butt joints

[Maurice Arney]

What would be the best way to butt join some short lengths of pine I have laying around? I have this idea to use up my short lengths of scrap to make small tops for painted items like end tables. I was thinking of using a biscuit joiner but am wondering if the grain in the biscuits might be less than ideal for gluing end-to-end. Should I use dowels instead? The butt joints will get some reinforcement from long grain on adjacent boards (picture staggered joints like a hardwood floor) so I’m thinking that the biscuits will suffice. What do you think?

[Jim Rimmer]

Scarf joint

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRZeWMvWwj-cDdYNEWACrV1ZWnRpAeJIzti_GUJSIiTm_Jj7MHZW_xp1w (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/url?q=http://www.basiccarpentrytechniques.com/Woodwork%2520Joints/Woodwork%2520Joints%25207.html&sa=U&ei=xnYoU-OyJoL5rQHnsIHQBg&ved=0CCoQ9QEwAQ&sig2=Jhwa5yPPYABrA7xeLqv9TA&usg=AFQjCNE8o0iUY9ZPa2Of3N06s1PUXILk3Q)

[steven taggart]

I usually just glue pine for small tops with a standard butt joint. A good, square surface that is flush is all it takes. The glue bond will be stronger than the grain of the wood. Try gluing two boards together, and let it dry. Then try to break the joint. Odds are it will be the wood that breaks first.

[Loren Woirhaye]

Dowels will glue up straighter. With biscuits you'll have to fuss with clamping the parts in alignment while the glue dries. With dowels the clamping shouldn't be needed if you're crosscutting and drilling are correct. Splines of 1/4" plywood will work too if open slots showing the spline end are acceptable. The slots and splines for the whole job can be cut quickly on the table saw. An advantage is you can make the splines go deeper than biscuits and this will help keep the parts in alignment as the glue dries.

[Peter Kelly]

What would be the best way to butt join some short lengths of pine I have laying around? I have this idea to use up my short lengths of scrap to make small tops for painted items like end tables. I was thinking of using a biscuit joiner but am wondering if the grain in the biscuits might be less than ideal for gluing end-to-end. Should I use dowels instead? The butt joints will get some reinforcement from long grain on adjacent boards (picture staggered joints like a hardwood floor) so I’m thinking that the biscuits will suffice. What do you think?If you're glueing up everything similar to a butcher block top, you really don't need any joinery on the butt ends. Finger joints help with alignment but you'll see them at the outer edges of the panel.

[Maurice Arney]

Good point with the alignment! I didn't think of the scarf joint mentioned by Jim. That would also be easy and strong!

[Peter Quinn]

I like half laps to grow boards on length. Big glue surface area. Second favorite is a spline, so the double sided half of. Bridle joint twice for quick set up and a spline key milled to match. You could do that as a dovetail but the over the top wood police might come for you!

[Maurice Arney]

I like the half lap... Strong and easy. The dowels are good too and you don't lose any length. I'll try them both. Thanks!

[Kent A Bathurst]

Scarf joint

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRZeWMvWwj-cDdYNEWACrV1ZWnRpAeJIzti_GUJSIiTm_Jj7MHZW_xp1w (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/url?q=http://www.basiccarpentrytechniques.com/Woodwork%2520Joints/Woodwork%2520Joints%25207.html&sa=U&ei=xnYoU-OyJoL5rQHnsIHQBg&ved=0CCoQ9QEwAQ&sig2=Jhwa5yPPYABrA7xeLqv9TA&usg=AFQjCNE8o0iUY9ZPa2Of3N06s1PUXILk3Q)



We have a winner!!!

Plenty of glue surface. Dowels would do fine, but too much screwing-around-time, to my way of thinking, for small pieces to be painted. Plus - the dowels won't do better than this with a proper setup, in terms of flush and aligned.

One setup on a TS dado set, and you can do any number of these in[virtually] no time.

[Peter Quinn]

We have a winner!!!

Plenty of glue surface. Dowels would do fine, but too much screwing-around-time, to my way of thinking, for small pieces to be painted. Plus - the dowels won't do better than this with a proper setup, in terms of flush and aligned.

One setup on a TS dado set, and you can do any number of these in[virtually] no time.

Take a close look at that scarfed half lap....if you can do that in a single setup with a dado you are a smarter man than I. I see two distinct cuts there, both with a straight blade. Please explain .

[Jim Rimmer]

Take a close look at that scarfed half lap....if you can do that in a single setup with a dado you are a smarter man than I. I see two distinct cuts there, both with a straight blade. Please explain .

You can set the depth of the dado and make multiple passes at right angles to the grain. You are probably thinking of a vertical cut and a cross cut and taking all the waste out at once. That would work, too. Kind of like making a tenon.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Kind of like making a tenon.

Nope - exactly like making a tenon. I've made jillions using this method.

Peter - I an't smarter than anyone. Trust me - I is the expert on not being smarter than anyone here. Ask around - I've got a lot of people backing me up on that bit. :D

1. Muddle through the height setup by running two pieces through, gradually lifting the blades until you hit the right depth-of-cut, until they match. But - FYI - I also take a swipe across the faces with something to smooth them out for the glue up [my current all-time favorite is my L-N face float. One swipe, all smoothed out, and good to go]. So, my final blade depth is based on that "swipe".
2. Pick any-ol-dang dimension you want for the width of lap/half joint. Mebbe a couple inches?
3. Set the rip fence there
4. Miter gauge to push the parts through.
5. Start away from the fence, and "nibble" your way in.

People here will talk about an offset block to avoid tenon-to-fence contact. I will not argue that point. How-some-ever, in my world that is not a safety issue when I am pushing through the cut with the part secured from behind by a good miter gauge.

I coulda made a few dozen lap joints in the time it took me to work through my post.

Tee it up - however you want to do it will work out just fine.

[Ole Anderson]

In my shop, short pieces of pine rhymes with kindling.;)

[Chris Padilla]

It depends on what your application for the jointed pieces will be. For a top, I would just butt joint because the strength will come from the eventual long-grain to long-grain glue up. The simple/quick end-grain to end-grain butt joint will be good enough until the top glue up comes into play.

Otherwise, there are a ton of way to connect this joint:

Domino
Loose Tenon
Integral Tenon
Biscuit
Spline
Half-Lap
Bridle
Pocket Screws
Scarf

[Jim Rimmer]

Nope - exactly like making a tenon. I've made jillions using this method.

Peter - I an't smarter than anyone. Trust me - I is the expert on not being smarter than anyone here. Ask around - I've got a lot of people backing me up on that bit. :D

1. Muddle through the height setup by running two pieces through, gradually lifting the blades until you hit the right depth-of-cut, until they match. But - FYI - I also take a swipe across the faces with something to smooth them out for the glue up [my current all-time favorite is my L-N face float. One swipe, all smoothed out, and good to go]. So, my final blade depth is based on that "swipe".
2. Pick any-ol-dang dimension you want for the width of lap/half joint. Mebbe a couple inches?
3. Set the rip fence there
4. Miter gauge to push the parts through.
5. Start away from the fence, and "nibble" your way in.

People here will talk about an offset block to avoid tenon-to-fence contact. I will not argue that point. How-some-ever, in my world that is not a safety issue when I am pushing through the cut with the part secured from behind by a good miter gauge.

I coulda made a few dozen lap joints in the time it took me to work through my post.

Tee it up - however you want to do it will work out just fine.


Well, yeah, it is like making a tenon only it is offset. And your description of how you do it is a much more eloquent description of what I meant. :D

[Kent A Bathurst]

"....a much more eloquent description

"Eloquent" is a word that is almost never used in reference to me. Be cautious - you will ruin your street cred, Jim.


:p :p

[John Bomment]

In defense of Peter, Jim's illustration is showing a dovetailed scarf joint.

[John TenEyck]

If you're glueing up everything similar to a butcher block top, you really don't need any joinery on the butt ends. Finger joints help with alignment but you'll see them at the outer edges of the panel.

Exactly right. I just made this cutting board with a combination of some butt jointed short pieces and a few full length pieces. With the edges all glued I don't think the butt joints are in any danger of opening. I can't argue that half laps would be stronger, as a separate entity, but after it's all glued up in a composite, I doubt the difference is much. And if the idea is to use short pieces, half lap joints would make those pieces even shorter.

285180

John

[Kent A Bathurst]

Exactly right. I just made this cutting board with a combination of some butt jointed short pieces and a few full length pieces. With the edges all glued I don't think the butt joints are in any danger of opening. I can't argue that half laps would be stronger, as a separate entity, but after it's all glued up in a composite, I doubt the difference is much. And if the idea is to use short pieces, half lap joints would make those pieces even shorter.

285180

John

Perfect application for butt-jointed shorts.

[Jim Rimmer]

In defense of Peter, Jim's illustration is showing a dovetailed scarf joint.

I just grabbed that of the 'net. Is it a dovetail or an optical illusion?

Edit: Just looked at it again and I believe your right. I didn't intend to post a dovetailed scarf joint. That would be too much work for this type of project. :D