Guys - I'm in a quandry

[Fred Voorhees]

I am about ready to build all new kitchen cabinets for my home....and I had planned to use drawer slides from Rockler...either Accuride or CenterLines...with either a soft close or self close features. The price is not scaring me away from these....it's the reviews on some of them that is giving me pause. From what I understand, there is very little tolerance when it comes to the width of the drawer and the opening of the face frames on the cabinets. Apparently you need a half inch on each side and from what I read...any deviation from the half inch means binding and rough operation of the drawers. I am sure that some of you must have gone through the installation of these particular slides in the past and I am asking for your views on the installation and how difficult/easy it was and if there was much tolerance in the widths of the drawers as opposed to the face frame openings for the drawers. My wife would be perfectly happy with the cheaper and quite honestly, much easier slides that use the rollers on each side of the face frame and the single down the middle of the opening front to back track that guides the single nylon wheel mounted to the back of the drawer carcass. But I wanted to give her a dream kitchen with the fancy closing drawers and if at all possible, that is what I would like to do...but these review horror stories are causing me to rethink my plans. Any thoughts?

[Randy Henry]

I just finished our new kitchen, made everything myself, except the crown molding. About 50 raised panel doors, and 25 drawers (some are pullout shelves behind doors). I could have sub'd out the doors/drawers, but I had the wood, and spent all this money on a 5hp shaper, and a Leigh d.t. jig, and all the other machines to do it myself. With the money you will save doing it yourself, you can upgrade the slides to the Blum tandem, with Blumotion. They are easy to install, if you keep everything square. The new ones have 4 adjustment points that allow for a little tuning in case something is out of whack. I bought the rear jig from Blum, and wasted $50..once you cut the notch, set the slide on the bottom of the drawer, tap the prong lightly with a mallet to mark the hole, and drill a 1/4" hole, halfway through the back of the drawer. Then make a jig off that first one. The written instructions are over complicated. Just do a Youtube search on them, and there are several videos of how to install them.

[John TenEyck]

As much as I like Rockler's, they are not the economical choice for buying drawer slides. Blum is arguably the top of the heap, and you can buy them much cheaper on-line from other suppliers. PM if you want to know the cheapest source I've found. KV's soft close also are very nice. Both Blum's and KV's website is excellent, and both have very clear instructions on sizing the drawer box to the cabinet opening. It's really not very hard. You MUST build the drawer boxes to very closer tolerances, but if you're not up for that you probably shouldn't be making the cabinets either. Sorry if that comes across harsh; it's just a statement of fact.

Build the cabinets first, then size the drawer boxes based on the actual measurements of the openings. You'll be fine - and your wife will love those smooth, soft closing drawers.

John

[Matt Meiser]

Try Woodworker's Hardware or A&H Turf for much better pricing on slide.

I have absolutely no regrets buying Blum Tandem's in our kitchen. Blum 3/4 extensions in my parents' kitchen are a different story.

[Fred Voorhees]

As much as I like Rockler's, they are not the economical choice for buying drawer slides. Blum is arguably the top of the heap, and you can buy them much cheaper on-line from other suppliers. PM if you want to know the cheapest source I've found. KV's soft close also are very nice. Both Blum's and KV's website is excellent, and both have very clear instructions on sizing the drawer box to the cabinet opening. It's really not very hard. You MUST build the drawer boxes to very closer tolerances, but if you're not up for that you probably shouldn't be making the cabinets either. Sorry if that comes across harsh; it's just a statement of fact.

Build the cabinets first, then size the drawer boxes based on the actual measurements of the openings. You'll be fine - and your wife will love those smooth, soft closing drawers.

John

John.....no harsh feelings here. In fact...I was just thinking...I intend on using my Leigh dovetail jig for making half blind dovetails at the front of the drawer carcass and honestly...I usually leave like a sixteenth of an inch or less more than the depth of the dovetail so if I factor that into the equation...and make the front of the box that much oversized, by the time I sand the thing down smooth...it should not be much of a problem to hit my marks.

[Bill McNiel]

Fred,
I fully reccomend the Hettich Quadro soft closing undermount drawer slides. A few years ago I did considerable research into "fancy" drawer slides and found an article in FWW May/June 2008 where they performed a rather comprehensive comparison and review. The article includes straightforward info on how to build the cabinet and drawers for a variety of styles (flush, overlay etc.). The Hettich slides are virtually equal to Blum et all at about half the cost. I have used them on several commissions with favorable results. If you want to PM me I will send you the article (I'm just not computer savy enough to include it here.

BTW- Definately build the cabinets first and then the drawers. Please feel free to contact me with any questions.

[Loren Woirhaye]

You just need to get your stops dialed in. There's a little play and room for variation with the slides, like 1/32" each. Decide if you're going to make your drawers and fit your cases to them or vise versa. That way you're not flying blind with a cutlist for the whole job, taking a gamble that the drawers will fit. If you're going to dovetail the drawers, I recommend making them first. I don't think dovetailing is needed with modern ball bearing slides personally. I usually rabbet, glue and nail.

[john lawson]

X 2 on the Blumotion

[Bill McNiel]

fred - did you get the email with the article?

[Yonak Hawkins]

Fred, I have installed lots of Accuride slides. It takes a little time but it's not too difficult. There's not a lot of leeway in the 1/2", like Loren says, maybe 1/32" (it's best if you're spot on), but I make my drawers a little bit extra wide and cut a dado in the sides for the slides. That, not only, adds a little extra width for the drawers but gives an additional location for depth control. My drawer sides are 19/32" thick with a 5/16" deep dado and 3/16" gap between the drawer side and the opening.

[Jery Madigan]

The Blumotion slides folks are talking about are the 563H model.

[Peter Quinn]

Blum tandem undermounts with blumotion....very forgiving, smooth reliable performance, tolerances not required quite as tight as with accurides. I've installed a few accurides.......case is a little out of square.....very little, or drawers aren't perfect, here comes the binding, out comes the shims, thus starts the pain. Grass and KV are two others to look at but blum has been used in every shop I've been, so that's my go to.

[Rick Potter]

I am using KV 8450's, soft close, in my new kitchen. No experience with Blum tandems. If you want easy, and the wife is ok with 3/4 opening, the Blum white epoxy coated slides that fit on the sides are really easy to install. Used them in my last kitchen, 15 years and counting. Would have saved a bundle and used them again, but she wanted full extension this time.

Rick Potter

[Mike Hollingsworth]

All methods of good drawer construction require tight tolerances.

[Mike Goetzke]

Fred,
I fully reccomend the Hettich Quadro soft closing undermount drawer slides. A few years ago I did considerable research into "fancy" drawer slides and found an article in FWW May/June 2008 where they performed a rather comprehensive comparison and review. The article includes straightforward info on how to build the cabinet and drawers for a variety of styles (flush, overlay etc.). The Hettich slides are virtually equal to Blum et all at about half the cost. I have used them on several commissions with favorable results. If you want to PM me I will send you the article (I'm just not computer savy enough to include it here.

BTW- Definately build the cabinets first and then the drawers. Please feel free to contact me with any questions.

I did our kitchen myself too and ended up with the Hettich soft close. I purchased them at CSH. I also purchased some long slides for the trash and two big bins in the island from Blum that weren't available fro Hettich but they all perform well. We also installed Blum soft close euro hinges on all the cabinet doors too. I was going to go cheap on the hardware but glad I didn't. (Another shocker will be the price of decent pulls & knobs). Here is a link to our kitchen ( http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?196442-Pictures-of-Our-completed-Kitchen&highlight= ).


Mike

[John TenEyck]

John.....no harsh feelings here. In fact...I was just thinking...I intend on using my Leigh dovetail jig for making half blind dovetails at the front of the drawer carcass and honestly...I usually leave like a sixteenth of an inch or less more than the depth of the dovetail so if I factor that into the equation...and make the front of the box that much oversized, by the time I sand the thing down smooth...it should not be much of a problem to hit my marks.

Fred, you'll find when you study the Blum or other's literature, that it's the inside drawer dimensions that are critical. The outside width, in particular, is less important. The same slides work for drawer stock that is 1/2" and 5/8" thick. The inside dimensions for both, however, must be the same.

John

[Matt Meiser]

I've never read on the undermounts but the side mounts I've used usually list a tolerance, something like +0 and -1/32 on the width. You can always shim between the box and slide to. Larry Edgerton posted a tip on some auto body shims that he uses for that. If you end up too big, the only option is to remove stock from the drawer sides--not good if you don't discover until after finishing. I once built some 1/8 oversize and ended up saving them by running a 1/16 dado on the sides where the slides were . Didnt look bad for shop drawers, but definitely a hack for a kitchen.

[Joe Samorodin]

Blum Movento! more adjustment great for euro look. Note I caved and now use the 5 mil screwsfor attaching the slides to the carcass

[Mike Henderson]

Those Accuride side mount self-close are a pain to work with. I'm a pretty careful worker but I never could get them to work correctly. Go with the Blumotion undermount.

Mike

[Chris Parks]

I have built lots of drawers for the shop and my method is to build the cabinet, mount the slides and then build the drawers in the space left between the slides. That way material dimension, dodgy measuring etc is largely overcome. I use very accurately cut spacer blocks to mount the slides starting from the bottom and as everyone says accuracy is the key. I have done it all ways and even built some drawers too wide so they went through the saw to cut them down as luckily they were very shallow, brain fade was the culprit there. Building the drawers last means you can test the dimension on the first one, I then cut all the bases, sides etc from one setting on the saw for each component after the first one is made and proven. To cut the spacer blocks the exact same I cut a wide board the dimension I want then rip it into four narrow parts.

[Jim Andrew]

I found the least expensive place to buy cabinet hardware is the company that sells the sheet goods and lumber. In my case it is Liberty Hardwoods of KC. They deliver all over, if you order your sheet goods and or lumber, just count the numbers of the hardware and order at the same time. As for tolerance, if you build your drawers a little tight, and use the side mount roller guides, you can put the drawer through your table saw, with the blade just high enough to cover the area the guide mounts, and set your fence to the proper measurement, and just remove a little off the side of the drawer. Or if it is too loose by a tiny bit, consider using a washer between the guide and the face frame. Personally, I don't care much for the accuride guides, they seem kind of flimsy when the drawer is pulled out. And hard to install. The side mount guides are particularly easy, and have a long life.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I am using KV 8450's, soft close, in my new kitchen. No experience with Blum tandems. If you want easy, and the wife is ok with 3/4 opening, the Blum white epoxy coated slides that fit on the sides are really easy to install. Used them in my last kitchen, 15 years and counting. Would have saved a bundle and used them again, but she wanted full extension this time.

Rick Potter

Our kitchen has those. They are cheap cabinets, but, I wouldn't recommend those slides (edited to add, the blum epoxy coated two piece slides, not the other ones mentioned). One night the silverware drawer had one of the wheels break out of the slide, causing it to drop the back of the drawer, which levered the front up against the bottom of the countertop. Luckily it happened to me, not one of the little girls, it only pinched my thumb hard enough to cut through the nail. Talk about a bloody mess. One of my daughters would have lost their finger.

The drawer now has a stretcher under it, so it can't fall down, and a new set of cabinets is on the list. Part of the problem was the sloppy tolerances of the drawer, it should have been 1/4" wider, and the slide probably wouldn't have worn out like that.

Moral of the story, drawers deserve to be built right, you don't want to be the dimwit who hurt someone. I like the Blum Tandems, but I personally think that years down the road, they have a better chance of catastrophic failure then a side mount. No big deal if the case is built to support the drawer if it does.

[Ole Anderson]

+1 for the Blumotion 563 tandem undermounts with the adjustable locking device. Plenty of adjustability after installation. But that doesn't mean you can be sloppy with the drawer construction though. I believe you are limited to 5/8" side drawer thickness, but that is fairly standard. Many places will have them at almost half the cost of Rockler including my local cabinet retail supplier. Look around. I bought the Blum jig, but you can get it done without it.

[guy knight]

Those Accuride side mount self-close are a pain to work with. I'm a pretty careful worker but I never could get them to work correctly. Go with the Blumotion undermount.

Mike


finished up a job using these did 49 drawers 30 didnt work right
took them back to my supplier and she told me she gets more of these back for that issuereplaced with repon soft close side mounts not a single problem

[Mark Blatter]

Amen Mike. I have them in several dressers and other pieces of furniture and as I am able, I will be removing them and replacing them with other glides. Even the standard Accuride glides, with the self closing feature are better.

[Erik Christensen]

keep in mind with the blum under-mount slides there are only 2 dimensions you need to worry about and only one of them needs to be precise. the length of the drawer must allow the slide to engage the front locking device with a small bit of clearance at the rear - if the drawer is an 1/8" or so short - no big deal as long as the rear prong engages in the back hole. the width is critical but it is the INTERIOR width that matters. You buy slides for either 1/2"&5/8" sides or 3/4" sides and after your case is built you measure the actual interior width. The blum manual then gives you the interior adjustment that will spec the inside drawer width. With half blind dovetails is it simple to build to an exact width - add twice the side thickness to the value you got for interior width and that is the length of your front/backs. The only time i ever had a problem with fitting blum undermount slides is when I bought 1/2" slides by mistake and tried to install a 3/4" drawer - that did not go well but other than that I have used many dozen without problems.