Help with cyclone duct layout

[Brian Hale]

Hey All!!

I'm finalizing the duct layout for my cyclone DC system and I'd like your impressions/criticisms on the good bad and ugly. The shop is 30' wide east to west and 40' long north to south. The 2 post are 9' high and there's a beam on top 6"x18"

The exact placement of the machines in these sketchup JPEGs is not set in stone and will vary depending on how the duct fits together but in general I like them where you see them. While you'll see 45's in the sketch i'll make use of 22.5's whenever possible. I've also placed 45 deg Wyes at the end of each run for clean out or expansion. All duct will be 6" PVC. The tablesaw will be modified for a 6" port and have a 4" drop over the blade guard. I may need to regulate this with the TS blast gate.

The cyclone, which should arrive today, is the ClearVue CV1800 with the optional 16" impeller.

Brian :)

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[Chris Merriam]

I have a 4 inch PVC line above my TS too, but I terminated mine horizontally, not in a wye like you have. The 4in pipe from Lowes will accept a 4in wide HVAC adjustable elbow fitting, it will slip right inside the PVC. Attach 4in flex to the other end and you can adjust your blade side dust collection in 5 seconds. I take the whole assembly off when using my sled for example.

[Rollie Kelly]

I believe I would put the DC on the same wall as the Jointer and planer, they will produce the greatest load for the DC.
Rollie

[Chris Padilla]

Wow, that is a nice-sized shop!! *Jealous*!!! :)

I didn't know you could get 22.5* elbows in 6" PVC. Where I have 90* needs in my 6" PVC duct run, I put them together with two 45* elbows.

Do you plan to have manually-operated blast gates? Some of them just look high in your diagram but I'm sure you'll place them appropriately.

The feed to the right of your table saw *could* get in the way with a particularly wide cut but I doubt you would have to deal with that too much. Just a thought.

Give some thoughts to a floor sweep. I put one on mine and I use it all the time to sweep stuff into. You just have to be diligent about not sweeping metal into it.

What is the table on the other side of your jointer?

[Brian Hale]

Good stuff guys!!

I need the cyclone on that wall so I can vent outside when weather permits. If I went to the other wall the neighbors might have something to say about the noise. :eek:

The shop may sound big but it'll get small soon enough :rolleyes:

Yes, Lowes has 22.5 deg fittings in 6" pipe. DMV and Schedule 40

Blast gates are manual and they'll get placed so I can reach them. Wish I had $$ for remote controlled gates but I still work for a living ....

Floor Sweep........ Bet I could fill the bin pretty quick with handplane shavings. Great though, I hadn't considered it.

That table is my 15" planer


The cyclone arrived a couple hours ago.. Let the fun begin!!!

Brian :)

[Brian Hale]

A couple more questions....

Is there an "excepted norm" for blast gate placement, close to the main or at the machine?

For the drops that are not supported by a wall, should I add some support from the floor. Is the weight of 9' of duct hanging from the ceiling a concern?

Brian

[Alan Bienlein]

Just put them where it's easy to reach and you will be more likely to use them.

[Evan Patton]

Is that an edge sander? If so, I'd think that would need the highest flow/SP. I don't see a chop saw, but those can be pretty demanding as well, along with Rollie's comment about the jointer and planer.

[Jim German]

The duct work layout looks fine to me. I wouldn't worry about how far it is from the jointer and planer, they tend to be well designed for dust collection and the DC won't have any issues pulling from them.

But keep in mind that the DC is going to be very loud. I'd look to see if there is somewhere you can put it where you can build a closet around it to keep the noise down.

[Brian Hale]

Well I got the cyclone hung on the wall and I put it just over 12' high. Then I put blast gates on the intake and the bottom of cyclone body so I could run an extension cord to it to test it. Flipped the breaker and.......... Heavens To Mergitroid! ! I was completly unprepared for the the amount of air this beast moves. It really is beyond words.

I had read it would be loud and it didn't disappoint. SPL meter arrives today so I'll get a number soon but an enclosure is the next itam on the list after the wiring.

When I I fist started it I noticed the whole cyclone twisted a fair amount from the torque of that big impeller and it got me wondering what to do with intake where it exits the enclousure. Should I try to stop the twisting motion or leave enough room for it to do what it wants? I don't like the idea restricting the intake chute, to much torque I believe. I could tie the cyclone body to the wall ??

Thoughts?

The enclosure will be 2x4's, OSB on the outside, unfaced insulation and carpet on the inside. Sound good?

I think I'll leave the motor exposed out the top of the enclosure

Brian :)

[Ole Anderson]

When I I fist started it I noticed the whole cyclone twisted a fair amount from the torque of that big impeller and it got me wondering what to do with intake where it exits the enclousure. Should I try to stop the twisting motion or leave enough room for it to do what it wants? I don't like the idea restricting the intake chute, to much torque I believe. I could tie the cyclone body to the wall ??

Thoughts?

The enclosure will be 2x4's, OSB on the outside, unfaced insulation and carpet on the inside. Sound good?

I think I'll leave the motor exposed out the top of the enclosure

Brian :)
I would definitely brace the cyclone to the wall to resist the startup torque. Try to use Roxul Safe-n-Sound if it is available in your area, works way better than fiberglass for sound absorption. Also think about lining a serpentine air return path to absorb reflected sound. Don't go too far out of the way to keep the motor out of the closet, plenty of cooling air moving in there and as long as the motor is TEFC, dust is no problem, but then of course, if you have dust, then you do have a problem. However if you exhaust directly outdoors, cooling air can become an issue.

[Chris Padilla]

I used a small length of flex hose on my intake to attached to the S&D hard line however I did this more for ease of connection but it had the side benefit of isolating the movement of my cyclone to the hardline system of pipes. I also hung my cyclone with vibration dampers to my rafters in hopes of mitigating sound/vibration transfer to the rest of my house so it wiggles around a bit when firing up and running. All connections from my cyclone to "accessories" are done with small lengths of flex. It was simply easier and the isolation was necessary IMO.

[Brian Hale]

Yes, a folded air return is in the plan for the south east corner of the enclosure and I will be venting outside during the warmer months so the motor ( which is not TEFC) will need some free air for cooling. I'll look for the Roxul but I haven't run across it yet.

The cyclone mounting plate sits on some 1/2" thick medium density foam which compressed to about 3/8" thick under the weight of the unit and appear to work pretty good, I can't feel any vibrations in the OSB shop walls or floor, at least nothing to speak of. I have a Fernco rubber coupling on the intake now but the may be too rigid. I ordered 25' of flex hose with the cyclone so I can switch to that if need be.

Ill look for a way to tie the cyclone body to the wall without transfering vibrations. Still have tons of that 1/2" foam laying around. Perhaps I can rig up something with some springs, got a few of those laying around...

Thanks Again
Brian :)

[Drew Pavlak]

Hey Brian,

You and I have almost the exact same system. I haven't gotten to installing it yet. Still too busy get drywall up in the barn. I am planning on using the Roxul Safe N Sound to sound deaden my room. I have heard a lot of good things about it on the site here. I am going to build a filter box instead of the planned design of stacking the filters, just not convenient enough for cleaning. Plan is it use 8" Flexible duct work from the exhaust to the filter box, hopefully acting as a "Muffler". The left over piece I have put in the attic to 2 - 14" X 6" return air vents. This will equalize the pressure between the 2 rooms. With it being in the attic I can also blow in cellulose insulation around it to help deaden it further.

Did you get the aluminium brackets, or did you make your own? If you made your own, could you add a triangle piece to the out side to keep the supports from shifting? Just a thought.

[Brian Hale]

I made my brackets according to the plans that come with the instructions. Id advise you to make the supports a couple inches longer than they call for, it's real close between the blower housing and the wall.

I'm also putting my filters side by side and using 8" insulated hvac duct from the blower housing, through a Y and into the top of each filter. If you don't already have a good source, I bought these starter rings and Y's and they're good quality items


Y adapter

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B002T6NKEQ

Starter ring
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0085UYRKG


Brian

[Jim Andrew]

Do you have access to the blue denim insulation that Menards sells? That stuff is fantastic for sound insulation.

[Chris Merriam]

My Lowes sells Roxull, it's insulation, sitting right next to the pink stuff.

[Brian Hale]

Ok, got it! According to their website, my Lowes has it in stock for both 2x4's and 2x6's so ill pick some up this weekend. I need to decide if going with 2x6's will gain me more sound deading or if 2x4's will be enough.

Do you think all that airflow will put Roxul dust in the air? Should I still go with a layer of carpet or some other covering on the interior?

Thanks!
Brian :)

[Chris Parks]

A couple of points about duct installation. Don't have the wye with the leg pointing down or it can cause an issue in some circumstances. If the wye is upstream from another machine pick up and the upstream wye is not used frequently it will fill up with saw dust when the downstream wye is in use and form a plug in the upstream wye/line. Install all wyes horizontally using two 45's to turn the duct down to the floor. If the wye must be installed with the leg down put a blast gate between it and the wye itself to prevent the dust accumulation. Of course if the wye has not got any other wyes downstream and thus no dust passing it then this is not an issue.

[jim gossage]

The set up looks great. I have two small suggestions. Your diagram suggests the use of flex hose after your first 2 wye's. Flex hose just increases resistance so I would try to avoid it anywhere in your main lines. When you set up your blast gates, point them all in a uniform direction relative to each machine so you can easily tell if your blast gates are open or closed. I find myself doing this frequently to make sure that I haven't left any others open, and it takes a little more concentration when their orientation varies. Also, I spent a fair amount of time looking for the best fittings, etc. I really like the floor sweeps and flex hose from Penn State and the blast gates from Lee Valley (they are a little pricier but never clog).

[Brian Hale]

Here's a few shots of my progress thus far. I've run out of fittings and Lowes won't have then till next weekend so I'm starting on the enclosure today. As usually happens with my projects I've made some changes to my original layout based on some suggestions from you folks and a lack of forethought on my part.

Brian :)





East wall
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West wall
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East wall
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Speedy starter ring for 9" HVAC duct
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4" reducing wye for TS over the blade
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Blue tape on floor shows where the TS will go
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=286037&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1396177688 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=286037&d=1396177688)
Bandsaw and 6x80 sander ducting (not complete)
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=286040&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1396177803 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=286040&d=1396177803)

[Brian Cole]

Can you explain the "speedy starter ring" photo? Are you referring to the black fitting that connects your cyclone intake to the PVC? I searched Lowes and the internet for that term and came up empty.

Nice photos. I'm just learning sketchup and am impressed with your shop layout images too. Did you import duct and other images for your shop layout?

Thanks.

[Brian Hale]

Brian

Yes, the black PVC starter adapter on the exhaust is what I'm referring to. I posted a link above to Amazon and I really like them, good price and quite sturdy. As for Sketchup, I imported several items like some duct work and machines but drew up many myself if they weren't already out there in the "warehouse"...

The photos were taken with my phone (with some work in DXO Optics Pro) and they're a bit distorted but serve to get the point across

Brian :)