Stickley 913 Dresser: Attaching the top?

[Jim C Martin]

Hello All:
I am in the process of building a Stickley 913 replica dresser like the ones show in these links:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?18411-Gustav-Stickley-Harvey-Ellis-913-Dresser

I am nearly ready to assemble the case but I find myself obsessing over how to attach the top. My version uses solid sides and a solid top so movement should be similar. The reason the top attachment is tricky is because there is no upper web frame in this design. I am currently considering three options.
1. Use plain old steel corner brackets like these http://www.marlinwire.com/sheet-metal-fabrication/steel-brackets/angle-brackets.htm. I would inset them into the side and top so they don’t protrude. This would allow the use of lots of screws. Also, should anything happen between now and say 200 years from now, the top could be reattached in a similar way. I realize this is not very elegant but it could be very strong and easy to repair.
2. Use pocket screws as shown in this image by TreeFrogFurniture: http://treefrogfurniture.blogspot.com/2008/04/stickley-913-harvey-ellis-dresser-part_20.html
This makes me nervous in terms of really long term durability. I’m imagining some future boyfriend of a granddaughter yanking the top off the screws when trying to load it into the trunk of a car. If something catastrophic like that happened it would be very difficult to repair and I might not be around to do it.
3. Use loose tenon joinery through the top and into the top of the legs. This would allow me to use a through tenon like those on my Morris chairs. That detail would not be in agreement with the original Harvey Ellis design of course but it would be pretty robust, especially if I pinned it with a dowel. I would finish it off as a wedged tenon and cut it flush so that it would not be too much of a departure from the original Ellis design.

So, those of you with lots of dresser building experience, please give me your thoughts on these options or others I haven’t considered. I’d be particularly interested to hear from Doug Cowan about how he attached his top.

Thanks in advance,
Jim

[Jamie Buxton]

So you have solid-lumber sides and top, the sides' grain runs up-down, and the top's grain runs side-to-side? I'd use dowels -- a lot of dowels. They would not penetrate the top surface of the top.

I use a shop-made jig that looks like the common jig used to make columns of holes for shelf pins. Mine is set up for 3/8" diameter pegs. I can place the pegs on 1" centers, but often skip holes to make 2" or 3" centers. I bore the holes with a plunge router, so they're really at 90 degrees. A single dowel isn't the greatest joint, but one every coupla inches is really sews the parts together.

[Jim C Martin]

So you have solid-lumber sides and top, the sides' grain runs up-down, and the top's grain runs side-to-side?
Yes, you've got it.


I'd use dowels -- a lot of dowels. They would not penetrate the top surface of the top.
I use a shop-made jig that looks like the common jig used to make columns of holes for shelf pins. Mine is set up for 3/8" diameter pegs. I can place the pegs on 1" centers, but often skip holes to make 2" or 3" centers. I bore the holes with a plunge router, so they're really at 90 degrees. A single dowel isn't the greatest joint, but one every coupla inches is really sews the parts together.

I like it! You'd have to have a lot of confidence in that jig and in how you place it for sure but I can see it.
Thanks,
Jim

[Jamie Buxton]

My jig is just a piece of plywood with holes in it. Visualize the casework with the top pulled up in the air a bit. In that view, slide the jig in between a side and the top. Now move the top out of the way, and bore the holes down into the side. Then put the top back, move the side out of the way, and bore the holes up into the underside of the top. The holes in the sides will line up with the holes in the top, even if the holes aren't evenly spaced. (Of course, what you're going to do is flip the top over so you can bore into its underside, but if you keep the jig in position as you flip it over, you get the right result.) That is, the jig doesn't have to be perfectly accurate.

[Mike Henderson]

I'd probably use figure 8 fasteners like these (http://www.rockler.com/desk-top-fasteners). They're easy to use and if you use a sufficient number (more than four) it will hold the top on very well.

You use a Forstner bit to drill a small mortise in the side end grain, just as deep as the fastener is thick. Install the fasteners in the sides with screws. Place the top in position and use screws through the other hole in the figure 8 fastener to attach the top to the sides. No alignment problems as you might encounter with dowels or small loose tenons.

When you drill the mortise, you offset it so the figure 8 fastener does not show from the outside. You can probably find detailed instructions on the web. I use them often to attach the back of a chest of drawers, etc.

Mike

[You can see how I used them on this page (http://www.mikes-woodwork.com/Box_For_Trays2.htm), under the entry of 7/29/2013.]

[Jim C Martin]

Thanks Mike. I had thought about figure 8's but was worried about the strength when screwing into end grain. Maybe a cross dowel would give strength for the screw threads? I could drill from the inside of the panel and not go all the way through.
Cheers,
Jim

[Mike Henderson]

Thanks Mike. I had thought about figure 8's but was worried about the strength when screwing into end grain. Maybe a cross dowel would give strength for the screw threads? I could drill from the inside of the panel and not go all the way through.
Cheers,
Jim
Well, remember that those sides are very, very long. You can put a very long screw into the sides if you're worried abut the screw coming out. Personally, I wouldn't go more than 1.5", and that's only if you're worried. An inch would probably hold fine if you put a figure 8 fastener every few inches.

I had a Stickley library desk that used those to attach the desktop and I think they only had maybe six (three on each side). My niece has the desk now so I can't check it. By the way, the fasteners stuck out from the sides but since the desktop was low, you didn't see them.

Mike

[Peter Keen]

Not quite sure whether there is room for this - on some of the designs you include, there seems to be front face frame on the uprights. I have used these Lee Valley fasteners (http://www.leevalley.com/en/hardware/page.aspx?p=40146&cat=3,41306,41309) on a number of dressers - usually with a fixed screw at the front, and two of these on the side, and two-four on the back. They work well and are easy to install - and you are always screwing into long grain, not end grain.

[Rod Sheridan]

When I make A&C furniture like that I dado the gables into the top.................Rod.

[Bob Lang]

Figure-eight fasteners were typically used by Stickley, and you can use a bunch of them. The lack of an obvious front rail is part of the look, but it is a break from traditional construction. An alternative to the figure-eights is to run cleats inside the sides and attach the top with screws. You could also make the sides of the top drawers a bit shorter than the fronts and put in a rail behind the top drawers.

Bob Lang

[Jim C Martin]

Figure-eight fasteners were typically used by Stickley, and you can use a bunch of them.

Thanks Bob! I should have mentioned that I am using your drawings. I really appreciate you letting me know that this was Stickley's solution. Case closed, that's what I'll use. I'm thinking that I will do one in the top of each leg, three along the sides and three in back. All with dowels drilled into the leg or side so I can screw into cross grain. That should pretty much do it. I'll rout a relief into the top so that the figure 8s don't protrude into the drawer space.
Cheers,
Jim

[Mike Henderson]

Remember that when you pull a loaded drawer out, it slides along the top cleat - or the top of your chest in your case. You want to make sure that the surface the sides slide on is smooth so that when someone pushes the drawer back in it doesn't catch on one of the figure 8's. I guess that's one reason Stickley put the figure 8s on the outside of the desk I had.

You'd almost have to put a cleat over the figure 8s that stick into the case so that the drawer has a smooth surface to slide on.

Oh, one more thing I learned about chests of drawers. This may not be Stickley original but it's useful. Some people put dust shields between the drawers. If you do that, make the bottom of the blade smooth, not the top. That way, when you overload a drawer with clothes, the drawer will pull out smoothly. If you don't put in dust shields, or put them on the top of the blades, the clothes can get jammed when you open an overloaded drawer.

The people who use the chest will appreciate it.

Mike

[Jim C Martin]

Hi Mike:
I know its been a while since you posted this but I have been thinking about it and wanted to thank you.
The way I'm thinking of attaching the figure 8s would be with a relief in the top so that they are inset and don't interfere with the drawer. Of course the underside of the top with no longer be continuous so that may be an issue. I might use a drawer runner along the side to keep things smooth.
Also, I really appreciate your input on the dust shields. In my design, I will use a frame and panel approach. I could make the panel thicker on the bottom side or I could bevel the frame members to ease things along.
Cheers,
Jim



Remember that when you pull a loaded drawer out, it slides along the top cleat - or the top of your chest in your case. You want to make sure that the surface the sides slide on is smooth so that when someone pushes the drawer back in it doesn't catch on one of the figure 8's. I guess that's one reason Stickley put the figure 8s on the outside of the desk I had.

You'd almost have to put a cleat over the figure 8s that stick into the case so that the drawer has a smooth surface to slide on.

Oh, one more thing I learned about chests of drawers. This may not be Stickley original but it's useful. Some people put dust shields between the drawers. If you do that, make the bottom of the blade smooth, not the top. That way, when you overload a drawer with clothes, the drawer will pull out smoothly. If you don't put in dust shields, or put them on the top of the blades, the clothes can get jammed when you open an overloaded drawer.

The people who use the chest will appreciate it.

Mike