Looking at sliding table saw and setting up shop for the first time

[Patrick Anderson Chicago]

I am in the process of setting up my first workshop right now and need some input on what slider I should get.

First off, a little about what I do, I build speaker cabinets, cutting boards, kitchen cabs, built ins and other projects for my house and my family. I don't build things to sell nor do I build things just to build them for the fun of it, I don't try to find things to build to stay busy, or as a hobby not that I don't enjoy it, there is just a lot of life going on right now and I don't need something to take up freetime for the fun of it. However, because my wife and I enjoy it, we would like to invest in buying the proper shop equipment. We are the sort to try to find the best solution out there, buy it once, and use it for a lifetime.

That being said, I do work a fair bit with sheet goods for the cabinets and smaller hardwoods for the cutting boards, I need a good way to break them down and get extremely precise cuts. The speaker cabs and cutting boards in particular require things to be about as accurate as possible, so my thought was to look into a sliding table saw for this.

Initially, I was looking for a standard 3hp cabinet saw as that is what I had used for all my previous projects, the more I learned, the more I found out about better solutions for many of the things I want to accomplish. I have looked into festool but they do not have the repeatability I need, I am sure it is possible to do, but I would get overwhelmed with the tedium quickly and probably abandon the project or drag it on for a while. I want a setup that works quickly and efficiently and is fun to use without sinking me financially or taking up too much space in the garage.

We have a 3 stall garage with the last bay being open to use for the shop and the other two stalls open to move things around to on days when I need the space, so count on 10 x 20 of permanent space with another 20x22 of temp space, although we do use the walls around the other twin stalls for storage.

I am thinking I will need...

1. Table saw
2. Router Table
3. Thickness planer
4. Paint setup, either HVLP or LVLP - no booth though, I will do it outdoors when the weather is good
5. Jointer
6. Wide belt sander (would have to be a mini with open end, no room for a timesaver)
7. Band saw

That is my complete list right now in order of priority based on the projects in my horizon.

We don't have oodles of money to throw at this so we will be making one thought out purchase after another over the course of years. I have been watching for used items for close to a year now and am ready to get the table saw this spring. My thought is that I should get a slider as this will give me the precision I need for the speaker cabs and end grain cutting boards. I may also be able to delay the jointer purchase a bit longer with one since I hear they provide clean, accurate, glue ready cuts, which can be hard on a normal table saw.

Right now I am looking at either investing in a new Grizzly G0623x slider or a used european unit. I do not have 3 phase power of course, so I will have to purchase a static converter if the saw needs 3 phase. I also need to be able to make angled cuts with the TS, so many of the older euro units I have seen won't work.

Ideally, I would have enough stroke to break down an 8' long piece of plywood but I don't know if that is feasible with my budget or workspace. I am curious if a smaller slider may work better for me like the G0623x. I don't think I will need any finished cuts that are 8' long, probably just 5' or so, my thought was that I would be able to do rough long rips without using the sliding mechanism and then use it for the finished cuts. I also work more with 60x60 ply than I do 48x96, so that even negates the need for a long slide further.

I know the philosophy on here is to buy more than you need but honestly, a 3 horse cabinet saw seemed like the cats meow for my uses, then I learned about sawstop and my wife and I felt that we should try to invest in one due to the safety feature. This pushed our budget up to $3k, and once I got there I started seeing used sliders show up on the radar, after doing some research, I felt that it may be a safe alternative to the sawstop and suit me needs a bit better.

All this being said, I have had my eyes on the G0623x for a little while now as I see it is a far superior alternative to a sliding add on for the sawstop. The consensus it seems is that the add on sliders often need tweaking to keep an accurate cut and aren't very reliable. I have also heard that grizzly is suspect of not having as accurate as units as the euro models but it seems that the actual grizzly owners have been very happy with them.

I am not discounting that the european units may provide superior results, but I have no IDEA how to buy used one. Sure I can look at the websites that sell them but I have no knowledge about what to look for to judge its condition, nor do I know how to set them up and tweak them. A lot of the best deals I have found are for massive old ones with 16" blades, 10+hp motors with 3 phase and 126" long sliders that weight 2000lbs+ and arbors that don't tilt. If a smaller one comes along an 8' slider, 12" blade and single phase motor, it seems to go quickly for a pretty high price.

What are your thoughts?

[Peter Quinn]

I've used the Grizzly G0623x slider to build a kitchen in another guys shop. Its not a minimax or a felder, its certainly not a 10' SCMI 14" Slider, but its a decent little unit. You cannot reliably cross cut full sheets as delivered, the fence simply is not that robust, but with a simple wooden saw horse/outrigger to pick up the weight it is entirely feasible to cross cut full sheets on that machine. Another option would be to split the sheets with a track saw, then cut lengths, then square up parts on the smaller slider. I don't think the little grizzly has enough stroke to square up full sheets on the 8' edge, you are moving into much more expensive territory to get that ability. It sets up accurately, the rip fence is not my favorite ever, serviceable but finicky, no point in comparing it to a euro saw you have never seen, suffice it to say it lacks the finesse you get in the more expensive consumer/small shop euro units like felder or minimax. But its a nice upgrade from a bolt on attachment on a cabinet saw and highly capable of accurate work within its capacities. It really is unparalleled at its price point and size range. You might also look at Hammer to achieve a good value in that size range, they make some excellent equipment. I would suggest a combo with jointer/planer/slider in that size space, but that would be a large single purchase, perhaps the spider on year then a jointer/planer henceforth? A 10' slider is barely usable in a single bay of a standard car garage, they just require more space to fully utilize. I'd be inclined to go more compact than that even if the opportunity arose. The laguna TSS slider is a bit pricier but looks like a nice package to me, saw one, never worked on it.

Spraying out doors when the weather is good? Clearly you don't live in New England....that only leaves you 3 days a year...do you really want to be working on the three most perfect days of the year? In some states if you step outside to spray they will shoot you, or sue you, or both, or worse....I'll assume you don't live in one of those? Consider making a simple knock down booth, plans all over the net, not hard to do, look at water borne, spare yourself and neighbors the pain of solvents. You don't want to rely on the vagaries of wind and nature to carry over spray away from your work. Do you like pollen and nats in your fresh finish?

Yes, a 12" blade on an 8' stroke slider would be a great option....I doubt you are going to find a good one cheaper than the little grizzly, even used, no matter how long you wait. So save more or spend less.

[Loren Woirhaye]

I'd recommend looking at some slider for sale locally, even if the machine is bigger or pricier than you can afford. If the seller is a user you'll probably get some insight. I looked at a few used machines before I bought my used short stroke slider.

[Rod Sheridan]

A combination saw/shaper would certainly be my choice, I've owned one for 4 years and am very happy with it.

Have a look at Hammer or MiniMax saw/shapers.

I also have a 12" combination jointer/planer which is a great space effective solution, look at Hammer/MiniMax models for an idea as to what's available.

Used can also be a good choice...............Rod.

[Paul Incognito]

I just bought a slider. Got it off craigslist. Ask me in a couple of weeks if I'm ready to sell my cabinet saw.
That being said, depending on your location, some patience will get you some nice equipment for little money.
Also, I'd advise getting a rotary phase converter instead of the static one. With a reliable way to make 3 phase power, a lot more possibilities open up as far as used equipment.
One thing I don't see on your list is a dust collector. Best to put a good one in the budget.
Paul

[Rich Riddle]

If you do as Rod recommends, you could get the sliding table saw, the shaper, and the jointer all in one tool.

[Joe Jensen]

There are always used Euro sliders for sale. The Felder Owners Group has a classified section. Having tried Euro tools I won't go back to Asian imports. Old Euro in my opinion is vastly superior to new Asian.

A huge question is how much space do you have to work with. I have a 9ft slider which lets me cut a little over 8 ft on the slide which yields a perfect cut. very handy for sure but I have not yet needed precision on more than 4 ft. One could break down sheets with a track saw to under 4ft cuts and live with a smaller slider. If I had to give up my big slider I would go to a small slider before I went back to a cabinet saw.

[Loren Woirhaye]

One advantage of a short stroke slider is it can be moved around on a pallet jack without losing its accuracy. A full sized one with the big steel support thing for the sliding carriage, maybe not.

[Peter Kelly]

We have a 3 stall garage with the last bay being open to use for the shop and the other two stalls open to move things around to on days when I need the space, so count on 10 x 20 of permanent space with another 20x22 of temp space, although we do use the walls around the other twin stalls for storage. 10x20 would be pretty tight for a slider with a 60" stroke. If you can carve out a bit more "permanent" space, the MiniMax SC2 would be a good choice. http://minimax-usa.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_bs.tpl&product_id=220&category_id=3&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=35

[Bill McNiel]

I have run a one man show for years with my wife, or anyone who stopped by, to assist with heavy/ackward stuff. Had a slider but recently replaced it with a Festool Track Saw for breaking down sheet goods. Took a lot of stress out of my marriage / life and has been invaluable in performing numerous other functions. Repeatability is easily achieved with a number of guide rail extensions. Also it takes up very little space. I highly recommend this approach. The rail system works great with routers for shelf support spacing and rabitting.

3 horse, 220 volt cabinet saw. Your choice. Sawstop is nice, I have old school Unisaw. Consider building the router table into your saw extension as a space saver. This has worked well for me over the years.

Get a combo jointer-planner. Preferably 12" with spiral type head.

A solid dust collection will extend your life and make the whole process more enjoyable.

Don't know what to say about the outdoor finishing other than it is problamatic at best. I finally added a 10' x 12' dedicated finishing room and love having it.

Big fan of the SuperMax open end drum sander if you do a lot of in-house milling, cutting boards or cabinet doors. Way better than the Jet for a small premium.

Get a quality bansaw that you can use for resawing as well.

Put everything on wheels with positive stops (spend the money for real wheels).

My 2 cents. Remember to enjoy the process. you choose to do this, its not a punishment for that incident with the Nuns.

[Jery Madigan]

You can rip perfectly parallel strips from sheets with a Festool tracksaw and one of several types of parallel guides. For repeating projects. create spacing boards and you get perfect repeatability and it is fast. I have a slider, but break down to parallel parts with the Festool. The slider is great for the crosscuts and squaring when needed, but you may get away with a shorter slider with the Festool. I do like the safety of the slider.

[Bill Sutherland]

+1 For the Festool. I have Festool system and sheet goods are fast and precise. Additionally, I'm not having to lift the sheet goods. As a suggestion, Festool has a 30 day return policy so why not try the system out (make sure you get the Parallel Guides) and I think you may be surprised how fast and how exact your cuts will be.

[Earl Rumans]

You may want to check out this machine http://wood.baileighindustrial.com/combination-woodworking-machine-mf-3005 It's a pretty good deal for what you are getting and it's single phase also.

[Joe Jensen]

You can rip perfectly parallel strips from sheets with a Festool tracksaw and one of several types of parallel guides. For repeating projects. create spacing boards and you get perfect repeatability and it is fast. I have a slider, but break down to parallel parts with the Festool. The slider is great for the crosscuts and squaring when needed, but you may get away with a shorter slider with the Festool. I do like the safety of the slider.

I tried a Festool TS75 track saw and it leaves and edge as good as the slider. Great for putting a straight edge on a piece. But I really struggled to get perfect 90 degree cuts on sheet goods. Perfectly parallel was a challenge too, but I didn't have a parallel cutting jig. I tried the track saw first and ended up going to a slider. I still have the track saw and it's a fantastic tool, it just couldn't do for me what the slider does.

[Jery Madigan]

I tried a Festool TS75 track saw and it leaves and edge as good as the slider. Great for putting a straight edge on a piece. But I really struggled to get perfect 90 degree cuts on sheet goods. Perfectly parallel was a challenge too, but I didn't have a parallel cutting jig. I tried the track saw first and ended up going to a slider. I still have the track saw and it's a fantastic tool, it just couldn't do for me what the slider does.

A parallel guide set about quadruples the value of the track saw IMO. You don't need to spend a fortune. The Precision Guide or Rip Dog Guide sets can had for about $180 including the separately purchased Incra track. It does help precision a lot to set the guides with the Woodpecker Woodworking rule with stop, though.

[Chris Parks]

Yep, tried both track saw and slider, slider wins by so far there is no competition. I can cut a sheet while the track saw is being set up and I know it is square without checking the result. Set the fence stop and push, can't get any simpler than that. The biggest hurdle with any system is getting the sheet either on the saw or on the stands or whatever is used. The older I get the harder it gets.

[Bill Sutherland]

I hear ya on the "older". I'm 70 and even though I run and lift weights on a daily basis I find it difficult to horse around sheets of plywood/mdf just to cut them down. With my track saw setup I simply flop them on a couple of sacrificial 2x4's, square it up and make my cuts. I also have a Walko bench in addition to my Festool tables and that really takes care of just about any cutting scenario. I'm sure the slider is more than capable but my Festool has the benefit of all the other attachments/tools that are part of the system in addition to cutting sheet goods.
I just don't have the room for a slider in my garage and living in a cold winter climate makes it even tighter.

[Brian W Smith]

We have a big 14/16 TS,a short stroke slider,and tracksaw/s.........they all have their place.Just wanted to comment on the short strokes,they're so much more than just "squaring" tools.Ours can do 38",but for the life of me,can't remember the last time we even got close to "maxing" it.

[Patrick Anderson Chicago]

Sounds to me like the grizzly may do what I need, I am not up for spending $7500 on a tool, I watched a video the other day of the slider making an entire rocking chair, pretty impressive but I am not sure I like the approach that much. For one thing, I definitely see myself upgrading to a larger shop someday down the road, it will most likely be around 24x36 minimum. I really enjoy being able to have a few different tools set up and with my wife helping me, we often take up different jobs at the same time. While this may not always be a reality in the existing space, it certainly will down the road.

As for the festool setup, I have tried these out before, a friend has a makita setup and for the work I will be doing, I can see myself spending way more time on my jobs than I want, it will get tedious quick. The more I read and see, the more I am convinced that a slider is the only way to go for me. The only issue now is deciding which one to go for. If I grab the grizz, am I going to be left wanting in accurate cuts? I don't care as much about being able to do 10' strokes, I can always do the first cut without the slide if it will mean I can fit the machine in my garage, save several thousand dollars and still get accurate and predictable results.

What exactly is the problem with the fence on this machine, does it need to be checked frequently for accuracy and re-aligned? Is it hard to use from an ergonomics standpoint? Which fence is there a problem with, the cross cut, the rip or both? Could a traditional beismeyer fence be installed to solve these problems? Is the fence that comes with it a T square or is it some other inferior design? I have heard that euro saws have inferior rib fences to the american beismeyer style, I had hoped that this one might be sort of the best of both worlds, a slider with an american style fence.

From the specs, it sounds like the grizzly will do 63" of stroke, my largest cabinets are 60" so this may be enough.

There is local casolin 10' slider for sale for $5k, it looks like it is in pretty decent shape but I have no idea if they have the tilting arbor, if it is fixed, a festool is worth far more to me.

[Jim Andrew]

Does anyone know any details about that Baileigh machine? Was not aware of any Taiwan or Chinese companys building that type of combo, maybe it is a euro machine?

[nicholas mitchell]

I would buy a used euro slider before any grizzly. The Casolin is a good maker. It will be right tilt. If you go with a slider you'll have to eliminate any thoughts of working on a cabinet saw. The work processes are very different. If you use a slider properly you'll be working on the left side of the blade mostly. There is nothing wrong with the fences on euro sliders, forget the bies.
If you do go for a used slider just be aware that they are very difficult machines to transport. Most likely you'll be taking the slider off the machine, then you'll have to put it back on. Do you know how? Do you know how to align and calibrate the tables, fences , slider, base etc. ?
I'm not trying to turn you off, but these are things to consider.
If you're thinking of spending $5k used then you should seriously consider a new slider from Hammer or the like. Delivered and commissioned.

[David Kumm]

You really need to identify your needs as different sized sliders are very different in operation. A long stroke- 10 ft - handles everything from the left, including ripping. They need to be heavily built and used are very cheap. Saws that cost 15K new sell for 4-6K in good condition. Avoid electronics when possible and look for a machine where the scorer can be raised and dropped with a lever, not with an allen wrench. SCMI, Casadei, Casolin, Griggio and holz her are of similar build, each with their own quirks. Mid size sliders- 78-81" take up less room and handle crosscutting and 60x60 baltic birch but don't work as well for ripping and are a little awkward because of that. That is the size when you can't fit the longer one. Build is still important but less so. That is the size you see Hammer and other lighter saws in. Felder and MM are often listed used in the mid size and much preferred to lighter saws. Short stroke sliders can be used like a traditional with a sliding table as a bonus but the slider is limited. If space is really short it is better than a traditional as the slider is like found money. You do need a fence that goes on and off easily and returns to 90 exactly or you are doomed.284212284213284215 Middle is a mid sized with a home made extension for ripping 8' ply. Works OK but nothing like the big slider. Dave