Worm Drive Saw Suggestions

[Rich Riddle]

I am looking for a worm drive saw. What brand of saw do you suggest? I own a Skilsaw model 67, but it's too small for the job in question. It looks like the following photograph, quite small:

284993

Who makes the best big brother to this guy?

[Paul McGaha]

Here's a 7 1/4" Saw:

http://www.toolup.com/skil_shd77_7-14-in-worm-drive-skilsaw.aspx?utm_source=scPricegrabber&utm_medium=cse&utm_campaign=sc&scpid=36&scid=scsho1069881

I have this saw in a 6 1/2" size, Skil #367.

PHM

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Ahh, a subject near and dear. I have and regularly use two Skil 77's, and a Bosch clone. The Bosch is the prefered one for most because it's a little lighter. Bosch, and others I think, make an all magnesium saw that is lighter yet. You pay more for less weight. I personally don't think that is a good deal, there is not much wrong with the original Skil, weight included. Bosch bought Skil, and you can see it in their saws.

Of my saws, the Bosch get used the most because it has a rafter hook. It has a mag plate though, which flexes occasionally. Just readjust if its wobbling a bit. Dropping it causes this.

I'd recommend the Bosch again, or a 77, but honestly the Dewalt or Makita are fine too. Worm drive is just better, no matter who makes it.

Nice little 67 btw. You probably know that there is something of a cult following of the 67.

[John Schweikert]

I have a Ridgid 7-1/4" worm drive for 2-3 years now and no complaints, works great. Very heavy at 17 lbs, with a good Freud blade, does the job.

I think you'll get a different answer from every person. I suggest reading the reviews on Amazon and other sites and digest them for your needs. Makita, Bosch, Skil, Ridgid, Dewalt all make good worm drive saws. Pretty hard to distinguish them other than brand loyalty.

[Bradley Gray]

I have a 7 1/4 77 and an 8 1/4 also. I'm pretty sure they still make a 10".

[Mark Bolton]

Can I ask why you feel you need a worm? I have worms and direct/conventional's and I honestly cant imagine why someone would "need" a worm drive. For years the notion has been that they have more power/torque however I have never once found this to be the case. What I have found to be the case is that #1 they are great for where they became popular which is California framers, who liked them for the long reach because when stick framing became the convention you cut studs picked up off the ground on the toe of your boot. The extended distance between the handle and the blade center means you dont have to bend/stoop as much. #2 When cutting at full depth your hand is way behind the blade which gives better control (timbers). You have more leverage and an extended fulcrum which tends to make cutting easier. This is no longer the case however as so many gang cut sticks in a pile, work off chop saws, horses, and so on, and few work with timbers any longer.

That said, where they suck is at shallow depths (cutting sheet goods) when the blade is raised and now your hand control is at a high angle and distance to the work (dangerous as heck), and the weight. The weight is surely nice in some applications but I have simply never found a worm to be an all around saw. They are a specific purpose tool, and one that is becoming less and less needed with each year that passes.

I cant express enough the danger of using a worm for things its bad for (cutting window openings on a wall for instance). Shallow cut, in positions you have reduced control, and so on. A blade that far away from your hand is completely out of control when you get in a bind. For me personally, there is not a pinch/bad situation in the world where I cant overpower any 7 1/4" saw (but Im a pretty big guy and work with them almost daily) but a worm will twist your wrist off in a flash even if you see it coming and where that blade goes is the question. You cant stop them. Not because of power, but because the torque is so far from the handle.

Id go for a 77mag all day long if I had to have one.

[wayne booker]

I picked up a Skill 77Mag at a garage sale last summer for $20, all it needed was a good cleaning and it looks and works like new. Didn't mean to gloat but I'm still excited as I've wanted one for the longest time.

The big advantages for me is the wormdrive produces way more torque at the blade due to gearing and the blade is more likely to power through when the blade is binding in the kerf instead of stopping the blade like my direct drive SkillSaw does. Also I've noticed that it doesn't snag the lower blade shroud as it goes across the starting edge like my skill direct drive does. The extra weight helps it track straight. It is heavier to carry and handle but it outperforms a direct drive saw in every other way.

wayne

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Can I ask why you feel you need a worm? I have worms and direct/conventional's and I honestly cant imagine why someone would "need" a worm drive. For years the notion has been that they have more power/torque however I have never once found this to be the case. What I have found to be the case is that #1 they are great for where they became popular which is California framers, who liked them for the long reach because when stick framing became the convention you cut studs picked up off the ground on the toe of your boot. The extended distance between the handle and the blade center means you dont have to bend/stoop as much. #2 When cutting at full depth your hand is way behind the blade which gives better control (timbers). You have more leverage and an extended fulcrum which tends to make cutting easier. This is no longer the case however as so many gang cut sticks in a pile, work off chop saws, horses, and so on, and few work with timbers any longer.

That said, where they suck is at shallow depths (cutting sheet goods) when the blade is raised and now your hand control is at a high angle and distance to the work (dangerous as heck), and the weight. The weight is surely nice in some applications but I have simply never found a worm to be an all around saw. They are a specific purpose tool, and one that is becoming less and less needed with each year that passes.

I cant express enough the danger of using a worm for things its bad for (cutting window openings on a wall for instance). Shallow cut, in positions you have reduced control, and so on. A blade that far away from your hand is completely out of control when you get in a bind. For me personally, there is not a pinch/bad situation in the world where I cant overpower any 7 1/4" saw (but Im a pretty big guy and work with them almost daily) but a worm will twist your wrist off in a flash even if you see it coming and where that blade goes is the question. You cant stop them. Not because of power, but because the torque is so far from the handle.

Id go for a 77mag all day long if I had to have one.

Mark, this debate has raged for years. I've never seen a worm drive come close to twisting arms, if the blade binds it could push you back, but it won't twist. The weight resists that too though, so you end up with a very powerful, capable saw. A 7 1/4 blade limits the sidewinder and the worm to the same depths, and the weight is a benefit. The handle height in shallow cuts doesn't seem like an issue to me I guess at least it hasn't been in the years I've been using them. Add the weight, the power, and the blade being on the correct side of the saw, and it's a winner. Yes I've used a sidewinder enough to form a solid opinion.

[Bill McNiel]

I started out as a Calif framer and agree with everything Mark said about the 77. I still have a couple that are 20 to 40 years old. I also have a 10" beam saw and an old (still great) rockwell 4 1/2" panel saw. Mag sounds nice but two saws would have to break down and die before I get one, also don't do as much framing these days.

[sebastian phillips]

Definitely get the Mag 77. Keep the oil level up, flush it periodically w/ kero, and it will last your lifetime.
I liked to have a sidewinder and a worm on framing jobs (but prefer a worm drive), sometimes you need to bevel one way or the other.
Regarding a worm drive being dangerous cutting sheathing or window openings-not if you use it correctly and understand the tool. I prefer a worm drive for any framing task I could think of. The blade is on the correct side for ply cuts, and the weight and handle position make cutting ply on the flat a breeze, plus the torque of the worm drive lets you rip three sheets of 3/4 at a go.
Plus, if you learn the cutting off your boot technique that Mark mentions, it is much easier to cut, say, a 20' 2x12' where it lays, rather than wrestle the long board onto horses. Simple and accurate.

[Michael Mahan]

I have a 20 year old Skill 77 saw , I love wouldn't have any other type of circular saw than a wormdrive
that is Except my Festool TS55 REQ my Track Saw but that is completely a different bird

[Mark Bolton]

Mark, this debate has raged for years. I've never seen a worm drive come close to twisting arms, if the blade binds it could push you back, but it won't twist. The weight resists that too though, so you end up with a very powerful, capable saw. A 7 1/4 blade limits the sidewinder and the worm to the same depths, and the weight is a benefit. The handle height in shallow cuts doesn't seem like an issue to me I guess at least it hasn't been in the years I've been using them. Add the weight, the power, and the blade being on the correct side of the saw, and it's a winner. Yes I've used a sidewinder enough to form a solid opinion.

Steve,
If youve never seen a guy ripping with a worm and getting in a pinched situation and the saw climbs out of the work faster than he can catch I dont know what to tell you. Its a twisting mess. Ive seen it more times than I can count. Or better yet the guy who tries to cut a window opening and either unknowingly or testosteronally opts to cut the verticals single handed (like we do every day with conventionals). It can be ugly.

I dont mean to sound snotty but the reason the average joe wants a worm is because of thr pee pee factor and thats a scenario that puts a trade guy making a stupid move to shame..

Its a free country but thats just been my experience. I can frame an entire home with one saw, but I have both.

[Rich Riddle]

Read all your comments and found this on Craigslist from an old carpenter who retired. Have purchased a couple saws from him including a Porter Cable trim saw. Anyway the price was fair so purchased this used with all the accessories and bag:

285017

It looks to be in good shape and runs well. Use for it? The wife needs a deck removed. A project requires a new/used tool. It will prove handy in that situation. The deck is two layers thick with boards.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Steve,
If youve never seen a guy ripping with a worm and getting in a pinched situation and the saw climbs out of the work faster than he can catch I dont know what to tell you. Its a twisting mess. Ive seen it more times than I can count. Or better yet the guy who tries to cut a window opening and either unknowingly or testosteronally opts to cut the verticals single handed (like we do every day with conventionals). It can be ugly.

I dont mean to sound snotty but the reason the average joe wants a worm is because of thr pee pee factor and thats a scenario that puts a trade guy making a stupid move to shame..

Its a free country but thats just been my experience. I can frame an entire home with one saw, but I have both.

I'm not going to be offended by it Mark, but I do disagree, and that's fine. I've seen guys do stupid things with sidwinders to, but usually it's not the saw that's causing a problem, it's the meathead running it. It's interesting how this debate is geographically biased. To my knowledge it's unique.

I'd also say that the crew here on the creek are not the average clueless entry level position class of folks, and a big saw requires a degree of common sense that I suspect is a heck of a lot easier to find here then on the average building site.

I have a relative who cut three fingers off with a circular saw, and never more than one at a time. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to use circular saws, or sharp pencils for that matter. All tools have limitations, some people just don't understand that.

[Michael Mahan]

that handle on the top of a wormdrive is there for a reason :rolleyes:

it would very hard to cut yer fingers when both hands are on the top & rear of the saw ;)

[steve swartz]

I still have the same 3 Skil saws that I bought over 30 years ago. I have a 6 1/2" worm drive, an 8 1/4" worm drive and a 5 1/2" trim saw. I bought the 6 1/2" first and then the 8 1/4" because I thought I could do more with a larger saw. I bet I haven't used the 8 1/4" 5 times in the last 15 years. My old 8 1/4" weighs at least 20 pounds. It does the job, but it beats on me and when I sell it, I won't miss it at all.
I barely use the 6 1/2" either. I use the 5 1/2" for almost everything, from cutting studs to cutting sheet goods. The only changes I made to the saws was to put a rafter hook on the 6 1/2" for when I was framing and I replaced the 6' cord on the 5 1/2" to 25' using a 12/3 extension cord. I bought worm drives because at that time most sidewinders had the blade on the right side and I couldn't see the cut. The 5 1/2 has the blade on the left, it is very light, and it will cut 2x4s all day long.
If I was to do it all over again, I would get a 7 1/4" Skil saw and call it a day.

[Mark Bolton]

the crew here on the creek are not the average clueless entry level position class of folks, and a big saw requires a degree of common sense that I suspect is a heck of a lot easier to find here then on the average building site.


For sure there is no bias one way or the other. A measure of caution vs. simply not working with a given tool daily as compared to some callous construction worker taking risks or getting in a bad spot doing repetitive mundane tasks. Maybe they cancel each other out. I'm not sure.

As I said, I'm not against them, but there isn't a "need" for them anymore. Hence my pee pee factor statement ;-). Which by the way applies to everyone, whether in the trade or not. All are susceptible to the pee pee factor. ;-)

[Charles Wiggins]

Can I ask why you feel you need a worm? I have worms and direct/conventional's and I honestly cant imagine why someone would "need" a worm drive. For years the notion has been that they have more power/torque however I have never once found this to be the case. What I have found to be the case is that #1 they are great for where they became popular which is California framers, who liked them for the long reach because when stick framing became the convention you cut studs picked up off the ground on the toe of your boot. The extended distance between the handle and the blade center means you dont have to bend/stoop as much. #2 When cutting at full depth your hand is way behind the blade which gives better control (timbers). You have more leverage and an extended fulcrum which tends to make cutting easier. This is no longer the case however as so many gang cut sticks in a pile, work off chop saws, horses, and so on, and few work with timbers any longer.

That said, where they suck is at shallow depths (cutting sheet goods) when the blade is raised and now your hand control is at a high angle and distance to the work (dangerous as heck), and the weight. The weight is surely nice in some applications but I have simply never found a worm to be an all around saw. They are a specific purpose tool, and one that is becoming less and less needed with each year that passes.

I cant express enough the danger of using a worm for things its bad for (cutting window openings on a wall for instance). Shallow cut, in positions you have reduced control, and so on. A blade that far away from your hand is completely out of control when you get in a bind. For me personally, there is not a pinch/bad situation in the world where I cant overpower any 7 1/4" saw (but Im a pretty big guy and work with them almost daily) but a worm will twist your wrist off in a flash even if you see it coming and where that blade goes is the question. You cant stop them. Not because of power, but because the torque is so far from the handle.

Id go for a 77mag all day long if I had to have one.


THE WORM-DRIVE MYSTIQUE
Saws with the motor parallel to the blade transfer power through a 90-degree turn. Most of these use a worm drive -- a gear design that reduces blade speed and increases torque. (Makita uses hypoid gears.) Worm drives are known for unstoppable power, but the tradeoff is a heavier, unbalanced tool with a higher price. If you know a carpenter who uses a worm drive, don't argue with him -- he's probably stronger than you are.
From: http://www.popularmechanics.com/home/reviews/4205480

[John Schweikert]

I bought a worm drive saw for the simple fact it's one of the few circular saws that is consistently made with a blade left design, perfect for the 90% right handed people for good clean sight line. I hate blade right side winder circular saws. Cordless saws usually come blade left but have poor power compared to a worm drive.

Nothing more than that. Sorry it doesn't fit the mold of the current argument.

[Geoff Barry]

I have both - an old, cheap Skil sidewinder that's fine for many tasks, and a Makita wormdrive (hypoid gearing, I guess). I'v found that when rough trimming the ends of 5/4 or greater wood, especially wide glue-ups, the sidwinder binds up like crazy. The Makita powers through much better.

[Jason White]

Get the blue Bosch 1677. Best worm drive on the planet! Great for framing and cutting masonry.



I am looking for a worm drive saw. What brand of saw do you suggest? I own a Skilsaw model 67, but it's too small for the job in question. It looks like the following photograph, quite small:

284993

Who makes the best big brother to this guy?

[Rick Potter]

I have a good friend who has been a framer for over 40 years, and his two sons for 20+. He told me the worm drive was very popular on the west coast, and the sidewinder on the east for some reason. He preferred the Skil until about 10 years ago, when many went to the Bosch. He tells me they last longer than the newer Skil's. He should know, he has worn out several. The only Skil he owns now is the one I gave him 10 years ago, because I cannot lift it with my torn rotator cuff. It's his backup, along with the 10" Skil he has for big stuff.

This preference reminds me of my son, who owns several gravel trucks, and will consider nothing except a long nose Peterbuilt.

Rick Potter

Edit: I had forgotten, but Larry's post below reminded me that one of my framer buddies remarks was about how you could reach across a sheet of ply easier with the longer saw.

[Larry Edgerton]

I have a Skill 77 or two, and a Harbor Freight I use for nasty stuff like cutting into roofs and masonary. When cutting sheet goods for a roof there is nothing better, and I do not have a hard time at reduced depths. I do like being able to easily reach across a sheet and I will cut half starters several at a time with ease. They are perfect for cutting rafter tails. They have their uses but I do most of my framing work with an old style PC and a PC saw square.

I don't see them as being any more dangerous than anything else.

Larry

[Tom M King]

As far as circular saws, I have one of each, and several of some. I see no real benefit from the worm drives unless you cut stuff using one foot as a sawhorse so you don't have to bend over as far. My favorites are the PC 347's because they are light and they made matching pairs. I have one of each left and right, and one right hander with a brake for cutting rafter ends on ones that we let run.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porter-Cable-Model-347-Heavy-Duty-Circular-Saw-71-4in-Blade-on-Right-Made-USA-/251481290350?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a8d73f66e

[John M Bailey]

What is the "pee pee factor"?

[Henry Kramer]

I have never used the Bosch but I have 4 Skil wormdrives all very old and have provided the best service one could ever imagine. You can see the blade much better than a sidewinder, great for cutting sheets of plywood. I've always thought that nothing could beat it but I am curious now about the Bosch after reading this.

[Jeff Bartley]

I've spent time with a couple different saws so I can lend an opinion and may be some different info if nothing else. Tom touched on something that some overlook in circ saws.....brakes; brakes are a really, really nice feature not found on all saws. Anyone know if the dewalt or bosch wormdrives have brakes? The porter cable saws he mentions are the same type I learned on and the the fellow I worked for also had two, one left blade and one right blade, it was nice having both! Something else I'd say to right-handers who think they need a left-side blade to see the cut: try to learn to look 'through' the blade to see your cut. You shouldn't need to crane your neck around the saw and into the dust to see your cut.
As for the sidewinder vs. wormdrive I'll add that if you're working on a timber frame the torque from a wormdrive is great and the option to put a Bigfoot blade is even better. The Bigfoot is a 10 1/4" aftermarket blade that makes deep cuts a breeze. But then again on the flip-side of the argument the largest saw we used was a 16" makita......technically a sidewinder! And boy you needed two hands on it when you pulled the trigger!
I like both types of saws, both have their place. Rich, that's a great purchase you've made. That skil will last for as long as you keep up with the oil in the case!
And John, I think the 'pee pee' factor that Mark mentions is the same one that drives some men to jack up their trucks to beyond ridiculous heights!

[Tom M King]

I like a brake for some times, but not most of the time. I like it to stop the blade quickly when I'm walking around ends of rafters while on a scaffold plank cutting them, but not for every cut made on a stack of rafters on horses. It's nice for the blade to stop turning quickly, but the little kick gets old quickly when you don't need it.

I have one of the first models of that 16" Makita, but never found a good carbide blade that I wanted to invest in. It has the only circular saw blade that I still sharpen by hand.