Shop walls

[Cliff Polubinsky]

I'm in the process of converting a 20x24 outbuilding in the backyard to my new shop. Almost to the point where I close up the walls and cathedral ceiling (fancy reference to leaving the space above the rafters open). I was originally thinking of using 7/16 OSB for the walls and something a bit thinner for the ceiling, but I found some siding at Home Depot (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded-96-in-Composite-Panel-Siding-29055/202190402) that might work and look a lot better.

Anyone see any downside to using this? It's fancier than OSB and I wouldn't have to paint it right away. The picture in the link shows it a dark grey but the material in the store is a tan, and I can paint it a lighter color once the weather breaks if I decide it's too dark.

It's 3/8" thick which is a touch thinner than I originally planned, but would that 1/16" make that much difference? Anything else I should consider?

Cliff

[Lee Reep]

My basement is my shop. I would give anything to be at ground level, with high ceilings, and lots of natural light. I'd seriously reconsider putting in a ceiling. Maybe outfit that space for storage, and possibly some skylights to let in light?

[Thomas Canfield]

I could not tell fro the link, but expect that the "composite" siding is a Masonite or fiber board with primer. I have used "smart panel" which is OSB with exterior glue and embossed surface with primer for the interior of my previous and current shop and also for the exterior of current shop which has a similar appearance. It is probably stronger and cost about the same. I like it better than Hardy Board for exterior since it is not brittle, but interior it works well to hang items to using screws if not overly heavy. I just butted the joints on current shop and had a coat of interior gloss latex enamel applied. I did have it raised off the floor and installed a 2" high strip of the siding as a base trim to cover the floor gap but eliminate possibility of wicking water up in the panel and using the trim as sacrificial piece. Moisture in the composite sidings are a major problem and the composite siding on my garage had to be replaced due to moisture wicking up from bottom.

[Cliff Polubinsky]

Lee, I'm treating it like a cathedral ceiling so it's following the roofline, not the bottom of the rafters . As you said it would be a shame to close off all that open space.

Cliff

[Jeff Erbele]

I'm in the process of converting a 20x24 outbuilding in the backyard to my new shop. Almost to the point where I close up the walls and cathedral ceiling (fancy reference to leaving the space above the rafters open).
Cliff

No, No. LOL! If you leave the space above your rafters open, you have no roof. :D


I was originally thinking of using 7/16 OSB for the walls and something a bit thinner for the ceiling, but I found some siding at Home Depot (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded-96-in-Composite-Panel-Siding-29055/202190402) that might work and look a lot better.

Anyone see any downside to using this? It's fancier than OSB and I wouldn't have to paint it right away. The picture in the link shows it a dark grey but the material in the store is a tan, and I can paint it a lighter color once the weather breaks if I decide it's too dark.

It's 3/8" thick which is a touch thinner than I originally planned, but would that 1/16" make that much difference? Anything else I should consider?

Cliff

I would want to know exactly what "composite" material means and the ramifications.
If it matters to you, consider hiding nail or screw heads, or being content with those exposed and painted.

The customer reviews seem worth reading and considering; also noting some is speculation and skepticism. One must weigh reviews though; if I were as skeptical as some wrote, I probably would have bought another product. The review could be a ploy at slamming the product and competition.

As mentioned wicking, especially at the floor could be an issue, but controllable with a stand-off (gap) from the floor, that gap covered with some other material. Besides baseboard options, this product used in dairy barns and food service operations is waterproof, durable, easily cleanable and easy to maintain:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded-4-ft-x-8-ft-White-090-FRP-Wall-Board-MFTF12IXA480009600/100389836
You could cut it to fit your anticipated needs, perhaps from 4 ft wainscoting, anywhere down to 4" or more baseboard. Home Depot also sells the "H" panel connectors, "L" corner connectors and "J" top / end caps
I have first hand experience with this product and it performs very well, as advertised. Cost is what it is.

Down sizing from 7/16 to 3/8 is a matter of 1/16
It may or may not matter much. The concern might be bowing, especially on the ceiling.

Personally I would not care much for "the look", particularly the grooves, but that means absolutely nothing if it is appealing to you and fits your criteria.

[Jim Andrew]

, Do you live in a city, with a building code, where you might have to have electical inspected? Some cities require sheetrock in certain sized buildings, so you might check with your code official before you use this material. It is probably strong enough for your use, but I would not want to get into a mess with your code official.

[Charles Wiggins]

When it comes to all things shop I don't give an rip about looks. If it works it's good. So I am not going to pay more than I have to for shop walls, and that panel costs about 60% more than OSB in this area. I would also be concerned about the ramifications of "composite" material. The first thing that came to mind is how much weight will it hold without warping or a screw pulling out? With my OSB walls I can hang just about anything anywhere I please. And painting didn't take all that long. Besides, if I don't paint before I start moving equipment in, I probably never will.

[Brian Tax]

It looks like LP SmartSide, I used OSB on the inside and SmartSide on the outside, there is pretty much no difference except the OSB was thicker and cheaper. A couple of coats of paint and the OSB looks good, plus only a matter of time till the walls get dinged up anyway, just glad I did not do sheet rock.

[Julie Moriarty]

When we firred out the walls in the basement, we shot 2x2s to the foundation walls, placed rigid foam board between them and nailed 1/2" plywood-core paneling to it. It's pretty solid. I did the same thing in the workshop but used 1/4" plywood core paneling and it's held up fine. But without the foam board, no way would the 1/4" have worked. Everything I've hung on the walls in the shop has been mounted to a stud and that kinda limits you when you can only install anchors at 16" intervals but we've hung speakers and pictures in the finished part (with the 1/2") and there's been no problem. What you plan to hang on the wall should dictate what material you install.

[David Hostetler]

Are you wanting this for the interior or exterior of your shop builiding? I assume interior by the way you asked your question... But I could be wrong...

I would place a radiant barrier between this and the rafters, but yeah, this should be fine, but it might look funny installed inside like that. It looks to be similar to T111...

Ever considered pine bead board (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ply-Bead-11-32-in-x-1-6-in-Classic-Plybead-Plywood-Panel-538281/100080170) instead? I think with stain / poly a bead board ceiling would be gorgeous... Probably more $$ than you want to spend though...

[Lee Reep]

Lee, I'm treating it like a cathedral ceiling so it's following the roofline, not the bottom of the rafters . As you said it would be a shame to close off all that open space.

Cliff

Well I sure missed that. Sure enough, you mentioned that right there in your post! Sounds nice. Hope you post some pics when you get it completed. I can only dream of that much space. :)

[Cliff Polubinsky]

After thinking about it some more I believe I'll pass on this and go back to the idea of using 7/16" OSB. I was hoping to be able to possibly skip painting, but it seems that this would be cutting too many corners to save a bit of labor. The strength of OSB vs composite is too much of an advantage to pass up. Also after thinking about what it would take to close off the ceiling I'll get someone in to drywall it. I don't need the dent resistance up there and this way I won't kill myself trying to get it done.

Thanks for all your thoughts. They helped a lot.

Cliff

[Art Mann]

Well, I reckon i am the only one so far who has actually used that product on an interior wall. I used it to replace the OSB that was poorly hung in an 8 X 12 utility room just behind my garage. The core material is similar to masonite and is more substantial than OSB or drywall of the same thickness. I thought the material was easy to work with. It is nicely primed and accepts paint readily but if you want to leave it unpainted, i think it would look just fine. I think it is quite attractive in that setting (or in a shop). I would definitely consider using it in a new shop when i build one. I would never use OSB as a wall covering again.

[Matt Meiser]

Take a look at white interior steel liner panel for pole barns. I used that on my ceiling as well as wall lining in the storage part of my shop. For walls it can get beat up, especially if you need to hang stuff and move it over time, but it was an easy 1-step ceiling.

[Cliff Polubinsky]

Art,

How was it on screw holding? The consensus seemed to be that since it was composite it wouldn't be as good as OSB so you couldn't mount anything anywhere, but that seemed to be coming from people who hadn't used the material. Can you offer any experience for that area? And what thickness was your siding? Seems there is only 3/8 around here.

Cliff

[Cliff Polubinsky]

Hope you post some pics when you get it completed. I can only dream of that much space. :)Lee,I've been dreaming of this much space for years. Have been working in a 1 car shop forever and finally having the space to actually move around the machines will be nice. This space was the reason we bought the house and this will be my last shop 'cause I'm not moving again. They'll carry me out.Cliff

[Art Mann]

Art,

How was it on screw holding? The consensus seemed to be that since it was composite it wouldn't be as good as OSB so you couldn't mount anything anywhere, but that seemed to be coming from people who hadn't used the material. Can you offer any experience for that area? And what thickness was your siding? Seems there is only 3/8 around here.

Cliff

I have walls in my garage that are OSB and as I mentioned, I have replaced some of them with the material you were considering. Eventually, I will replace all of it. The Masonite siding is more dense than the OSB and holds screws and nails as well or better than OSB of the same thickness. My problem with the OSB (other than it being ugly) is that it has swollen and warped over time so that the walls look bowed in places. The joints are uneven due to inconsistent thickness. Thin slivers are starting to peel and separate. It hasn't always been that way. I have walls in my shop that were covered with Masonite exterior siding over 10 years ago and they have shown no such tendencies, even though the environment out there is considerably more harsh.

Masonite type siding got a bad reputation many years ago when certain brands didn't hold up to the weather. They have improved the material since then, but I would still think twice before I would use it outside. For interior walls, it looks quite nice, in my opinion, even if it is left unpainted as it is in my shop. I definitely can't say the same for the OSB.

[Cliff Polubinsky]

Art,

Is the material you're using 3/8" or 7/16"?

Cliff

[Tom Clark FL]

In most shops the walls will have so much stuff hanging on them that they don't show up that much anyway. Paint them a light color to keep the area nice and bright. A small shop can be painted with rollers in just an hour or two. I used two coats of white Kilz primer on my 7/16 OSB walls. Looks great to me and shop is nice and bright so you don't feel like you are working in a dungeon.

[Art Mann]

Art,

Is the material you're using 3/8" or 7/16"?

Cliff

I just went out and measured a scrap with my calipers and it is 7/16" material. I noticed on the Home Depot website they list the "Assembled Depth" as being 3/8". They also list the "Thickness" as 7/16". I don't see how you can install a sheet on a wall and it suddenly shrink by 1/16". The 3/8" is a typo.

[Cliff Polubinsky]

Art,
Possibly the thicker dimension is the thickness of the panel and the thinner the thickness of the groove?

Cliff

[Jeff Erbele]

When it comes to all things shop I don't give an rip about looks.

And that is fine, to each his own, what works for you is perfect. But that would not work for me. Mine is soon to be the best hobby-shop that fits within the maximum attached garage space that the city would allow us to build.

For me, appearance is one of my top criteria following functionality and universal work space.
Its my hobby shop and I want it to work very well and look great.

[Kevin Andrist]

Cliff,

I know you're leaning, or have leaned, toward OSB, but I still think the composite/masonite siding material is a better path. As I mentioned elsewhere, it's the direction I'm heading. It'll hold screws for hanging lighter things and for heavier pieces french cleats (naturally, mounted into studs) are a flexible and strong system. The flexibility is nice as needs and organization changes. Once the weather gets a bit better I'm going to pick up a sheet of the siding and run a few tests on it with respect to hanging things, but I think it'll be fine. I have a 24x30x12 garage-shop that I'll finish out this year.

[Matt Krusen]

Anyone have thoughts on using Hardi board/siding? I've seen that done a couple times.

[Cliff Polubinsky]

Kevin,

After hearing from Art who has actually used the material, I'm not leaning as strongly as before. I'll stop by Home Depot and take a closer look.

Cliff

[Kevin Andrist]

Cliff..you may want to look at this stuff too, I saw some stuff at Lowes..I think this is it:

SmartSide 47-7/8-in x 95-7/8-in Light Brown Solid Soffit

Item #: 139413 | Model #: 27875

Nice color, smooth-sealed surface(easy to keep dust off of), exterior grade, shiplap edge. Could be painted easily, but on an interior application I imagine the finish on it would be perfectly fine. Please post back what you find..etc..

..or this might have been what I saw..again, Lowes..it's hard to tell from the web pics..

SmartSide 4-ft 9/16-in x 7-ft 11-7/8-in Structural 1 Aspen Treated Wood Siding

Item #: 55897 | Model #: 27874

[Bill Sutherland]

I used FRP 4x8 panels over chip board to do all my walls in my 3.5 car garage. It worked great. You just about can't dent/hurt this stuff and there's no painting required. If you ever want to clean it just hose it down. I've nailed to it and it holds like a gorilla. I had some things I changed out and simply put a little putty in the holes and wiped it down and now you can't see where they were. Many commercial kitchens/barns/bathrooms use this because it's finished once it's up and is so easy to clean and tough.

[Cliff Polubinsky]

Kevin,

Thanks for the suggestions. I saw the soffit material but it has to be ordered at my local Lowses and it's a 45 panel minimum. The Aspen material is around 5/16 thick. I'd like something more around the 3/8 to 7/16 area.

Cliff

[Deb Malloy]

Tom,
That ceiling material looks different. What did you use ?

[Kevin Andrist]

hmm..seems to me the stuff I looked at (it's was about 2 months ago) was thicker than 5/16. I have a Lowes, Menards, & Home Depot all within a half mile of each other...I'll hit the trifecta this weekend and take a look.

[Tom Clark FL]

Tom,
That ceiling material looks different. What did you use ?

Deb, the ceiling is what the contractor put in. It is just a steel building with R-19 insulation. I put in the studs to divide into 3 rooms, OSB siding, with 2" white styrofoam behind the studs.

[Joe A Faulkner]

I take it the building is framed with 2x4 walls? Definitely, living in Indiana, you want to insulate well. Personally, I'd go with sheet rock, and then use french cleats for hanging cabinets and shelves. Many hate and avoid sheet rock in the shop due to its tendency to lose ties with hard objects. For a project this small, I was okay with hanging and finishing the rock, and can repair easily enough if or when that is needed. I like the finished look of dry wall. I have a similar building. From the floor to the peak was 13' plus. I did not want to heat all of that. I ran 14' collars across the rafters and effectively lowered the ceiling to 10' over the middle 14' of the shop. Then later came back and put in sky lights on the north side, and retro-fitted the 10' ceiling to only cover half the shop. If your walls are framed 24" on center rather than 16", you might go with 9/16 in OSB.

Technically, as an out building, I don't think you are supposed to run romex in your walls. Instead you should run conduit with THHN wire. Good luck. Lots to decide.

[Tom M King]

I've used that siding as interior walls a number of times. The finish on it is actually pretty nice for taking paint with no further work. I have it in our dog room, tackroom in the barn, and in closets. I just put it on the walls in a clients porch, that is otherwise mostly windows.

I nail it up with 6d sinkers. Hit the nail heads with a slash of oil based primer, and spray the walls with Latex. The cost is offset a lot by the lack of extra labor in finishing. The sinkers don't show that much with the texture on the walls anyway. You have to look for the nail heads. The sinkers are actually less visible than nailing it up with nailgun finish nails. Nailgun nails leave a crater from the impact, and show more than the head of the sinker.

I have also used another variation on it that is smooth faced with V-joints. I have it in my anti-sheetrock room with MDF coffered ceiling, and the smooth stuff on the wall. I had to buy a whole bundle of it though just to get it, and still have a little over half the bundle. I did shoot finish nails into it, but saturated the craters with yellow wood glue to make them hard enough to sand with a RO sander-it came out fine, and was some less work than sheetrock.

The next shop I build will have the textured siding on the walls. Put a small spacer under the sheet when you start nailing it at the top, and pull the spacer out after the first, top nail is in, to eliminate any possibility of buckling.

I've used beaded board, with 6" wide MDF battens around the perimeter, and across the seams, with crown molding on the walls sided with that siding, and it looks pretty nice. That siding has a better finish, and requires less fiddling than the beaded board. The beaded board plywood, unless you get the expensive stuff on special order, requires a lot of prep compared to the siding. Pick through the stack to get flawless pieces, and there is absolutely no other prep needed on the siding other than cutting it, nailing it up, and painting it.

Here's a link to a picture of it in our dog room: http://www.starbornhavanese.com/images/DSCN5733.JPG

Sorry I missed this thread earlier. I'll pick this stuff every time over sheetrock or OSB. We have some 8x16 closets in our house that I did just like the dog room, and everyone who has seen them, including a couple of architects, has liked them. I wouldn't hang much weight on it alone, but I wouldn't on sheetrock or OSB either.

[Andy Pratt]

I used 3/4 osb and haven't regretted it. Studs are 24" on center so this lets me hang stuff up easily wherever I want and man has that come in handy. There's hardly an inch of unused wall space in my shop. If I had done something less substantial I wouldn't have been able to fit everything in as effectively or easily. I am wary of that composite material. My recommendation is to just use 5/8" or thicker osb or 1/2" or thicker plywood.