120V vs 240V...

[Derek Arita]

Just got a Grizz G0710 DC to augment my main DC. I can use it wired 120V or 240V. What's the difference? Will one give better performance over the other?

[Ira Matheny]

Yes, the 220v will use significantly less electricity.

[Derek Arita]

By the way, it's a 1HP motor.

[Ron Kellison]

It will use exactly the same amount of electricity. The related formulas are P=IE where the Power (measured in watts) is equal to the current X voltage. 1 HP =~745 watts

[JOSEPH RESTA]

Same operating cost. I read that 220v is reccomanded for machines that stay on for extended time as the low voltage 110v dissipates more heat.
For me the choice is also based on what other tools you have on, you may overload the 110v circuit breaker easily with dust collector.
joe

[Jason Beam]

Yes, the 220v will use significantly less electricity.

I'm sorry .. but this is absolutely false. It will use the same amount of electricity. In a properly wired circuit, 220 vs 120 will behave identically. It saves no electricity, it doesn't run cooler, it just simply doesn't work that way.

Convert everything to watts ... 220v @ 10a will be 120v @ 20a -- watts is watts, regardless. Voltage drops, amperage increases and vise versa.

Neither is better from the machine's standpoint. The value in going 220 is usually a copper wire savings decision, most of the time. Especially if you're running larger motors that draw a lot of amps at 120v. You can go to 220v and lower the amperage requirements so you can run thinner wire (i.e. less copper = cheaper to run the circuit).

[Mike Cutler]

Just got a Grizz G0710 DC to augment my main DC. I can use it wired 120V or 240V. What's the difference? Will one give better performance over the other?

No.
Any performance improvement that can be gained by using 220 versus 120 would be realized in larger motors near the cut off point of being able to run on a standard 120/20 amp circuit.
You would never see, or know, the effects in a shop situation.It would take a power analyzing scope meter to quantify the difference.

[Lee Schierer]

The only potential savings is in the cost of the wire. You can run a smaller gauge wire when using 240 that you can running on 120, but that cost savings may be offset by the higher cost of the double pole breaker.

[Claude Kolar]

I have a question then, Why does the motor seem to have more power on 220V compared to 120V? On our family farm we had a bale elevator that my dad had it wired 120V. The elevator would always stall out when we were unloading corn. We changed it over to 220V and this thing came alive. It would take anything I threw at it. Was it safe, God no.

I understand that there is no change in power, electrical usage or running cooler. It was the same motor. The only thing different was a heavier cord for the motor, which I think was only a number 12 stranded wire.

I was always curious on what made this motor perform better on 220V. I was hoping maybe someone could elaborate on this? I apologize if I am hijacking a thread.

[Ron Kellison]

I suspect this effect had to do with the gauge and distance of the wire from the source to the motor. At 110V over a long haul the single conductor can deliver less current to the motor. 220V uses two conductors and the wire can be much longer (for the same load) than 110V. If you had upgraded to a much heavier gauge cord you could have stayed with 110V but you may have started blowing breakers/fuses.

[Mike Cutler]

I suspect this effect had to do with the gauge and distance of the wire from the source to the motor. At 110V over a long haul the single conductor can deliver less current to the motor. 220V uses two conductors and the wire can be much longer (for the same load) than 110V. If you had upgraded to a much heavier gauge cord you could have stayed with 110V but you may have started blowing breakers/fuses.

+1
I'm going to take a guess, based on how many folks I've helped off load hay, and say that the elevator was plugged into an extension cord sometimes to allow you to reposition it while in use.
Many, many times, I've seen a hay elevator motor plugged into a 50' or 100', 16AWG extension cord, or multiple lengths of small gauge extension cords. to accomplish the task.
12AWG SO cord can handle more amps than a small motor will need to run, fully loaded, all day long, up to 100 feet in length on a 120 circuit. A 240 wired motor would have an even longer length than a 120 simply due to a single pole, versus a two pole AC circuit. I have our water trough heaters on #10 extension cords, but they're a 1250-1500 watt resistive load.

[JOSEPH RESTA]

Not sure how the grizzly machine is made but I expect that there is a converter inside that uptake your voltage from 120 to 240. The conversion brings its own efficiency losses for a 120v usage.
There is also the possibility you may not run the tool on a cable rated for the sampe amperage draw. For example a typical 15 Amp for the 120v and a 20 or 30 Amp for the 240v. The fact that in both cases the tool works does not mean that the 120v will have the same loss than the 220v. if they have the same amp draw yes 120v and 240v have same losses.
In term of how much it depends on many things including the distance from the circuitbreaker. To say a number I would say around 10% of total energy loss for a use with 120v . The 10% number comes from many articles you can find about charging batteries of electric vehicles that also have multiple charging options 120/220/440 volts.

[Dave Cullen]

I have a question then, Why does the motor seem to have more power on 220V compared to 120V? On our family farm we had a bale elevator that my dad had it wired 120V. The elevator would always stall out when we were unloading corn. We changed it over to 220V and this thing came alive. It would take anything I threw at it. Was it safe, God no.

I understand that there is no change in power, electrical usage or running cooler. It was the same motor. The only thing different was a heavier cord for the motor, which I think was only a number 12 stranded wire.

I was always curious on what made this motor perform better on 220V. I was hoping maybe someone could elaborate on this? I apologize if I am hijacking a thread.

Power is the product of voltage and current. For the same power, the current at 220 volts is half of what it would be at 110. Current causes voltage drop in the wires. So with the same size wire, there will be more voltage loss at 110v. The motor in your example was probably being starved of voltage due to losses in the wires.

And it's not only the wire feeding the motor that matters - every wire and junction from the power panel to the load contributes to voltage drop. Electric motors draw high current when starting from a dead stop. Most people report that 220v wired motors seem to turn on and come to speed much quicker than at 110.

To the OP's question - I would always use 220V if the installation is a coin toss.

[Keith Hankins]

Send me a PM and I will forward you an article I have on 110 .vs. 220 the why's etc. It's very informative and will answer all your questions. It's in PDF format and puts things in simple layman's terms. A great foundation for understanding the why it's better.

[scott spencer]

Yes, the 220v will use significantly less electricity.

That's one of the most widely spread bits of incorrect info on the internet. The power company bills in kilowatt/hours, and you won't see any difference in the bill. There are some advantages by switching to 220v, but consuming less power isn't one of them.

Because 220v uses two hot legs vs one, each leg carries half the amperage....as a result, you can use smaller gauge wire, and there tends to be less voltage drop and the load is more evenly distributed. Any perceived performance improvements tend to be related to the circuit's ability to supply full amperage during peak demand, which can mean quicker startups and faster recovery time from loading....those are most likely the key contributors to the saw feeling like it has more power. It's more common to have voltage drop on a 110v circuit, but many will argue that a properly sized 110v circuit will do the same thing. Nonetheless, there's no big downside in wiring for 220v if it's available other than the cost of a different plug (and sometimes a different switch)...since there's possibly some benefit I'd switch if 220v is available. If not, but you need to run wire to resolve an inadequate 110v circuit, I'd run 220v. If 220v isn't available, and you have no dimming or lugging issues, it's probably not worth bothering with.

With that said, a 1hp motor is much easier for most 110v circuits to supply fully than a 1.5-2hp motor, so you're even less likely to notice any difference with 220v in your case.

[Mike Henderson]

For a 1 HP motor, the major advantage of staying with 120V is that you can move the unit around easier. Most of us only have a few 240V outlets while we have a lot of 120V outlets. So if the unit is going to be stationary, then there's no problem with wiring it for 240V.

About the only disadvantage of 240V is that the breakers take more room in the electrical box. If you have a box that's full, you might do better to use 120V.

As others have said, there's no difference to the motor in running it on 120V or 240V, assuming your distribution circuit is of sufficient wire size. The motor will use the same amount of kilowatts, will generate the same heat, will start the same, etc.

Mike

[Mike Henderson]

I suspect this effect had to do with the gauge and distance of the wire from the source to the motor. At 110V over a long haul the single conductor can deliver less current to the motor. 220V uses two conductors and the wire can be much longer (for the same load) than 110V. If you had upgraded to a much heavier gauge cord you could have stayed with 110V but you may have started blowing breakers/fuses.
This is a bit picky, but let me correct one thing. Both 120V and 240V use two wires to supply the load. In the US, one leg of the 120V circuit is connected to ground at the distribution box and at the transformer. That does not mean that the wire supplying the load that is connected to ground is not carrying current - it certainly is.

With 240V, neither supply wire is connected to ground and, as with the 120V circuit, both wires carry current. In the US distribution system, each supply wire of a 240V circuit is 120V referenced to ground.

The fact that one wire of a 120V circuit is connected to ground is immaterial to the load. All the load sees is a two wire circuit with a voltage difference between the wires. For a 240V circuit, the load sees two wires with a voltage difference between the wires (240V in this case). With either 120V or 240V, both wires carry the same current, but for a fixed load, the 240V supply will have half the current of the 120V supply.

Mike

[Mark Andrew]

To explain this a little further -

P=I^2 R (that is power equals current squared times resistance, for this not familiar with the notation).

P=I V (That is Power equals Current times voltage).

Note that power is not dependent on the voltage in the upper equation.

In a series circuit, the current is the same all the way around. From one leg of the receptacle, through the cable, the load, back through the cable and back into the receptacle. At that point, it's parallel, and part of the house wiring.

If the current is higher, the power consumed in the cabling is increased by the square. The power consumed in the cabling at 2A is 4x the power consumed at 1A. V=IR. Thus the voltage drop in the cable is 4x as much at 2A as it is at 1A. How do we get the current down? Increase the voltage. Thus at 240V, there is half as much current required for the same load, and a quarter of the voltage drop in the cabling. This only becomes significant when R is high. Long lengths of inadequate cable will do that.

This is why power transmission lines use kilovolts, to keep the I2R loss down.

In a home shop, you will not see much benefit, except possibly:

Reduced total load on a 120V circuit, if you move one load to a 240V circuit. This may be a crucial benefit, if say the lights or a dust collector are on the same circuit.
Elimination of inadequate cabling - if you determinate a 120V extension cable with 240V NEMA connectors, it suddenly will be 4x "better" in terms of voltage drop.

[Howard Acheson]

>>>> Will one give better performance over the other?

No, either voltage will work equally. The motor doesn't know or care whether it's getting 120 volts or 240 volts. The motor runs on 120 volts no matter what the input.

[Howard Acheson]

>>>> Yes, the 220v will use significantly less electricity

That's incorrect. Motors run on wattage and the electric company charges you for wattage. The wattage is the same for both voltages. Wattage is Amps X Voltage. A 240 V motor input will have 1/2 the amperage so, for example, a 240 volt input will draw 10 amps which equals 2400 watts. The same motor with 120 input will draw 20 amps so 120 v X 20 A equals 2400 watts. Same power draw.

[Jason Roehl]

>>>> Will one give better performance over the other?

No, either voltage will work equally. The motor doesn't know or care whether it's getting 120 volts or 240 volts. The motor runs on 120 volts no matter what the input.

This. To expound slightly, motors that can be wired for either voltage are setup so that at 240V the full voltage goes through each pair of windings (120V drop over each winding in a pair). If that same motor is then wired for 120V by the user, the connections are made such that all windings are in parallel and receiving a 120V potential. Same voltage and current in each winding regardless (save for the very minor difference in loss due to voltage drop in the supply wire mentioned above).

[Derek Arita]

There's some great info here. Thanks so much. Seems I should do whatever is convenient as either will give me the same performance, which was my main concern. I'll use the DC further as it is, wired for 120v and see what happens. If I have any issues, I can always switch over to 240v. I may even have more 240v receptacles set up already. Thanks again.

[Jason White]

Give it a dedicated 220-volt circuit. Will come up to speed faster and use less amperage (which means your overhead lights won't flicker when you turn it on).



Just got a Grizz G0710 DC to augment my main DC. I can use it wired 120V or 240V. What's the difference? Will one give better performance over the other?