Powermatic 66 refurbish

[jim tritz]

I posted last week on A 1997 Powermatic 66 that I picked up on Craigslist. I have decided it would be fun to chronicle the refurbishing journey a long the way. I am going to take before and after pictures of each step and also log man hours and material costs along the way. I am interested in seeing how many hours and dollars this ends up costing in the long run.
This will be my first refurbish of anything of this magnitude and it will hopefully be a fun and rewarding experience.
I know I will run into many problems, issues and questions along the way. I will be leaning heavily on this forum for advice and know how and based what I have read on here over the last several months I know you all will be a big help. Looking forward to the journey. Here are the first picks from the progress on the Table top.

[Alden Miller]

Your table top looks good. I was expecting it would clean up nicely.

What did you end up using to clean it?

-Alden

[jim tritz]

Alden,
I used and ROS starting with 80,120 and then 180. Lastly, I wet sanded with 600 and WD40. Finished with 2 coats of Johnson Paste wax. For the mitre slots, I used a thin wire brush on a cordless drill.

[Alden Miller]

It came out looking purty!

I have used a ROS with Abralon 500, 1000, and 4000. But I did not have as much oxidization to start with even after it was in the fire. I was able to get the fire department to put a tarp over it before turning the hoses on since the building it was in was only slightly involved.

-Alden

[Rich Riddle]

Congratulations on the saw. I think it's one of the best table saws made and love he old Powermatic line. The top came out looking quite nice and offers an alternative to those you run toward the rust removal products. Yours looks much nicer. Hope the rest of your renovation looks as nice. That saw will last your lifetime.

[jeff vanek]

Looks good so far !

[Jamie Lynch]

Very nice so far!

[jim tritz]

Thanks Guys for the comments. Spent most of today taking it all apart and gutting it down to the cabinet. I found a guy local here to sand blast the cabinet, side rails, fence and the fence guide rail to get ready for repaint. I spent about 4 hours yesterday on the fence rail guide with wire brush and sander and didn't even complete one side. This guy will sand blast everything for $50 bucks. Well worth it I think! I am going to do all the guts by hand. They need alot of clean up, but structurally everything is in good shape. Here are a couple of pics on the gutted cabinet and the guts. Hopefully tomorrow I will have the most of the guts completed and I will post more pics. Thanks again for the input.

[John R Hoppe]

On the trunnion elevator worm gear shaft, be sure the woodruff key that in the lock mechanism is free and easy to move. I put some
anti seize lube in mine when I did the rebuild. Works much better now.

[Doug Ladendorf]

Nice score. I look forward to watching your progress. Good call on the sandblasting. Wish I had done that with my cabinet.

[jim tritz]

Thanks for the comments guys and thanks John for the tip.
I made some progress today on a few of the internal pieces. It is shaping up pretty good so far. I just hope I get all this back together correctly!
Here some before and after pics from todays efforts:

[Don Roberson II]

I rebuilt a PM66 also, loved it. To lubricate the gears & trunnion I used Dupont Teflon Non-Stick Dry-Film Lubricant spray. It works great & sawdust doesn't stick to it

Rustoleum's Hammered paints work great also I used the aerosol cans & sprayed light layers (pic below)

285478

[Doug Ladendorf]

Nicely done Jim. Tips I found helpful in reassembly are to take lots of pictures before taking apart, and bag & label parts. If you have any questions just ask. I can see a few differences between your trunnions and my 1968 PM66.

Don, that paint looks great! I used rattle can too but not the hammered. It gave me a devil of a time but eventually came out fine.

[jim tritz]

Doug, I have been bagging and tagging, taking notes and pictures as well. Getting it back together should go ok, I am just a little worried about getting it all square and lined up correctly. I will look here for advice if I run into any glitches.

Don, your cabinet looks fantastic! I will be thrilled if mine turns out that good. Did you primer it first (Rustolieum Hammered says paint and primer in one). If so, How many coats of primer and also how many coats of finish? Drying time between coats? I am using the Rustolieum Hammered on the non-machined parts of the guts. I also have some concerns about how well the Rustolieum Rattle cans paint will hold up on the rails, fence and fence guide. Did you paint all that the same way and does it hold up pretty well.

Thanks for the help and input

[jim tritz]

Don, one other thing. I am using Boeshield T9 lubricant as I put the parts back together, but I don't have any previous experience with this product. Any thoughts of input. Where did you buy the Dupont Teflon lubricant you used and how often do you have to re-apply? Does it work on the table tops as well or do you do something different for those (paste wax or alternative?) Any one else have thoughts or successful recommendations?

Thanks Don

[Moses Yoder]

What is the purpose in repainting the cabinet? I found a very old PM 66 (serial 3661150) with 1-1/2 HP 3 phase motor and installed an inverter, attached my Biesemeyer fence and smoothed the top removing most of the rust from it and was good to go. I like the vintage look and don't really see any sense in trying to make it look brand new. I can understand cleaning and waxing the interior moving mechanisms.

[Matt Day]

What is the purpose in repainting the cabinet?.

To make it look new and shiny? It's personal preference, and I'd do the same.

[Doug Ladendorf]

Depends on the condition as found. If I don't have to paint I'm elated. My PM66 had lots of small spots where the paint was failing so I decided to bite the bullet up front.

I used. Rustoleum primer, scuff sand then paint. It will chip down to the primer. On the internals I used the silver hammered with no primer. It is much less prone to chip. There was a discussion on OWWM about this and many don't bother with primer now.

There was a recent discussion here about lube for trunnion gears. I like a dry-moly/graphite combo called dri-slide. Many on OWWM use paraffin wax (Gulf-wax etc.) I use T-9 on my cast iron surfaces.

[jim tritz]

Moses,
like Matt says "make it shiny and new". It is a personal preference, but also there is a certain amount of pride that goes along with restoring something old to a like new condition. It's a lot like woodworking for me. I could make a chair with 2x4's and lag bolts that would work just fine for sitting on. But I'm not gonna put it in my house. Same thing with the saw. If I am going to invest time and money in an old classic tool like this, I want it to work well and look like a show piece in the center of my shop.

Doug,
I am also using Rustolieum Hammered Antique Silver on the internals. Looking at a couple of colors for the exterior. Traditionalist may disagree with me, but I am not going with the factory gold on the exterior. I want all the guts and stability this old saw has, but I cant do the Gold. Have not settled on what color I am going to use.

[Thomas Hotchkin]

Don, one other thing. I am using Boeshield T9 lubricant as I put the parts back together, but I don't have any previous experience with this product. Any thoughts of input. Where did you buy the Dupont Teflon lubricant you used and how often do you have to re-apply? Does it work on the table tops as well or do you do something different for those (paste wax or alternative?) Any one else have thoughts or successful recommendations?


Jim
I use a dry moly spray lube. Ever since I saw a group of jet mechanics lubing the fan blades on a Boeing 737-300 engine. They told me the engine builder (GE) required it. Tom

[Ed Edwards]

Jim Trist

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by jim tritzhttp://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=2243787#post2243787)Don, one other thing. I am using Boeshield T9 lubricant as I put the parts back together, but I don't have any previous experience with this product. Any thoughts of input. Where did you buy the Dupont Teflon lubricant you used and how often do you have to re-apply? Does it work on the table tops as well or do you do something different for those (paste wax or alternative?) Any one else have thoughts or successful recommendations?

Jim,
I don't think I'd want to use a Teflon lubricant on the table top, for the same reason as silicone ??? any thoughts
Ed

[Don Roberson II]

Thanks for the comments on the good paint job
No primer. I sanded the cabinet with 220, wiped it down with thinner.
Not sure how many coats I put on, I just made sure everything was covered good. About 15-20 minutes between coats.
The Dupont Teflon spray I got on Amazon, it was around $12 for a spray can. I use it on my saw blades & bandsaw blade as well.
Not sure about putting on the tops though. I use Johnson's Paste Wax for that

[Doug Ladendorf]

Jim, as far as the paint goes it's your saw, your shop, your sweat. Make it what you want. I didn't go traditional either.

[Don Huffer]

I read through the thread and can agree with most. But Your going to devalue the saw by painting it a different color.

[Earl McLain]

I can see your point Don--if the intent is to resell fairly soon. But if the intent is to use the saw--resale value is only important at some unspecified point in the future. May not matter by then. As a future buyer of a cabinet saw, most likely used--i'll be more concerned with the mechanics of the piece than the color. That's just me though.
earl

[John Prexta]

I just finished my 1966 PM 66.
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/836/0gh7.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/n80gh7j)

One thing I noted is that the trunion assembly goes from corner to corner. Then sometime later (seventies maybe) they centered the trunion. Then I saw a new review of the new PM 2000 which reverted back to the way it was in 66. I put a new Powermatic 3hp baldor motor on mine, with a new Biesmeyer fence. Cuts like a dream.

[jim tritz]

Just got the Cabinet, rails, fence guide and a fewinternals back from sandblasting. I am happy with the job. Now time for primerand paint. I still haven't decided what direction to go with the paintingprocess. John, I found you posts over on OWWM. Good info on your restore. Ireally like you cabinet paint job, but if remember your post, you had it powdercoated?? What did you use on the rest of the exterior (rails Fence guide etc.?)I stopped by Sherwin Williams and they were recommending a hard enamel brushcoat. Not too sure about a brush coat, but I may test it on the inside of thecabinet and see what it looks like. Here is a couple of pictures of the sandblasted parts.

Not sure why, but it is not letting me upload files. I will try later

[Thomas Hotchkin]

stopped by Sherwin Williams and they were recommending a hard enamel brushcoat. Not too sure about a brush coat, but I may test it on the inside of thecabinet and see what it looks like. Here is a couple of pictures of the sandblasted parts.

Jim
If you have spray equipment cut it by 50% with thinner and it sprays very nicely. I have used it on both my PM 1200 Drill Press and my Northfield jointer. Tom

[jim tritz]

Finally got the pictures resized to upload. These are after the sandblasting. Going to try to prime tomorrow. Thomas, I have never used a spray gun but I am thinking about picking one up tomorrow. Rockler has one on sale for $119. It comes with 2 needles .9mm and 1.8mm. I know zero zilch nada nothing about spray guns. Never used one. Anybody out there to give a little advice? Is this a decent little unit and if not any recommendations? I have a small porter cable 3 gallon pancake compressor 150 PSI. Can I just buy a spray gun at lowes and use that compressor or is it too much PSI. I am really in foreign territory here Help please! Thanks!

[Jim Andrew]

I have used a spray gun from Harbor Freight, Not the HVLP, but the old style with lots of air. Works great other than the fog, use it outside. And be sure to use a respirator.

[David Winer]

"I know zero zilch nada nothing about spray guns. Never used one. Anybody out there to give a little advice?"
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________

The type of spray system you are thinking of seems like the inexpensive type I had for many years--a compressor that runs continuously without an intermediate storage tank. This worked well enough for my occasional use but had a serious drawback in that the airstream through the gun continued after the trigger released. Result was a constant blast of air that required attention to where it was pointed when not actually spraying. Another problem was that it constantly roared loudly, quite annoying, but I learned to live with it. The compressor finally wore out and I replaced it with another, larger, more expensive, type that sucked paint from a bucket but that took much too much trouble to learn, use, and clean after use.

I now have the Earlex unit (available from Rockler and other places). This is, for my occasional use, far superior to either of the other types. Yes, it costs more than you are considering, but is definitely worth doing a little research by scanning user reviews of the Earlex system before you commit.

EDIT: Just after posting the above I found in my inbox an ad from Woodcraft for the Earlex 5500 (latest improved model) for 300 bucks.

Also, Jim, I forgot to mention earlier what a great job you are doing on the PM 66 refurbishment! Please keep us posted on the project.

[John Prexta]

Just got the Cabinet, rails, fence guide and a fewinternals back from sandblasting. I am happy with the job. Now time for primerand paint. I still haven't decided what direction to go with the paintingprocess. John, I found you posts over on OWWM. Good info on your restore. Ireally like you cabinet paint job, but if remember your post, you had it powdercoated?? What did you use on the rest of the exterior (rails Fence guide etc.?)I stopped by Sherwin Williams and they were recommending a hard enamel brushcoat. Not too sure about a brush coat, but I may test it on the inside of thecabinet and see what it looks like. Here is a couple of pictures of the sandblasted parts.

Not sure why, but it is not letting me upload files. I will try later



I just used cheapy rattle can Krylon quick dry gloss black - after priming. It's going in my friend's commercial shop, so I really mainly wanted to get the mechanicals working correctly. (and it does)

[Doug Ladendorf]

Jim, whatever you get or choose to use practice on some cardboard to be sure your adjustments are what you want and you have a chance to get the hang of it. If you go with an HVLP you should use a larger compressor than the pancake. Check the CFM requirement of the gun vs. your compressor's output. The Earlex system might be your best bet if there are additional projects you can use it on. Checking for used is always an option.

[jim tritz]

David and Doug,
I went with the Earlex for $300 at Woodcraft. Figured it was an investment today that will pay off in the long run. Although I really did not want to invest that much in a spray gun right now, I have several up coming projects and over the long haul I know I will come out ahead.


So, I bought some hard enamel paint recommended by Sherwin Williams. Thinned it out and went to work. The good news is the cardboard I was practicing on looked REALLY GOOD HA! the not so good news is I wasn't quite as good on the cabinet. This new territory for me and its going to be a little bit of a learning curve. That being said, its really not bad, just not as good as I was hoping. The paint is fine, the Gun is great, my technique is just not up to speed yet. I went a little too heavy and have some runs to deal with, but I think I can do some sanding or steel wool to clean it up and with another couple of coats I am confident I can get it looking pretty good.
Thanks again for all the advice guys. I will post Pictures when I get it cleaned up a bit more. Thanks again for all the input and advice

[Don Jarvie]

When I did mine I used Sherwin Williams auto paint. The auto paint sprays a little better and dries quickly like in minutes so you can reapply quickly. They also sell rattle cans of hardener to use as a top coat which really protects the paint.

A tip for spraying is to go across and go past the cabinet each time. This will give you an even coat. Also don't try to cover the whole cabinet in 1 pass. Put the cabinet on a dolly and paint one side spin it and paint the next etc. keep rotating until your happy with the coverage.

[jim tritz]

Don,

Thanks for the advice. I sanded the mistakes off this morning and repainted this afternoon. I was much more comfortable with the gun and technique, plus we had a really nice warm day where I was able to do it outside in some good light which made a huge difference in seeing what I was doing.

Here is a picture after sanding out the runs and re-spraying. It turned out pretty nice this time. I am going to do one more coat. The color is a satin Black. It looks a little gray in this picture, but it really is black. I wrestled with a color choice and after much debate, decided on Black. Black is Classy, and I think this saw deserves classy. It will look good when I get all the attachments, labels and parts back on. I am planning on doing some sort of stripe. I managed to get the original American Flag sticker off in one nice piece and that is going back on this saw as it should. I am excited the painting is almost done so I can start putting it back together. Hope all that goes well.
Once again, you have all been very supportive and helpful and I do appreciate that!

[David Winer]

"The color is a satin Black. It looks a little gray in this picture, but it really is black."
__________________________________

Probable cause: Your camera's light meter was taught that is is always looking a standard gray card and to set the exposure accordingly. When it saw all that black, it said to itself, "Wow, there is way too much light here so I am going to increase the exposure a whole lot."

Keep those pictures coming. Looking forward to seeing your machine creating kerfs. Although you may not want to get it all sullied up with sawdust.

[Don Jarvie]

See if the SW store carries the hardener in the rattle can. It will protect the paint since this is the same stuff used for cars. My saw hasn't chipped in 3 years.

[Jim Andrew]

That hardener is great stuff for enamel, but I thought you had to mix it with the paint.

[jim tritz]

Have not posted in a while. Although this post may not seem like part of refurbishing a table saw, it is actually a very integral part of the process. I have been devoting countless hours and basically every free moment to rebuilding this saw. I am sure most of or a lot of my fellow woodworkers have a bride or significant other. Mine is awesome, and generally very supportive and understanding about my shop/project time. HOWEVER, she was getting a little worn out on the amount of time I was investing in this saw refurbish (not to mention the new tools I bought to aid in the refurbish, mainly the $300 Earlex Spray Gun). Soooo, my refurbish project got slightly delayed to build a “Pintrest”, “Pottery Barn”, or wherever she saw it/found it project,
Sometimes, building her that special thing she wants goes a long ways in justifying our tool expenditures and time spent not spending time with her,
So, here is my project for her (pic attached), that took me away from the refurbish. I built a pair of these to go over the night stands. Please comment if you can relate:)
On a side note, I did manage to complete the painting of the saw and am going to start putting it back together this week. I will post some pics later this week.

[Doug Ladendorf]

Can totally relate. My 66 restore took a good deal of my time since I tore it down to the last nut, and was delayed for several reasons. I have to say though it was like completing a master class and I'm the wiser and more experienced for it. I also feel like I now "own" the saw. Keeping the Ms. happy is a must and your project looks great. Did the mirror come with the design?

[Don Jarvie]

That hardener is great stuff for enamel, but I thought you had to mix it with the paint.

You could add it to the paint but cleaning the gun is a pain and you can't keep the paint if you have extra. The rattle can is very easy to use. Two cans was enough for the saw but I got a 3rd for the fence. Only drawback is once the can is opened you need to use. You do something on the bottom of the can and it mixes it.

[jim tritz]

Doug,

I actually bought a garden trellis and cut it down to size to fit the mirror and then built the frame. I built a pair of them to go over each nightstand in the bedroom. I can relate to knowing the saw a lot better. I too took this almost completely apart down to the last nut. The one thing I did not do, and may regret is I did not take the arbor apart or replace bearings. There was no play in it and it turns true and straight. This saw really is pretty easy to tear down, so I feel like if I need to do it down the road, it wont be that big of a deal. That being said (the tear down was easy) I don't have it back together yet:) I may change my tune!
I started putting it back together tonight. So far so good. Every thing moves and operates smoothly. I am going to put the blade on and measure the blade (with a Wikey) cranked all the way 45 to 90 degrees to make sure its all accurate before I put the top back on. Any advice or pitfalls I should look out for on the reassemble (anyone, please chime in)

[jim tritz]

This thing is actually starting to look like a table saw!

[michael case]

Hi Jim,

I just came across your thread. I had a 66 made in 2006 or so - very near the end of the line. I was very disappointed with mine and after seeing the guts of yours I realize that they were a much better better machine not so long before I purchased one. Though I did not know it at the time, when I bought mine, the American group knew they were on the way out and just did not give a hoot. I can't blame them. If I had bought one several years earlier I could have had a nice machine like yours. I was interested to really get a good look at the inside of an older version particularly the tilt mechanism which on yours is superior to the grossly misaligned and crudely cast thing I received. So you got a good machine there and I'm very impressed with your restore. It will give you decades of great service. Enjoy.

[Alden Miller]

While I prefer the PM Gold your saw is looking great! Doesn't look like it will be too long before it's up and running.

-Alden

[jim tritz]

Pretty much finished! all back together and up and running with the exception of the fence. I tracked all the time and $$ and will post some totals tomorrow. Thanks for all the help, advice and encouragement along the way!

[Doug Ladendorf]

Well done Jim, you have a sweet saw there! Do you have a splitter?

[Alden Miller]

The end result looks really nice!