Reducing Set

[Glenn Samuels]

I recently picked up an old junker 26" rip saw to practice on. I needed to joint the teeth approximately 50% because it was a quite uneven. Then I went ahead and re-shaped the teeth. Now I measured the set. It varies from 20% to almost 50%. I use dry hardwood so I'd like to get them all to 20% (that's what I have read but I am open to suggestions). Do I use a ball pein hammer and lightly tap on an anvil?

[Richard Line]

The method I use, recommended by Wenzloft & Schwarz, is to squeeze them in a metal working vice that has smooth jaws or smooth jaw inserts. But the important part is to wrap some paper around the saw. A single wrap of newspaper results in about 0.003" of set, you can use a couple of layers or heavier paper if you want more set. For me, an non-expert sawer, a single layer of newspaper has worked well for dry wood (soft or hard).

[jim hedgpeth]

X2 paper trick.
On a large saw the couple wraps of newspaper works well most times.

After that if it "tracks" to one side a bit, I take a mid grit (600-1000, I think mine is 600) diamond stone and take 1-2 passes down the side its pulling to. Lay the saw on a flat surface where its fully supported, lay the stone flat on the teeth edge of the blade and run from handle to end. Very light pressure, just the weight of the stone, you dont want to take off much.

Be sure to only do 1-2 swipes and then test the cut, you can make it track the other way/ remove all the set real easy if you take too much off.

Jim

[Jim Matthews]

If you don't have a proper metal working vise, you can do it with a hammer.
http://www.daikudojo.org/ShopTalk/metate_article.htm

I use an old brake drum for normal set on my log cutting saws, or a piece of hardwood if I want more set.
http://www.daikudojo.org/ShopTalk/metate_article.htm

284258

As my vision fades, I find this impractical and imprecise. Your mileage may vary.


In practice, a simple hand held saw set is more accurate, faster and repeatable.
But the one with a magnifying window installed, if you can get it.

I use these, from TFWW...

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/prodimg/ms/big/MS-SAWSETXX_big.gif

[Pat Barry]

If you don't have a proper metal working vise, you can do it with a hammer.
http://www.daikudojo.org/ShopTalk/metate_article.htm

I use an old brake drum for normal set on my log cutting saws, or a piece of hardwood if I want more set.
http://www.daikudojo.org/ShopTalk/metate_article.htm

284258

As my vision fades, I find this impractical and imprecise. Your mileage may vary.


In practice, a simple hand held saw set is more accurate, faster and repeatable.
But the one with a magnifying window installed, if you can get it.

I use these, from TFWW...

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/prodimg/ms/big/MS-SAWSETXX_big.gif
Hi Jim, could you demo the method using the old brake drum?
I don't understand.
Thanks

[Winton Applegate]

Reducing Set

OH !
I am so disappointed. It thought this was going to be THEEE NEW weight loss program to end all weight loss programs.

Ha, ha,

Naw I would set up a support for the saw blade and using a steel flat end "drift" punch and a hammer to tap the teeth (you have pre marked) the "right" number of taps. Up to you to work that out.
Avoid touching the cutting edges with the punch.
If you will be touching the cutting edges then use a brass rod in stead of the drift punch.

Alternatively you could cut a slot in a piece of decent steel and use it as a leverage tool to bend the teeth straighter (toward the center plane of the saw).
It would be nice if you could set up your saw set to work on the teeth from the other side than it is designed to do. I have never tried that. Might be possible.

[Glenn Samuels]

I am a little perplexed about the use of a diamond stone. Wouldn't it just dull the back side of the teeth? I'm just wondering how it would push the teeth back towards a neutral position.

[Paul Saffold]

It does not push the teeth back. The stone removes a very slight amount of steel. Use a delicate touch. You are removing from the edge of the teeth not the front.
Hope that helps.

[Jim Koepke]

It would be nice if you could set up your saw set to work on the teeth from the other side than it is designed to do. I have never tried that. Might be possible.

This can have a tendency to snap teeth off. DAMHIKT!

jtk

[Glenn Samuels]

I watched the Wenzloft & Schwarz video using the paper method in a vise. Was he using the method for an initial set or to reduce the set? He shows the point of the teeth slightly protruding through the paper and wasn't sure if he started with excessive set which I have.


I do have these saw sets once I can minimize the set and start anew:

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=32956&cat=1,43072,43086&ap=1

Thanks

[Bill Rhodus]

Pat, the method Jim refers to, using a brake drum, relates to working on a log cutting saw. These saws are a much heavier plate thickness than a handsaw and a manual set, while available, is not always practical as it take a great deal of force to bend these teeth (wears out my hand). Jim must have a contour on the drum that allows the tooth to overhang the supporting spot and he taps it with a hammer to bend the teeth. I use a piece of heavy steel that has an angle machined on one side to bend my teeth to a uniform set as I don't want to rely on my ability to do this by eye.

[Sam Stephens]

to remove set, I clamp a hammer in the vise (anvil) and lightly tap the teeth w/ another hammer. Tap on one side, then the other. It won't completely remove the set, but reduces it significantly to the point where you'll need to re-set the teeth. to set the teeth, I use the small saw set from lee valley, typically on the highest setting, which on a DT saw, may still be too much. Seems like I tried the paper trick w/ a hammer (don't have a metal saw vise), but can't recall how it turned out.


I watched the Wenzloft & Schwarz video using the paper method in a vise. Was he using the method for an initial set or to reduce the set? He shows the point of the teeth slightly protruding through the paper and wasn't sure if he started with excessive set which I have.


I do have these saw sets once I can minimize the set and start anew:

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=32956&cat=1,43072,43086&ap=1

Thanks

[Richard Line]

I understand Wenzloft uses this method to both reduce set and to set to a know amount. Of course he knows what the set will be, because he has tried using that same type/weight of paper before. Yes, the tips of the teeth will pierce the paper, the paper then forms a soft stop to the squeeze from the vise.

I've used the same saw set as you have, but then finish with the vise squeeze to get to the controlled amount of set I'm after. I don't trust my ability to select the right number on the set.

[Glenn Samuels]

That has got me puzzled too. The larger saw set has numbers ranging from 4 to 12 (I am not home to check the exact numbers). Is it referring only to the TPI (PPI) or does it refer to how much set you wish to initiate?

[Sam Stephens]

That has got me puzzled too. The larger saw set has numbers ranging from 4 to 12 (I am not home to check the exact numbers). Is it referring only to the TPI (PPI) or does it refer to how much set you wish to initiate?

how much set w/ the larger number being the smaller set IIRC. if you watch the anvil as you rotate it will be obvious. it would seem logical that the number should correspond to tpi or ppi, but in practice, I'd have to disagree. consider it a very rough estimate and start w/ less set than you think as it's easier to add than remove imo.

[Daniel Sutton]

I used a hammer and anvil. I used very light blows, going down each side if the plate. I didn't lose any teeth and almost all of the set was removed.
The saw I was working on had a lot of tooth issues so I wasn't too scared to hit it. I made my hammer blows with half of the head on the teeth and half on the plate. It was a slightly rounded face hammer on a flat anvil face.

[Noah Wagener]

To me the Wenzloff method does not make sense the way he explains it. He says that paper does not compress so aren't you just thickening the vise jaws? I would thick you would want the paper on the plate but not the teeth to act as a stop for the vise. What i think actually happens with his method is that the teeth are brought flush to the plate but return to some medium position between flush and the over set you were trying to correct.

[Mike Allen1010]

I've had limited success w/ metal vice to reduce set. I've also tried clamping tooth line between flat steel bars, etc. My experience is will make the set consistent, but will still have significant spring back/set remaining.

IMHO best solution if restoring old saw which typically requires significant jointing, teeth re-profiling anyway, is to just sharpen through the exsisting set and then add back only what is appropriate ( 20% of thickest portion of plate-heal@tooth line- for hardwoods and 25% for SW is solid starting point). As your experience and degree of taper ground into the plate increase , less set is preferable.

Consistent, accurate set and tooth height are key for excellènt performance. Angles matter but execution of set and tooth height are what seperate a well tuned saw from one that has been "sharpened".

Should track layout line w/ no "steering" required. When you have it right really very fun and easy - just like well fettled hand plane- some tuning required.

All the best, Mike