Got a bid for the electrical update.....

[Corey Hallagan]

Finally got the first bid for my electrical update. I had 24 15 Amp Fused panel, plus the mains etc. Got a bid to put in a 125 amp service W/30 spacing, that will give me about 10 extra slots, all new from the mast on down, new meter, moving it about 2 foot in better acess area plus putting a GFCI on a 4 outlet run down the garage wall. Came in about $1,450. Got another coming tomorrow. Will be nice to be able to run my saw. I expect the other bid will be similar. I liked this guy. HE was a smaller residential master electrician that said he would do the work himself.

Corey

[Dale Thompson]

Corey,
The bid sounds a bit high to me unless it includes the installation of all the necessary receptacles and breakers. Why the charge for the meter? :confused: I doubt that your local power company will let you put in your own meter - that is their domain.

Unless it's code in your area, GFIs are expensive and a pain unless you have a potentially damp location. :( Ask your contractors about the grounding requirements for sub-panels. As I understand it, unlike the main panel, the ground and neutral should be electrically isolated from each other. :confused:

Lastly, I've got a 50 Amp sub-panel in my shop that handles everything including the lighting. It also covers a home theater system with a 60" TV and full sound surround, a refrigerator and a water softener in other parts of the lower level of my cardboard abode. :eek: :eek: :D

I'm not being critical. I just want you to get full value for your money! :)

Dale T.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Dale.....depends on your location....

I was responsible for the weatherhead, the service entry wire to the meter box, the meter box and the service panel, outlets ....everything for my new shop. The power company came out, ran the service wire to the weatherhead and installed the new meter in the meter box I installed. In short, they ran wire to the input to the weather head and installed the meter in the meter box I provided.

Get several bids Corey! I found bids varied dramatically between contractors!

[Dale Thompson]

Dale.....depends on your location....

Ken,
You said it much more succinctly than I did. :o Thanks!! :)

Dale T.

[Corey Hallagan]

Dale, that is just the way they do it around here I guess. That includes all installation of everything including breakers. Note this is not a subpanel, this is a whole new panel for the entire house. Does that make more sense? The shop is in the garage. I was told by others that it would be about 1300 - 1400 dollars to do the new panel and wire everything up. He came pretty close and told me 1375. and then another 75.00 to do the run down the wall with several outles and a GFI on them. Dale, why are GFIU'sa pain? I thought they were the thing to do. I wanted it as it can be pretty wet in there at times duing the winter even when you knock all the snow and crap off the car, it still gets pretty wet on the floor. I will see what contestant #2 says.

Corey

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Corey....GFIs expecially the "cheaper" models have had in the past a bad reputation for tripping without due cause or just failing and they can't be reset. They are required by most codes in "wet" areas and the local code here requires them in a shop. I bought the hightest quality I could find locally. I installed them as the first of 6 oultlets in each of the 4 120vac wall outlet circuits in my new shop. By placing them as the 1st outlet in each circuit they protect the rest of the outlets "downstream" or down circuit that is.

[Ron Jones near Indy]

The electric utility provided both the meter and meter base when I built my shop.

[Norman Hitt]

Dale, that is just the way they do it around here I guess. That includes all installation of everything including breakers. Note this is not a subpanel, this is a whole new panel for the entire house. Does that make more sense? The shop is in the garage. I was told by others that it would be about 1300 - 1400 dollars to do the new panel and wire everything up. He came pretty close and told me 1375. and then another 75.00 to do the run down the wall with several outles and a GFI on them. Dale, why are GFIU'sa pain? I thought they were the thing to do. I wanted it as it can be pretty wet in there at times duing the winter even when you knock all the snow and crap off the car, it still gets pretty wet on the floor. I will see what contestant #2 says.

Corey

Cory, I guess the "Code" Requirements vary somewhat from municipality to municipality, but like Ken said, our code here Requires GFI's in ALL shops, AND also Garages as well. One thing I might suggest would be that if you are upgrading your Main box from a fuse type at this time, and will have to also change out the Meter, It costs Very Little more to make the upgrade to 200 Amp Service instead of the 125 Amp you mentioned, (basically just the difference in the Ckt Brkr Box, and the installation labor is the same for either Amp Size).

By doing this now, since it will cover both the house and the shop, you probably will never have to worry about upgrading again, should you add other electrical devices in the house, OR add more, (OR higher hp shop tools) in the future. I would also suggest using a Square D Commercial 200 Amp Ckt Brkr Box, (I forget the model #, Q series I think). Home Depot has had them on sale here for the past year with 30 Breaker slots for $149.95, (and I'm pretty sure that includes the breakers too, or at least Most of them).

Good Luck, and hope this helps.

[Ray Bersch]

Cory,

As I read through the responses I too wonderd why you are not going right up to 200 amps, so I second Norms suggestion to do so. It is a very inexpensive up grade. Frankly, your price quote does not seem out of line to me. Lets see what the second guy says.

GFI's in the garage are part of the National Electrical Code and modern GFI's should not cause a problem - older ones were known to be a pain and I had one in this house when I bought it last year - so I changed it and all is fine.

Consider running one circuit dedicated for your tools, even if it is just for the saw - that way you can flip the breaker when you are finished - no accidential starts by others. I prefer a subpanel box with an external lever - easy to flip down for off and I can see that it is off - but I admit that to be overkill.
Good luck.
Ray

[Bill Lewis]

...It costs Very Little more to make the upgrade to 200 Amp Service instead of the 125 Amp you mentioned, (basically just the difference in the Ckt Brkr Box, and the installation labor is the same for either Amp Size).
Not to be one to "me too" a post, but what Norman has written here covered everything I was going to write. Just wanted to re-emphasize that going from a 125 to 200 panel might cost $15 difference in parts.

BTW, Dale, isn't "germane" what John Hart was looking to get translated a couple of days ago!? Something about a 1700's Festool operators manual.:p

[Tom Pritchard]

Hi Corey! I'm really glad to see you making so many good improvements to your shop! Trust your instincts, you said that you liked the first guy that came out. There's a lot to be said for that. Pricing varies a lot from one area of the country to another, so it's difficult to say what an "average" price should be. The main thing is that it's done correctly and your happy with it.

Been a good year so far for the Hallagan Shop!! Nice going!

[Gary Max]

When I wired my shop I had to pay a guy $35.00 just to come out and look at the job I had done. I called and talked to him before I started and he told me I had to have one GFI outlet in the shop. So I installed one next to the door---wetest place I could think of. The local codes change from one side of town to the next.

[CPeter James]

My $.02 worth. Do go with the 200 amp entrance. The larger wire will also cut down on the voltage drops when you fire up the saw other big tools. Also using the GFI in the first outlet and then daisy chaining others provides the needed protection at much less cost than putting in GFI breakers. Even with a 200 amp entrance, to the house, I still dim the lights when the 5 hp air compressor cranks up.

CPeter

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Corey......when I wired my new shop I installed 200 amp service into the shop. It's on it's own meter. As the guys said, the parts aren't really that much more expensive.

[Rob Russell]

I agree with the 200 map service upgrade. You're already killing power to the house and replacing everything else, so a 200 amp service upgrade shouldn't involve any more work on the sparky's part. The meter pan needs to be larger, but the sparky may have already figured that in. You'll need a main service panel rated for 200 amps instead of 125. Personally, I'd install a 40 space panel. The cost difference between a 30 and 40 space panel is peanuts and could save you time, work and $ later. Even if the power company says their wiring is only good for 125 or 150 amps, I'd put in 200 amp capable equipment for your stuff because you're already replacing it.

Now - if 3-phase were available, that'd be a whole 'nutter story :).

Rob

[Jim O'Dell]

Cory, does the electrician have to provide all the equipment? Someone else here mentioned to me to look at e-bay for electrical supplies. I got a Square D 200 amp main lug panel for 50.00 + shipping. The 200 amp breaker was 60.00. Both were new in the box, delivered in perfect shape. The same main lug panel at HD was 150.00!!, and I think I saw the main breaker at about 100.00 there. This is the 30/40 box, but after I bought it I did see some of the 40 slot units for a little more. Good luck! Jim.

[Corey Hallagan]

Well, contractor number 2 showed up on time as well. To answer some of the questions, yes, here you are responsible for everything. They have specific meters to be used an approved by the energy company that are required.. and i get to pay for it! The city will sign off on that the proper meters etc. are used. The entire job is done with the contractor and the final city inspector. The energy company isn't involved unless it is something that goes back to the pole.
First on the 200 AMP, I hear what everyone is saying but honestly, I don't know what the heck I would do that would ever require that kind of power. Keep in mind, my shop is a 1 car garage and only the space in front of the car. I have no room for DC or any other equipment like that. If anything, I hope to add a jointer, but no room for a planer, lathes etc. I am pretty much a Table Saw, Drill Press, Router Table, Chop Saw, Scroll Saw... shop and it will probably stay that way. I would be singing along just fine if I had a 20 amp to run that saw!! LOL. The house is small and we have no plans to do anything but add a dishwasher. The electrican suggested 150 AMP.. and is going to mail me a 125, 150 and 200 AMP quote so we will see. It will be nice to kiss the fuses good by and fire up my new saw. Thanks all for the info and suggestions!

Oh, Jim, on the equipment itself. Yeah my brother in law mentioned that as well. These guys pretty much balked at that...didn't say I can't buy it but I don't really want to wait and do the ebay thing. No doubt they are getting it from a wholesaler and charging me HD prices. That's ok I guess, I don't want the hassle of getting all the stuff, I got my hands full on my remodel stuff as it is :) I don't mind them making a little money on me, just as long as I am not setting up the retirement plan :)
Corey

[Richard Wolf]

Corey, good luck with the electrial work, should be fun firing up the saw.
I would just like to add my $.02 about homeowners suppling material. Contractors plan on making $XX.00 for a days work. What they add on for materials is only a way to camoflage the labor rate. When you supply the materials they are not going to work for less that day, they just add to the labor. The bottom line on the bill may be less but not usually when you add in what you have spent on parts.
The real problem comes if you buy the wrong part or the part you got is broken. Is the contractor going to stand around while you run to HD to get a replacement, I wouldn't. It may end up a return call from the contractor at additional charges. How about when the part you supplied craps out in a month, do you think the contractor should come back and replace it for nothing? Moral of the story: when you go to the diner for breakfast, you don't bring your own eggs, do you?

Richard

[Todd Davidson]

Cori ~ As part of my basement/shop remodel I upgraded my electrical service from a 100 amp fuse to 200 amp breaker (so I could run several 220s and have sufficient 110s in the shop as well as have room to spare as I would someday like to add an addition) I, too, had to have a new meter as well. Also had the electrician help me straighten out some of the existing wiring. Cost me about $1500 (which included the electrical inspection and for the power company to come out and "set" the meter).

[Dale Thompson]

Corey....GFIs expecially the "cheaper" models have had in the past a bad reputation for tripping without due cause or just failing and they can't be reset.

Ken,
There you go AGAIN. Saying my "stuff" way more succinctly than I do. :) Why don't you just write all of my posts? I'm sure that everyone would be more than happy with someone who can "get to the point" without all of the babble! :p You forgot to say that stray lightning also knocks out GFIs. That's not bad unless you have two on the same circuit like I did. Without checking the outside receptacle, I once spent about $50 to replace the GFI in the panel. The new one STILL didn't work! :confused: I stepped outside the door and saw the GFI on the outside receptacle!! :mad: I won't even tell you what happened next and my box store does not accept returns on "installed" electrical equipment.

Corey,
I'm with the 200 amp upgrade gang. You never know when you will want to put a light bulb in in the old outhouse. :D Also, it looks like you have two very fair quotes on your project. I was just checking. A couple of months ago I got a quote from an "electrician" for $1200. To oversimplify the project, it was basically to pound two "grounding rods" in the ground, screw a ground wire into a panel and rearrange three wires on the SAME three terminals! :eek: Obviously, he didn't know that I was flying kites in thunderstorms before Ben Franklin was even BORN! ;) If my shop cat was still alive, she would have ripped him a new toolbelt!! :eek: :eek:

Good luck with your project! May the "electrons" be with you. :)

Dale T.

[Corey Hallagan]

Dale, you crack me up. I suspect that Richard is right. The first guy just wrote up up the ticket as to put down what the job consisted of and a lump price. Didn't break it down. The other guy seems to be doing an itemized and will mail it to me. The first guy explained the process and what does what better and will fix a couple violations that are there from the previous home owner. I had to point that out to #2. I guess the city inspector missed that 18 years ago!!! Thinking about getting #3 but honestly if 2 comes in around 1, #3 will most likely be same unless he is real hungry :-) WOW, that was a mouthfull! Thanks again guys!

Corey