Plow plane (here I go again..)

[steven c newman]

Road Trip today. Picked up a plow plane, for about $13.50+ sales tax. Missing the cutter. Settings are controled by wedges. Seems to have been from "Cinc. OH." Unable to read the rest of the name, though. 284127looks like the cutter might be a 1/4" or smaller284128284129Someone had lathered on the varnish. Might ake awhile to clean things up/off. Question being: Good source for a cutter? I can make a new wedge for it. Intention is to set this up for 3/4" thick stock, and set it there. Maybe a 1/4" groover? Iron skate will take a bit of clean-up....:rolleyes:

[Jim Koepke]

How wide is the wedge mortise?

This is a bit different than most I have seen.

Here is a post with an image of the kind of blades most plow planes from the 18th & 19th century used:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?210016-Plow-plane-inquiry&p=2178853#post2178853

I think most of the plow planes could handle blades up to 1/2 or 5/8". It depends on how wide the mortise is for the wedge.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Mortise is 1/4" wide, all the way through. may have been a single purpose plow? Fine with me, saves my 1/4" router bits....

[Ron D Davis]

Sounds like a good deal to me, I can not for the life of me find tools locally. Good Luck with the new tool.

[Tom M King]

Irons insert from the bottom up, so the tops will fit in the mortise, and the bottom can be wider. You can always find irons individually, or in sets, on ebay.

[lowell holmes]

Take it from someone that has tried to marry a set of Ebay irons to an old wooden plow plane.

It is difficult if not nearly impossible to do successfully. The skate and the ramp in the body must be absolutely aligned.

The wedge shape of the irons must also be compatible with the skate and the ramp. The v groove in the underside of the iron must also be compatible with all of the above. Sometimes the v groove is not parallel with the the surface on the iron.

It can be done (I guess), but (in my experience) it is not straight forward.

[steven c newman]

I guess I could make an iron for this. Finally starting to see a name of sorts on the end. "G_ _ ROSEBOOM" of CINC.O

Ring a bell?

Got the fence off (FINALLY) to find that wedges are shaped a bit.....different. They start narrow back at the head of the wedge, then taper wider? To loosen, one would have to hit the head and drive the wedge in? To tighten, just hit the other end.

Tearing it down, have a LOT of varnish to remove. Ain't patina, it is varnish to "preserve" it. LOTS of it. Everywhere!

Will try to widen the screw slots a bit, and clean them out. Then try to get the skate off. Then I can check to see just how pitted it is.

Have an old chisel that might be long enough. Were these bevel up, or bevel down? What angle does the edge need to be? I can see where the "V"groove is to go, as the rear skate has a > on the end.

This is going to be fun....

[Jim Koepke]

Got the fence off (FINALLY) to find that wedges are shaped a bit.....different. They start narrow back at the head of the wedge, then taper wider? To loosen, one would have to hit the head and drive the wedge in? To tighten, just hit the other end.

This is common with old plow planes. This keeps the wedges from getting lost or falling out when loose.

Most likely a bevel down plane. With a bevel up, it would impact the edge with the "V" slot.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Try again. Found a H-F 1/4" chisel. Got the plastic handle off and ground the rest to match the chisel. Seems to fit, just need the dremel to cut the v groove on the backside284161284162284163Also had to take my Wards #78 and clean up the bed a bit. Highly worn in front of the iron. Got it flat and straight. 284164Now< jus cut a v groove in the back of the iron, and make a new edge for it. Skate will be next, a VERY RUSTY skate, at that284165Maybe those screws will come out???

[Pat Barry]

... Finally starting to see a name of sorts on the end. "G_ _ ROSEBOOM" of CINC.O

Ring a bell?

I think that is likely Gus Roseboom. I believe Gus was a well known west Pennsylvania Amish tool maker. I think I recall his full name was Gustavus. Turn of the century thru early depression era.

[steven c newman]

Thank you, Pat!

[David Weaver]

For cincinnati, the book American Wood Planes has G&WH Roseboom as Garrett and William Roseboom around 1860. There is a G. Roseboom (just garrett), but it looks like your mark has more characters than that.

I can't tell how wide the wedge is, but you probably won't find a standard plow iron that fits it. I'd study the level of curvature (or lack of) and probably cut and file one out of O1 stock to match what's needed, but if you dont' have O1 stock, you can try the chisel instead but the plane deserves a decent iron matched to it and the ability to file or chisels the skate groove appropriately.

[Joe Bailey]

I personally would advise against trying to take that skate off.

[steven c newman]

Reason being??

[Derek Cohen]

This is common with old plow planes. This keeps the wedges from getting lost or falling out when loose...
jtk

One could glue the wedge in - that would also prevent it coming loose and getting lost. :)

Interesting that the mortice is 1/4" wide. Typically, this is 5/8" for all the blades, with the rear remaining 5/8" and the blade section narrowing progressively from 5/8" down to 1/8".

If you are serious about a plough plane, look for a traditional design that uses traditional blades. Save this one for the mantle. And glue the wedge in before you lose it! :)

Regards from Perth

Derek

[David Weaver]

Reason being??

If there's tension in the screws holding it, it may not go back on easily the same way it came off. I'd agree with joe, nothing is really gained by taking it off.

[Jim Koepke]

Sometimes the only way to learn why not to do something everyone tells you not to do is to do it.

Those who never make mistakes likely don't make much else either.

jtk

[Joe Bailey]

Sometimes the only way to learn why not to do something everyone tells you not to do is to do it.

Those who never make mistakes likely don't make much else either.

jtk

Sorry Jim, I know you mean well, but that is a sadly misguided post.
It would make sense if we were telling him not to pursue his dreams or something, but the point is that he may well snap those screws off, while performing an operation that is not even necessary.

Moreover, you can't seriously imagine that the point is that I (we) don't make mistakes, can you?
It is precisely because of past mistakes, that these hard-won lessons can be shared.

[Jim Koepke]

Joe,

I am not trying to diminish anything you have said.

The only way I learned to remove snapped off screws was to snap a few off.

He may also remove them with no trouble and learn something or nothing for the effort.

He could leave it as is and dress the skate while held in the wood.

He could take it apart, clean and treat the wood to bring it back to a nice example of an old plow plane.

In the bigger scheme of things does it really matter what is done to have a few hours fun with a "road trip" find?

I just hope he takes and shares pictures.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Road Trip finds are usually put to work in the shop, or out they go. Have no need for shelf-sitters in the house, nor any room for those that are being used.

Yes Jim, I will take a few more as I go along. Right now, I'm in the middle of a three day work weekend, with 12 hour shifts. Not much time to do anything more than sleep and eat. Maybe drop by here before the drive to work.

So far, there is not one crack of any kind showing on the wood body. Looks almost like QSWO??? Lots of ray flecks showing. There are two cracks on the fence, where the rods join it. Screws there have split the brackets on the rods. Simple fix. Screw heads there were heavy with crusted on VARNISH. Have to dig them out...

[Don McConnell]

Steven et al,

The photos aren't clear enough to tell much about the wood used in this plane, though I'd be surprised if it is anything but beech. Nineteenth century U. S. plane makers did occasionally use other timbers for higher priced specialty planes, but beech was nearly universally used in that era.

Now to another topic, and that is regarding what type of plane this is. It would have been used to plane grooves in the same fashion as a plough plane, but is actually one-half of a pair of match planes. The other half of the pair would have created a tongue to match the width of groove your plane would produce. Most match planes for use on materials an inch or less in thickness had fixed fences so that the tongue and groove automatically match up. Some of these came with integral closed totes.

Some match planes for working "plank" (1 1/4" to 1 1/2" thickness material) also came with fixed fences. But, they sometimes came with movable fences similar to those on moving fillister planes, while others came with slide (wedged) arms or screw arms. These typically came with open totes mortised into the top of the plane body/stock. Thus, your plane would fall into the category of a match (grooving) plane for working plank with slide arms. Unlike plough planes which could take irons with bits of various widths, as already discussed, match grooving planes came with a single iron of a width to match the tongue which the corresponding tongue plane would produce.

This may seem to be largely a matter of semantics, but I hope it is of some interest to be aware of how 19th century plane makers would have understood this plane. They typically listed all of their match planes, including ones like yours, completely separate from their (grooving/panel) plough/plow planes.

Don McConnell
Eureka Springs, AR

[David Weaver]

Thanks for the clarification, Don. I thought it might be something for sash work, but couldn't make sense in my head why the arms would be that long if it was.

[steven c newman]

Have taken a few items apart. Not the skate, looks like it will just be cleaned up as is. Fence will need a bit of work, though284313 "Brackets " have split. Those screws are made without points. 284315These are just added on brackets, maybe spread some glue and clamp them back together? Or, make two need ones? Did get those screws out.

As for the iron I made for this284316just an old chisel. that thing above it is what is left of the old wedge284317Got more angles than a Con Man. 284318A start at cleaning off the skate. Those screws have been in way too long, might as well leave them be. 284319As for these two......Hmmm. Glue make up? Or, make new?

One more question; when did they start to put points on wood screws??? These never had any..

[steven c newman]

Will try to re-glue the blocks on the rods. Need a patern of sorts, to make a new wedge for the iron. Mainly how the top of it might have looked. Not sure if the ends of the fence wedges would do.

Would QSWO do for wedge stock? happen to have some 1/2" stuff from an old barn rafter.

Varnish is quite thick and very bumpy. Almost like it was just slapped on. There are runs, and bubbles everywhere. may have to go back to the old wood, and add a better finish.

Once that skate is cleaned off, how to keep it that way?

Screws from the fence are a bit worn down, maybe replace them? Or, just reuse them?

BTW: The horn on the tote is missing a bit, replace just the missing chunk? Or just use it as is?

[David Weaver]

Paste wax on the skate. So little of it touches anything that it'll be years before it rusts again. QSWO may work for the wedge, if it doesn't, worst you have to do is locate something better and make another one. You can also dig up an old junk beech plane at one of the shops near you - one that would be $5 or $10 and saw it up for wedge stock for the various planes you might find in the future.

Use the original screws. Replacements will look bad. Replace the horn. Cut it off flat, glue a block of something acceptable onto it, and cope out the horn shape and shape it with files if you don't have any fine rasps. It's little enough work that it doesn't take that long even with some old metal files. You need the horn.

Can't say much about someone's varnish effort, it happens. If you take it off, the wood will be bright and clean underneath and you'll need to do the whole plane.

[steven c newman]

Wood will be redone, finish wise. Not really going to be something for the mantlepiece, anyway. The one rod braket isn't too bad, easy repair. The other one is a lot worse off. Split is very bad, and the bracket itself is coming loose from the rod. Thinking of making all new ones. Iron has been sharpened up, will do the slot later today. Just needs to be a shallow "V" groove.

Have a pattern of sorts for the iron's wedge. Have a bit of good hardwood, might even be Hickory.... Will try the QSWO first, though...

Should be a fun day, too nasty to go out into the winter storm......

[steven c newman]

Main wedge is now completed284485out of QSWO. Cleaned the sides of the body a bit. Got to working on a replacement rod 284486all one piece, clear Black Walnut. 284487here is the new rod, and the old one. Too many cracks to re-glue. The other rod is in a clamp right now. Added glue to the single crack, inserted the screw, and clamped things up. Wedges for the rods have been cleaned up.284488all and all, a very busy day down in the Dungeon Shop284489Somewhere, there is a bench under all that stuff.....

[steven c newman]

Only re-built one of the arms, the other was a smallish crack that I glued up. Well, since all the working parts are now ...working, maybe a test drive to see if this old plane does work284839seems to start well enough284840Curly things coming out the side284841Lots of curly things a-flying, too. 284842Remember, this was only a piece of kindling-like wood? For less than $14?? Get the rest of that ugly, THICK varnish off, and put a decent finish on it. Might just work out as a groove-cutter, instead of the corded routah that breaks bits...

[Joe Bailey]

While not totally applicable here, many of these comprehensive rebuilds put me in mind of the "Ship of Theseus paradox."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

Sometimes it is told as the story of George Washington's axe.

[steven c newman]

Lets see. I've replaced a wedge ( they get lost or broke all the time) the cutter ( same things happen to it) and one rod. I left the rod as a walnut, rather thanhide it as a beechwood. That way, nobody can say it was original to this very old plane. Same with the wedge, it is in QSWO, rather than the beechwood. The old finish appears to have been long gone, replaced by a seller with thick, ugly, ill applied varnish. All the other metal parts are still there.


It seems I do have a hammer like that... ten handles, and three heads later, it is still driving nails....

Plane is to be a user, not some collector's mantle piece trophy. Seems to work better than my corded router does. That was the biggest reason i went out looking for a plough plane, anyway.

Ps: the screws for the skate were never turned by me. Left the skate in place, too.