kitchen cabinet prototype build questions....

[Justin Jump]

Just a quick review of the general construction of a typical base cabinet with one drawer and two doors.

I of course will adapt if I add more drawers, but I am thinking of possibly pull outs instead of more drawers…well, the wife hasn’t made her mind up yet.

This will be a prototype build for me, then I will use it in the shop for something.

But I plan on making it to the exact same way I will be building all of the others, though I will use BORG plywood for now and just poly it, but I plan on building it if I were building the kitchen cabinets.

Pre-finished ply for the carcass
If I can find it, I plan on using Maple, then painting it white for the face frames, doors and drawers. If not, what is the consensus on Poplar?
Soft close, 22” slides – Accuride or Repon’s
½” Overlay hinges, (whatever Rockler might have)

The construction will be 1/8” deep dado’s and still using pocket screws to hold everything together until the glue dries.

Attaching the face frames to the carcass will be either biscuits or pocket screws, or both.

I do have a few questions……

1.) the squaring blocks and front support – think these are really needed? I saw Norm use them, so I added them.

2.) the 5/8” dado on the back. With a ½” rear panel, this leaves 1/8” for scribing. I measured 4 different cabinets, and they all had 1/8” back there.

3.) The gap for the raised panel door – do I design this gap in, or just use the hinges to adjust for it? If so, what should the gap be? 1/16”, 1/32”….

4.) 2” for the face frames, 1 5/8” for rails and stiles. Pretty typical, how does this grow on everyone?

Thanks in advance for any input…..

[Mark Bolton]

Just a quick review of the general construction of a typical base cabinet with one drawer and two doors.

I of course will adapt if I add more drawers, but I am thinking of possibly pull outs instead of more drawers…well, the wife hasn’t made her mind up yet.

This will be a prototype build for me, then I will use it in the shop for something.

But I plan on making it to the exact same way I will be building all of the others, though I will use BORG plywood for now and just poly it, but I plan on building it if I were building the kitchen cabinets.

Pre-finished ply for the carcass
If I can find it, I plan on using Maple, then painting it white for the face frames, doors and drawers. If not, what is the consensus on Poplar?
Soft close, 22” slides – Accuride or Repon’s
½” Overlay hinges, (whatever Rockler might have)

The construction will be 1/8” deep dado’s and still using pocket screws to hold everything together until the glue dries.

Attaching the face frames to the carcass will be either biscuits or pocket screws, or both.

I do have a few questions……

1.) the squaring blocks and front support – think these are really needed? I saw Norm use them, so I added them.

2.) the 5/8” dado on the back. With a ½” rear panel, this leaves 1/8” for scribing. I measured 4 different cabinets, and they all had 1/8” back there.

3.) The gap for the raised panel door – do I design this gap in, or just use the hinges to adjust for it? If so, what should the gap be? 1/16”, 1/32”….

4.) 2” for the face frames, 1 5/8” for rails and stiles. Pretty typical, how does this grow on everyone?

Thanks in advance for any input…..

My input would be to scrap the squaring blocks and just use a stretcher front and back. Its much simpler and gives you many places for fastening tops. I would think about going to a dado on the back rather than a rabbet. You should design for the gap in the door. Size of the gap is your choice. We run 1.5" face frames and 2.375 on our door rails and stiles but thats only because our cope/stick profile is .375". You can make them any size you like.

[Jeff Duncan]

1.) the squaring blocks and front support – think these are really needed? I saw Norm use them, so I added them.

2.) the 5/8” dado on the back. With a ½” rear panel, this leaves 1/8” for scribing. I measured 4 different cabinets, and they all had 1/8” back there.

3.) The gap for the raised panel door – do I design this gap in, or just use the hinges to adjust for it? If so, what should the gap be? 1/16”, 1/32”….

4.) 2” for the face frames, 1 5/8” for rails and stiles. Pretty typical, how does this grow on everyone?

Thanks in advance for any input…..

1) like Mark said, just use full stretchers and you'll be better off.

2) you don't need an extra 1/8" as you usually don't scribe individual kitchen cabinets. Instead plan on using end panels that can be scribed to the walls.

3) design to doors for the gap. You can't just adjust as presumably there will be adjacent cabinets and doors? Roughly 3/32" in the middle and 1/16" on each end.

4) personal choice, I like my FF a bit narrower. 1-5/8" for door parts is very narrow though….typical is more like 2-1/4".

A couple other quick thoughts….if this is for your own kitchen I highly recommend you think hard about using Blum undermount slides instead of Accurides. These are basically the standard today and in the overall cost of a kitchen are pretty affordable. As far as solid wood I use soft maple for anything that's going to be painted. I know a lot of guys use poplar, I just find it too soft for anything that's going to see daily use.

good luck,
JeffD

[johnny means]

Why bother with biscuits or pocket screws on paint grade face frames? A few brads or pins will save you a lot of labor and simplify things. Simplicity equals less chance for error. In fact, modern adhesives, fasteners and adequate clamping all but make joinery unnecessary in kitchen cabinets.

[Erik Christensen]

The drawing in your post implies an integral kick plate and the cabinet bottom sitting on the floor. I prefer the euro legs that are adjustable for leveling each cabinet and a detachable kick plate so that you can get under the cabinets for wiring (led lights, etc), plumbing (dishwasher hose, etc) and to mop out water if you have a leak.

[John Bomment]

1-5/8" for door parts is very narrow though….typical is more like 2-1/4".JeffD

This,
what type of hinge will you use?
A euro type cup hinge will drill thru your profile on such narrow stiles.

[Peter Quinn]

You don't need scribe on every box, just end panels, be they plywood or raised panel to match the doors. 1/8" scribe is near useless unless the house is near perfect. I'd plan to keep boxes 1/4"-1/2" off the wall at the back so nothing hits, you can shim to keep things solid, include at least 3/8" scribe on ends, I prefer 1/2". Most blades prefer material on both sides of the cut to keep things clean, if you have just enough to shave off, a jig saw or your saw of choice will just sort of bounce around on the edge and create a mess. Face frames can be narrow, as long as they cover the plywood, doors need to accommodate your hinge choices, 2" or more is more typical.

Forget the glue blocks, just run a solid stretcher like in the front, you will have plenty of plywood drops to make these, screw the back to them, adds great strength. Glue blocks? Useless.

I like to build with ladder kicks and NOT run the plywood sides to the ground. If the floor is dead level it may not be a problem...........very few floors are dead level. Much easier to make a separate base, level it, secure to floor, build boxes with flat bottoms and just place them on the platform. I've had to scribe those integral toe kicks to the floor before due to a bump in the middle of a run, real joy there.

Ditto on the blum slides, good stuff. Grass works well to, about the same price, pick one and learn the install sequence. Accuride side mounts? I used those on my shop cabs, would not want them in my kitchen.

[Dave Bonde]

I don't know what your layout looks like but since you mentioned drawers I would highly encourage you to consider drawers over cabinets with pullouts. I did that in my kitchen as well as the last kitchen I did for someone else and they have commented many times how much they like the drawers over cabinets with pullouts. My wife agrees she (and I) like that you don't have to open a door at least 90 degrees then pull out a shelf/drawer. Here are a couple of pictures for reference.284502284501

[Larry Edgerton]

. In fact, modern adhesives, fasteners and adequate clamping all but make joinery unnecessary in kitchen cabinets.

Hey, why not just use duct tape?

Larry

[Justin Jump]

@ johnny.....was trying to stay away from having to use clamps, and I am a bit hesitant to just use glue and brads. Though, I did do that here, and after a good year,I can say that the stiles and riles are still attached fairly well.


http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?201128-Last-couple-of-weekend-s-Project-and-a-few-questions-from-it&highlight=

[Mark Bolton]

Hey, why not just use duct tape?

Larry

+1 for sure. Couldnt imagine.

[Peter Quinn]

Hey, why not just use duct tape?

Larry

Where would you put the duck tape? Use it like a clamp to hold on the FF until glue dries? You might be on to something here....Maybe that new Nexabond makes the whole thing irrelevant? Just push the parts together, hold, take a bite of sandwich....seconds later permanent bond, even on butt joints. Would the duck tape help with alignment? I like the domino for FF connections, and I unabashedly use pocket screws on own work, I'm gong to try the duck tape thing, lord knows I have plenty of it.

[johnny means]

Hey, why not just use duct tape?

Larry

Larry, modern duct tape is of very poor quality.

[Charles Lent]

Justin,

Look into the method that Marc Sommerfeld developed for making cabinets. His videos are on Youtube, but can also be purchased from his website. His "Cabinetmaking Made Easy" video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klv0jzWD26w will give you some great tips. He uses offset tongue and groove joints and pocket screws to assemble cabinets and his method works very well. After watching his method I now build cabinets his way. The cabinets go together easier, fit together more precisely, and are much stronger than any previous method that I used. Although he sells the router bits and the pocket hole tools you can buy similar versions from several other manufacturers that will also do this. It's his cabinetmaking method that I want you to see.

If you are just going to paint the cabinet, poplar will be a fine choice for the face frames. Grade A or B pine plywood will work OK for the carcass, but I prefer to use cabinet grade birch plywood. I usually build with birch or pre-finished maple veneer cabinet plywood with soft maple face frames (since soft maple is a close grain match to birch), but my cabinets are almost always stained.

Charley