I just GOTTA stop doin' this!

[Roger Chandler]

yeah........I know, I've heard the saying at least a hundred times........."life is too short to turn crappy wood!" But this is not just any wood.......it is 350 + year old wood from the civil war era........the Stonewall Jackson Prayer Tree. Not to mention the safety issues!!! :eek: The worst stuff I have ever worked with, yet because it is historical and the newspaper and TV station recently ran another set of articles and spots on the things our club has made........well you know how it goes.........you get calls from people you know and many you don't know.........who want you to make them something.

One such call was from a relative of one of our precious ladies at the church......she gave me a list.....and one was "please make me a bowl".......I explained, the wood is in such bad shape, I don't know if there is a piece that I have big enough to make a bowl! Well, "please.......if at all possible, make me a bowl!?!"

"I will try..........I can't promise, but I will try.....that is the best I can do!" Of course, her list has several smaller items as well, but she wants a bowl! I gotta learn how to say no!

Well, with some skillfully administered finesse, I managed to get this to the state you see here in the pics without completely detonating! :eek: Pucker factor............well yeah! :eek:

I want some input from some of you who have experience with this type of cracking in oak. [white oak]

At the point this is at, what would you use to fill the cracks? Do you even think that I should allow this lady to have this, if the cracks are filled? I tried as I said I would, and it IS a bowl........it is historical civil war era wood, and has been made even more famous by all the media attention..........

For me personally, a piece like this does not represent the general quality of my work.....and I am hesitant, but previous notice was given and she said "Please ............."

It is still on the lathe, and I am interested in your advice on making this a viable piece for this lady......

Go for it with a repair, or too far gone, taking into consideration the value placed on this by the historical nature and the meaning the lady puts on it?

284329 284330284331 284332

[Roger Chandler]

I forgot to mention.........we are nearing the end of the available wood from this tree.........we still have the root ball [over 9 ft. in diameter] but it will be later this spring when we can get to it.......and we do not know what, if any of it is useful!

[Dennis Ford]

If the wood is dry, you could fill those cracks. If the wood is not yet dry, filling the cracks will just force the wood to crack elsewhere as it shrinks. If you get more of this wood while it is still wet; consider boiling the blanks. For most wood, boiling is more trouble than it is worth IMO; for this wood it would be worth the trouble.

[Roger Chandler]

If the wood is dry, you could fill those cracks. If the wood is not yet dry, filling the cracks will just force the wood to crack elsewhere as it shrinks. If you get more of this wood while it is still wet; consider boiling the blanks. For most wood, boiling is more trouble than it is worth IMO; for this wood it would be worth the trouble.

Dennis ........the tree has been down since May of 2011. I have had these pieces underneath my deck covered with a tarp and up on pallets. I have not measured the moisture content with a meter, but that might not be a bad idea. I have had descent luck with filling cracks, but these are large.......I wonder if epoxy, colored with dye might be the way to go, then take a final pass once it is dry to get the final shape. This is less than 3/8" thick.........getting towards 1/4" on the walls, and there is not much more to be taken off, but a light pass is possible.

[Steve Doerr]

Roger, you might consider using brass key filings or turquoise as filler with the epoxy. I use CA and not epoxy. With that in mind, I spray the wood with lacquer prior to using the CA so that it does not stain the wood. That way you can take your final cut and not have to worry about stains on the wood. Just my 2 cents worth. HTH
Steve

[Brian Kent]

Because it is what it is, I would fill it and finish it. I was wondering what kind of filler might represent that era, metal shavings in epoxy? Iron? Copper? Brass? Would the rust on iron or the patina on copper end up being meaningful?

[Dan Hintz]

Part of me says the cracks add character to this one, particularly because of the era it comes from... reminds me of old barn wood or similar. Consider stabilizing the bowl but not filling the cracks.

[Doug Ladendorf]

Can you fill with alternate blue and gray colored epoxy?

[Richard Coers]

Looks to me that the one whole side is ready to depart. I would never have turned that one, nor would I suggest you ever turn that lathe on again with that blank on it. Oil it and deliver it. It is what it is.

[Jim Underwood]

Use a wood stabilizer system like that cactus juice stuff from Curt Seebeck. Otherwise you might be picking pieces of that thing out of your face...

[Bart Leetch]

Looks to me that the one whole side is ready to depart. I would never have turned that one, nor would I suggest you ever turn that lathe on again with that blank on it. Oil it and deliver it. It is what it is.


Use a wood stabilizer system like that cactus juice stuff from Curt Seebeck. Otherwise you might be picking pieces of that thing out of your face...

I agree!!!!!!

[steven carter]

Roger, like some new turners, years ago I tended to treat every blank like it had come from a historically important tree :). As a result I filled quit a few cracks, most fairly satisfactorily. If it were me, I would wrap the outside with stretch wrap and begin on the inside. I had good luck using brass filings from key shops and CA glue. After fixing the inside, I would unwrap the bottom part of the bowl and fill/stabilize the bottom half, and then the next 1/4, then the last 1/4, keeping the sections not being worked on wrapped. I've not used brass powder, but would be tempted on this bowl. Good luck with what you decide.

[Steve Peterson]

I have turned 2-3 small white oak bowls with similar cracking. White oak has so much strength that it usually holds together even as you are roughing it out. The sound changes when cracks appear. And obviously, you need to take light cuts and be careful because it may blow up if you get a catch.

I usually fill the cracks with epoxy after it has been turned and dried. Epoxy with brass shavings or turquoise both look good in white oak. Epoxy does not seem to soak into white oak. You can power sand most of the epoxy away with the lathe stopped without hurting the oak.

I am curious to see how this bowl turns out.

Steve

[Roger Chandler]

Looks to me that the one whole side is ready to depart. I would never have turned that one, nor would I suggest you ever turn that lathe on again with that blank on it. Oil it and deliver it. It is what it is.

So much for "skillfully administered finesse!" Richard, please know that I stayed out of the line of fire the whole time on this and also had on my Trend airshield Pro........oh so sharp gouges and very light cuts were the deal on this with frequent stop and look sequences..........and to begin with what cracks I saw on the blank, I put thin CA glue in them before starting.

[Richard Coers]

So much for "skillfully administered finesse!" Richard, please know that I stayed out of the line of fire the whole time on this and also had on my Trend airshield Pro........oh so sharp gouges and very light cuts were the deal on this with frequent stop and look sequences..........and to begin with what cracks I saw on the blank, I put thin CA glue in them before starting.

So if you put on your Trend airshield pro, and then let a stranger come up to you with a hammer, would you let them hit you in the face with it? That's the kind of impact forces your face will get if that one side comes off at speed. If you are comfortable with taking that hit, then by all means continue with your work. Personally, I would not be comfortable with that hammer hit. That plastic will not spread out the forces enough and you will get broken face bones. Your choice, famous old tree or not!

[Roger Chandler]

So if you put on your Trend airshield pro, and then let a stranger come up to you with a hammer, would you let them hit you in the face with it? That's the kind of impact forces your face will get if that one side comes off at speed. If you are comfortable with taking that hit, then by all means continue with your work. Personally, I would not be comfortable with that hammer hit. That plastic will not spread out the forces enough and you will get broken face bones. Your choice, famous old tree or not!

Point taken........well said! ;)

[Brian Kent]

A big stranger or a little stranger? I wouldn't see how high a speed I could risk.

[Rob Price]

I would fill it with colored epoxy or brass shavings with epoxy. I haven't seen it, but I've heard CA used as a gap filler can get brittle with age.

I've had good results with marine epoxy. More flexible, really thin and penetrates well into those cracks.

The wood is worth saving. I think epoxy, light cleanup cuts, sand and finish. I would wear glasses under the air shield pro though just in case.

[Paul Engle]

Stop drill the cracks ( keeps the cracks from running ) . fill with sawdust and wood glue mix and allow to dry , finish using a below surface oil like mineral oil or linseed .

[Lloyd Butler]

I know the wood is historic, but I would be tempted to fill the cracks with colored epoxy, and then really darken the outside of the bowl to try and make the crack not stand out so much. Leave then visible on the inside with a nice oil finish, but from the outside try and make it so that they do not stand out or draw your eye to them.

Maybe add some beads/grooves then a couple of coats of milk paint and sand back through the top layer a bit to give it a worn look.

Maybe some grain filler on the outside to help seal the pores and then some dark stains to give it a aged look.

Lloyd

[Brian Ashton]

Dennis ........the tree has been down since May of 2011. I have had these pieces underneath my deck covered with a tarp and up on pallets. I have not measured the moisture content with a meter, but that might not be a bad idea. I have had descent luck with filling cracks, but these are large.......I wonder if epoxy, colored with dye might be the way to go, then take a final pass once it is dry to get the final shape. This is less than 3/8" thick.........getting towards 1/4" on the walls, and there is not much more to be taken off, but a light pass is possible.

I'd be going with epoxy mixed with a filler to give strength (epoxy on it's own isn't all that strong) and viscosity. I'd also make the epoxy black; can't hide it so might as well accentuate it.

[Roger Chandler]

Thanks to all for your replies on this. I am going to have to get some filler material........probably some sort of inlace and epoxy. I do not have any on hand at the moment so I guess an order from CS-USA is in the works.........I need a couple of other things anyway, so ............:D

There were some good ideas ........I especially like the idea of stop drilling the cracks........had not thought about that one, but it makes sense, and the inlace filler should look nice with it.

I do not know how this will turn out as of yet, and I am also going to put a couple of heavy coats of shellac on it and let dry so I can stiffen the fibers and hopefully get cuts with a lot let tear out when I get all the filler and epoxy all dry and ready to finish this thing.

For this historical wood.........it should be the star of the show in my opinion, but with the condition I am forced into either utilizing it or throwing it away........not perfect options, but perhaps the lady will appreciate all the work!

[Robert Edington]

Stabilize the cracks, Sand it, Finish it. Then stitch it across the cracks with copper wire or similar wire. You can get different sizes of wire to suit.
RP