that I like just fine. Nice adjustable throat. does not have the stop though. Not as robust for taking heavier cuts etc., but you won't be doing that with your smoother anyway and when you take the optional handles off you have a one handed block plane.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=47881&cat=1,41182,48942


http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=41715&cat=1,41182,48942


And lastly if you want to make the Old Street look inexpensive you can gander at these.
http://www.marcouplanes.com/Marcou_Planes_0_Gallery.php
I haven't bought one yet but it is just a matter of time. Hey . . . now I know what I want for next Christmas.

Why buy a plane like a Marcou?
First let me say that some times I think only cabinet makers can appreciate high end cabinet making.

So if you are a metal head like I am sitting and staring at a metal tool made like a Marcou is made, or a Holtey, well . . .
That's Heven.

I got the Old Street for Christmas two years ago. Took a year to get it so I skipped Christmas that year main present wise. No plane . . . pining for my plane . . . Where is my plane . . . . THEN (many months later) IT CAME ! YEAH !

I suppose all that was more than you wanted but there it is.

Happy hunting !

[Adam Cruea]

Having a couple mortise chisels in D2, I have *no* clue why you would offer a D2 blade in a smoother.

[Kees Heiden]

Adam, was that comment adressed to me? My Ray Iles iron is made from O1.

[Adam Cruea]

Adam, was that comment adressed to me? My Ray Iles iron is made from O1.


Oh, no. The Marcou planes. The smoothers are offered with D2 or O1 blades.

[Kees Heiden]

Aha I see. Ray Iles also offers them in D2 and O1.
I guess the Marcou planes, made in New Zealand have the option of the D2 blade for the vitrified woods from their Australian neighbours.

[Adam Cruea]

Yeah, that's all I can think, but in my experience D2 doesn't take a keen enough edge for something I'd use for smoothing. But hey, maybe I'm an idiot. :)

I mean, A2 is plenty tough enough for me when I work hickory and other exotics; D2 really is something I'd only use for a mortise chisel (hence why I love my Ray Isles mortisers).

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Adam

Philip (Marcou) has been a supporter of D2 in smoothers for quite a few years. He has them heat treated differently from the RI mortice chisels. I've not used the D2 blades of his, but he would not recommend them if they did not work as well as he says they do.

I do have a D2 blade in my jack plane. This is a custom blade (5/16" thick!) and it does take an excellent edge, and hold it.

Not sure what all this means - just that it can work.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Adam Cruea]

Hi Adam

Philip (Marcou) has been a supporter of D2 in smoothers for quite a few years. He has them heat treated differently from the RI mortice chisels. I've not used the D2 blades of his, but he would not recommend them if they did not work as well as he says they do.

I do have a D2 blade in my jack plane. This is a custom blade (5/16" thick!) and it does take an excellent edge, and hold it.

Not sure what all this means - just that it can work.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Ahhh, thanks for the clarification! I figured from looking at the planes there was something I didn't get, but hey anything is possible. And I know the D2 of the Isles chisels was a PITA to sharpen.

[Curt Putnam]

Since this is a survey - I guess I get to chime in.

I have 5 smoothers: a Bailey # 3 w/ no improvements. A TablesawTom Bailey # 4 with LV iron & chipbreaker. An LV BUS (the 2 1/4") model and the little SBUS (# 3 sized) with PM-V11 iron. And last, but not least, an LN bronze # 4 with 55° frog. I like them all although I have not yet used the LN much.

Which one plane would I choose? Really tough call, project size makes a difference, wood makes a difference, yadda yadda. Just for the pure joy of using it, I'd probably go with the LV SBUS - it's just that sweet. It can do it all but it's a little small for the larger panels I'm working with now ( 36" x 24" ).

[Pat Barry]

Since this is a survey - I guess I get to chime in.

I have 5 smoothers: a Bailey # 3 w/ no improvements. A TablesawTom Bailey # 4 with LV iron & chipbreaker. An LV BUS (the 2 1/4") model and the little SBUS (# 3 sized) with PM-V11 iron. And last, but not least, an LN bronze # 4 with 55° frog. I like them all although I have not yet used the LN much.

Which one plane would I choose? Really tough call, project size makes a difference, wood makes a difference, yadda yadda. Just for the pure joy of using it, I'd probably go with the LV SBUS - it's just that sweet. It can do it all but it's a little small for the larger panels I'm working with now ( 36" x 24" ).

Curt, I have been looking at the LV SBUS plane. In fact, that it part of the reason for my question. Which blade angle do you recommend for this plane? 25, 38, or 50 degree?

[Derek Cohen]

Pat

My long-standing recommendation has been that BU plane users, who sharpen using cambers, only purchase and use blades with 25 degree bevels. A camber is more difficult to add to a thick blade, and the 38 degrees is thicker than the 25- and the 50 degree is thicker still. Adding the higher angle and camber simultaneously as a secondary bevel on a low (25 degree) primary bevel is the way to go.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/TheSecretToCamberinBUPlaneBlades.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Warren Mickley]

Since 1981 I have used only one plane for smoothing: an old Bailey #3. It has handled every wood I have wanted to plane. I have never fouled a surface from this plane with scraping or sanding.

I have not made a wooden smoothing plane since 1976, but I would like to see if I could make one to perform as well as the Bailey. I think the cabinetmakers of 1790 expected the same standards.

[David Weaver]

I have not made a wooden smoothing plane since 1976, but I would like to see if I could make one to perform as well as the Bailey.

It would be difficult to make one any better (better in terms of what an experienced user is capable with a plane). I've tried some of the better pattern (older handled coffin types and good quality english coffin) wooden smoothers and I don't like them as much as bailey patterns. There is something very ideal about the (for me the #4) bailey pattern plane. It's fast to sharpen, it's the right weight, the orientation of all of the parts is just right and no tearout. And it's inexpensive.

I used to read your comments about never running across anything that couldn't be planed well by the bailey planes and squint a little with one eye when I read it, but it's turned out to be true and the amount of skill that's implied by a statement like that is misleading to some. If a beginner had only a bailey pattern plane to use and understood the cap iron, they would be of the same mind very quickly. The rest of the stuff that's marketed is sort of like those goofy spider shaped knife sharpening contraptions for a couple of hundred bucks. In the end, it takes longer to sharpen the knife and it costs more for no additonal benefit.

[Jim Matthews]

I would choose the plane you already own with the finest adjustment mechanism,
and finely tune the blade that fits best. A mild camber on my smoother suits me.
The sides of the blade are lightly turned up, like Mona Lisa's smile.

I like to have the smoother blade nearly flat across it's width.

The suggestion of the coffin smoother above isn't specious, it points to the hidden strong
point of wooden body planes; their fine adjustment potential.

If your cast iron plane has a coarse adjustment method, try tapping the blade with a hammer to get finer settings.

I've seen some really coarse looking planes produce beautiful surfaces in an efficient manner.
The challenge is getting this kind of performance.

[Pat Barry]

I would choose the plane you already own with the finest adjustment mechanism,
and finely tune the blade that fits best. A mild camber on my smoother suits me.
The sides of the blade are lightly turned up, like Mona Lisa's smile.

I like to have the smoother blade nearly flat across it's width.

The suggestion of the coffin smoother above isn't specious, it points to the hidden strong
point of wooden body planes; their fine adjustment potential.

If your cast iron plane has a coarse adjustment method, try tapping the blade with a hammer to get finer settings.

I've seen some really coarse looking planes produce beautiful surfaces in an efficient manner.
The challenge is getting this kind of performance.

Yes - the adjustment mechanism has lots of backlash so it is very tedious to tweak the knob and creep up on the thickness setting, only to go beyond slightly and then have to go thru all the backlash to get it back to where I can start adjusting again. I suppose I am trying to be too precise with an instrument that is not capable. I never considered tapping on the blade with a hammer, but I sure have thought about throwing the whole plane across the room in frustration. :)

[Pedro Reyes]

Yes - the adjustment mechanism has lots of backlash so it is very tedious to tweak the knob and creep up on the thickness setting, only to go beyond slightly and then have to go thru all the backlash to get it back to where I can start adjusting again. I suppose I am trying to be too precise with an instrument that is not capable. I never considered tapping on the blade with a hammer, but I sure have thought about throwing the whole plane across the room in frustration. :)

IMO backlash is not that big of a deal, as is not the ability (or inability rather) to move the frog back and forth with that screw. Most of us (not all) have more than one plane (like 2 #5s) so the frog is set for an operation and pretty much stays there forever. The depth backlash, like I said does not bother me, I do adjust often, but it is not (back and forth back and forth).

As someone mentioned my cheapo fleabay #4 works awesome on most anything.

Speaking of this, I miss what I would call the golden time of Ebay, now there is either pure junk or overpriced mediocrity. Back in those days (early 2000s) I got 5 more #4s, all SW era, each for under $15 or $20. I have them to make one or two great planes out of them. Also back then my local Woodcraft had a tupperware under the register full of blades, they were likely there because no one cared about them, they had been on inventory for a while so things were discounted, this is how I got 2 Holtey blades at 60% off as well as a Samurai laminated blade at 50% off... this blade gets sharp and is very nice are they still made?

inb4 some old timer tells me about the real "golden" days when they got a new #4 for $2.50 and walked uphill both ways yatta yatta yatta...

/p

[Curt Putnam]

Curt, I have been looking at the LV SBUS plane. In fact, that it part of the reason for my question. Which blade angle do you recommend for this plane? 25, 38, or 50 degree?
As Derek said - get all your blades at 25°. It's much easier to add a steeper micro-bevel than it is to grind a 50° back to 25°. I think this makes so much sense - regardless of camber or not. I do not yet camber my blades but I do break the edges .

[Brian Holcombe]

I have a LN #4 in bronze with a 55 degree angle frog. I set the chip breaker tight to the edge and have a very fine hone on the blade and I also set the throat fairly tight but not super tight. Smooths very well, and I generally take a thin cut.

[Jim Matthews]

IMO backlash is not that big of a deal, as is not the ability (or inability rather) to move the frog back and forth with that screw. Most of us (not all) have more than one plane (like 2 #5s) so the frog is set for an operation and pretty much stays there forever. The depth backlash, like I said does not bother me, I do adjust often, but it is not (back and forth back and forth).

As someone mentioned my cheapo fleabay #4 works awesome on most anything./p

If you're constantly adjusting a plane back and forth - yet never shaving off the thickness you're after - it's not really an adjustment.
It's a setting - too coarse or too fine.

A properly adjusted plane will allow you to back off the blade if you're tearing out, or advance the blade if you want to hog off.

That's kind of the point, innit?

[Pedro Reyes]

If you're constantly adjusting a plane back and forth - yet never shaving off the thickness you're after - it's not really an adjustment.
It's a setting - too coarse or too fine.

A properly adjusted plane will allow you to back off the blade if you're tearing out, or advance the blade if you want to hog off.

That's kind of the point, innit?
Can't tell if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me (both OK since I was expressing an opinion). I also don't know if this is semantics misunderstanding.

The frog I don't move once I set it. The depth of cut is set (adjusted) at the beginning of a planing operation, but I don't go back and forth much, and not at all once I find a sweet spot, so it does not bother me if there is a little backlash, that was all I wanted to convey.

/p

[Brian Lefort]

http://www.stanleytools.com/catalog_images/web_detail/12-136_web_detail.jpgnew Stanley #4. Very nice plane, $150.00. I have this, both block planes, and the shoulder plane along with the bevel up jack. all solid tools. Great workers.

[Graham Haydon]

I like my Quangsheng (wood river) #4 and it is fine for smoothing. It would be interesting to contrast your purchase with what you have, i'm not sure you will find it improves things that much if your current planes are in good order. The most pleasing aspect of buying new is not having bits and pieces missing or damaged.

[Pat Barry]

The most pleasing aspect of buying new is not having bits and pieces missing or damaged.
That could be part of it. Plus, I really want to try something new. I do have a new Buck Bros smoother but I rarely use it (actually its probably 15 years old now that I think of it and I still keep it in the original box)

[Bobby O'Neal]

My smoother is a WoodRiver V3 #5. Works like a charm.

[bob blakeborough]

There is likely going to be as many opinions on this as there are on shapening stones. I just got a Veritas bevel up smoother that works really well for me. I know I'm not the only one who likes this plane. Previously I had been using a Record #4 that didn't work so well.I have many planes, and this one is by far my absolute favourite tool in the shop! I have never run across a piece of gnarly wood it won't tame. If I was told tomorrow I have to get rid of all my planes except one and I could only ever own that one, it would be this plane I kept...

[Pat Barry]

Well first I'd like to thank everyone for their input.
Second admit my discovery that my Bailey plane is actually a #3, not a #4.
My #4 is a HD Buck Brothers that is loose and a PITA to hold and use.
Third - post the results:
40 response total
10 = Stanley / Bailey #4
7 = Stanley / Bailey #3
3 = LN #4
2 = LV SBUS
2 = LV LBUS
2 = other brand # 4 (Record, woodriver)
16 = one vote each for a huge variety including wooden coffin smoothers, Old Street, Norris A5, japanese style smoothers, #603, #604, # 4 1/2, #7, and #8

I am ready to order the LV SBUS or LBUS. I also plan to search the antique stores and flea markets for an old Stanley Bailey #4 and buy a new / upgraded blade for it and the #3 as well.

Thanks again for all your thoughts on this

[paul cottingham]

Just a quick suggestion. If you buy the LV plane, get the one that has the same blade as their jointer and jack. That way you can interchange blades easily, and only buy one each of the toothed or higher angle blades if you ever decide you need them.

[steven c newman]

Before you throw away that Buck Brothers POS plane-like object....REMOVE that iron. That is about the only GOOD thing in those planes. I have one in a Stanley #5 rebuild. Once flat and sharp, really a nice 2" iron. I have sharpened that iron twice in over a year's worth of work. Almost like a 14" long smooth plane.

While some will say get the extra irons for those fancy planes, as they fit several others, remember, you would also have to BUY those other planes, with their irons, too. With those Buck Brother irons ($3 @ HD) one can buy a nice group 9 clean off the hook on that shelf) and grind each just a little different. Maybe a straight edged one, one with just the corners knocked back, one with a slight camber, and another with a big, honking camber. 2" irons will fit both the #4s and the #5s out there. Save the chip breaker as well, as Buck Brothers don't sell them. Lever cap? ehhhhh, not so good....