first time entry door attempt

[Charlie Fox]

been reading a bit and everything seems to be more detailed than what i envision, panels, stiles, rails, etc, so please let me know if i am going the wrong way. i want to make a standard 36x80 door. i may be oversimplifying this - but i was thinking just getting some 8/4 red oak and gluing them together to get a solid plank. i would rip one piece prior to gluing so that once assembled i am at my final width, to avoid having to cut down the entire door to final size. it would likely take 4 planks, and i suppose I should alternate the grain and have cup down, cup up, etc.


then i would router out a hole and inset to place whatever glass the wife decides she wants in the door. not making any panels per se, but would use some trim to make some decorative panels as done in my recent thread with a mantel. once done i will simply rout the hinge inserts in the exact place as the original door, and of course the hardware holes but thats pretty straight forward.

for finish i would likely go with Watco medium walnut as i really like what that does to red oak, then follow that with 6-7 or more coats of GF Gel Topcoat on all surfaces.

any pitfalls i am stupidly overlooking????

[Yonak Hawkins]

Red oak is not known to be a good outdoor wood, however if the door is pretty well sheltered, it would probably be OK.

[Ethan Melad]

where do you live? i would think that your biggest issue might be expansion/contraction.
according to http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/calculators/calc.pl your door (assuming northern red oak and a starting MC of 6%) could expand/shrink by 11/32 with a 3% change in MC.

[Mark Bolton]

been reading a bit and everything seems to be more detailed than what i envision, panels, stiles, rails, etc, so please let me know if i am going the wrong way. i want to make a standard 36x80 door. i may be oversimplifying this - but i was thinking just getting some 8/4 red oak and gluing them together to get a solid plank. i would rip one piece prior to gluing so that once assembled i am at my final width, to avoid having to cut down the entire door to final size. it would likely take 4 planks, and i suppose I should alternate the grain and have cup down, cup up, etc.


then i would router out a hole and inset to place whatever glass the wife decides she wants in the door. not making any panels per se, but would use some trim to make some decorative panels as done in my recent thread with a mantel. once done i will simply rout the hinge inserts in the exact place as the original door, and of course the hardware holes but thats pretty straight forward.

for finish i would likely go with Watco medium walnut as i really like what that does to red oak, then follow that with 6-7 or more coats of GF Gel Topcoat on all surfaces.

any pitfalls i am stupidly overlooking????

As well as other issues, from a non-door builder, ethan hit your first pitfall. A slab door as you outline, made from solids, will lock up tight in the opening in the summer, and be showing daylight past the weather seals in the winter. The would be if it stays flat in the first place.

The exterior of the door will be much wetter than the interior which with the solid glue up you mention will mean the door will be cupped severely.

[Von Bickley]

Charlie,
For an exterior door, I would prefer white oak.

[Charlie Fox]

ok, as i feared, i am way off base. is that why most "wood" doors are engineered material? i am Houston, it gets a tad moist down here. i have several good hardwood outlets, so could easily use white oak if that would work better, or even ash, or if i can rob a bank i could get walnut. and would it still cub with the grain alternated? door is protected from direct exposure, set in about 2 feet.


so going away from a slab idea - can someone recommend a set of plans/design/wood for an alternative design that would not expand/contract?

[Peter Quinn]

Entry door making is not rocket science, but its not without its rules either. You can't weather seal a slab door made from solid wood, it will grow and shrink so much the gaps will have to be huge. Plus you have a real good chance that door will cup as well as twist as well as swell.......see where this is going? The frame and panel door was one of the greatest improvements in building technology in recent history. Lets wood move, keeps elements and critters out. You can make a door that looks like a slab door, but its a lot more complicated than just gluing up four boards. Ladder frame in the middle, two thick skins, one on each side, gaps between boards to allow movement. Whatever you decide, skip the red oak unless its very well protected. Red oak is the wood equivalent of a sponge and has no particularly resistance to rot. Not an exterior species. White oak is much better, ash not so much. Cherry and walnut do ok as well, as does the obvious stuff like cypress, mahogany, spanish cedar, etc.

As to why most wood doors are engineered, its tough to source, sort, select, and defect enough quality lumber to satisfy a large commercial door manufacturers needs these days, and to have lumber ordered that way would surely bring a premium. My feeling is it is certainly possible to make a quality durable custom solid wood door, but its infinitely more difficult to make 200 or more of them a month. So mid sized to medium manufacturers go engineered then sell the heck out of it as the only responsible way to build when in reality its their only conceivable option. Certainly very tall or wide doors suggest the use of engineered material. Its a predictable way to meet demand and avoid losses from product failure.

If you really want to "make" your own door, you could buy a solid core slab door, or even a pre hung, then skin both sides with thin layers of solid, you have to either get below 3/16" thickness or let the skins float by using small chamfers that hide half laps which contain gaps to allow for movement. The first and last board are glued solid along one edge, the field is held on with elastometric urethane adhesive, works well enough., you just have to modify the jamb rabbit to accept the thicker door.

[Von Bickley]

This is my oak door...... It's actually fiberglass.

[lowell holmes]

Clarkes Hardwood Lumber has a selection of white oak. Their 8/4 supply is rather scratchy at this time. I was there last Saturday looking for door material. Since it is a back door and the white oak didn't really look that good, I went with vertical grain fir.

They have some nice looking mahogany though. Houston Hardwoods told me that they had no 8/4 white oak. You might also check with Mason's Mill to see what they have.

You realize that door you are fixing to make will weigh about 140 pounds.

[Peter Quinn]

This is my oak door...... It's actually fiberglass.


Hey Von, the grain in those panels is running upside down. Cathedral grain is generally considered more pleasant when possible to be pointing up, to the heavens, or god, or just to lighten the look. Its a basic design principle.... can you turn the panels around? On a more serious note I've turned away requests on several occasions from potential clients asking for hardwood doors, steered them towards fiberglass. I always tell them go look at the fiberglass units first, if you are still sold on wood, come back and we'll talk. A few I've just said no way I'm making a wood door for the exposure level on site, not if they have any expectation I'd warranty it, and they always do regardless of what they say. More practical than wood and handsome too.

[Mike Goetzke]

I built an entrance out of white oak. Like others said the door has loose panels to allow movement. Do some research and don't take shortcuts (Wow just looked it up that door is 4 years old already, I must be getting old):


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/Projects/Entrance%20Door/Finished/IMG_0391.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mbg/media/Projects/Entrance%20Door/Finished/IMG_0391.jpg.html)

[Andrew Hughes]

That's a sharp looking door mike,
Ive made a few solid door always VG Doug fir.
With a good paint it will last a long time.

[C Scott McDonald]

Red oak is not known to be a good outdoor wood, however if the door is pretty well sheltered, it would probably be OK.


Thats for sure. I have a red oak door and it requires a lot of maintenace.

[Charlie Fox]

all good info - Von did you buy your door at a box store? i cant complain, they look fine, and i assume it comes in thew complete box/jamb set.

Lowell - looks like we haunt the same wood purveyors. Houston Hardwoods and Mason's both have guys at top levels i have known since high school (40 yrs ago), so i enjoy doing business with those two shops.

and finally Mike - i LOVE that door. my house does not have the side panels, but the door is awesome. not too fancy but strong appeal. i think i am set with most all the tools to make that, although i do need a quality dado set. any directions to plans or other help is greatly appreciated...

[lowell holmes]

New Yankee Workshop has a video "Entrance Door" that I like. I don't build door exactly like the video in that I have a shaper and door cutters. I would recommend viewing the video prior to making your first door. It will get your feet on the ground.

[Von Bickley]

all good info - Von did you buy your door at a box store? i cant complain, they look fine, and i assume it comes in thew complete box/jamb set.


I got my door from our local lumberyard when we were building our house about 6 years ago. The door, sidelights, and transom are one unit.

[Mike Goetzke]

I should also add that although the project was fun it was not easy. I received extensive help every step of the way from a professional door builder I found on another forum. There are some pretty stressful TS cuts to be made. Especially on the door posts where the blade is fully raised and you are riding a 7' rip cut on 3/4" of material.

Mike

[lowell holmes]

That's why I mentioned the NYW video. It will help get your mind around it.

[Peter Quinn]

I should also add that although the project was fun it was not easy. I received extensive help every step of the way from a professional door builder I found on another forum. There are some pretty stressful TS cuts to be made. Especially on the door posts where the blade is fully raised and you are riding a 7' rip cut on 3/4" of material.

Mike


Weatherstrip rabbit in the jamb? That cut never gets fun, but there are ways to make it safeish.....featherboard stack, good infeed support, tall stout fence board.....still scary. I have to do those on a left tilt saw with the tall fence, fence to the left of the blade, blade leaning back into the wood, blade almost all the way up. I always pause for a second after setting that up and ask "Do I really want to do this". There is a router bit available you can run on a trim router with a bevel base, top bearing 3MM slot cutter, to make that cut, but I'm too cheap to spend the $50 on a cutter that does just that one thing,

[Jeff Duncan]

I think Peter has covered some of the basics and agree with everything he's said. If you try to build the door as a slab it is not going to go well for you. Besides re-thinking how your going to fabricate the door there are several things to consider. Are you doing this to save money, or for some specific custom look? If it's to save money you may be in for a big surprise. I'd advise pricing out all the materials you'll need before starting anything. Glass for instance may need to be tempered and will not be cheap. If your in a colder climate you will also want insulated glass….again, not cheap. Then there's the weatherstripping and finishing materials. In all likelihood the materials for building your own door will exceed a similar looking door you can buy ready to go.

If your building it for your own enjoyment then I'd advise doing a LOT of homework before buying anything. Not to be demeaning here, but your first thought for building the door as a slab, and wood choice of red oak, shows a lack of understanding of even the basics of door fabrication. As mentioned they are not rocket science, but they're not something everybody can do either. It takes a fair amount of knowledge to build an exterior door that will last through the seasons. Most of the pitfalls of building exterior doors have been worked out over the last few centuries or so and with a little research you can come up with a plan that will allow you to build a door that will last!

good luck,
JeffD

[John Piwaron]

Weatherstrip rabbit in the jamb? I always pause for a second after setting that up (in my saw) and ask "Do I really want to do this". There is a router bit available you can run on a trim router with a bevel base, top bearing 3MM slot cutter, to make that cut, but I'm too cheap to spend the $50 on a cutter that does just that one thing,

I *never* consider being too cheap for things like this. $50 is nothing compared to cutting off one of my favorite body parts. That doesn't mean I haven't done my share of risky things, but if I know of a way to do it safer, even if it requires some kind of router bit that's pricey and will only be used for that kind of cut, I'll do it. If, on the other hand, the safer alternative is a multi thousand dollar machine, well, that's another story. I'd probably do the risky saw cut since I can't spend huge money for something that'll get used once.

[John Piwaron]

That's why I mentioned the NYW video. It will help get your mind around it.


I've seen that. Norm makes it look easy. Norm makes everything look easy. But after viewing it a dozen times it doesn't look impossibly difficult either. I think an entry door is entirely doable and likely to survive when built with good technique and the right wood. If it's going to be protected from the elements with a storm door, so much the better.

I'm saying all that 'cause I built a door. It's waiting for me to install it this coming summer. All that remains to make are the jambs and exterior casing. My experience with using wood that's otherwise considered furniture wood in exterior application is the walnut I used as exterior casing around a window and some drip cap on a few windows. For it's rot resistant properties in the case of the drip cap. It's what I had lying around the moment I realized I needed to do some repairs. I applied finish (primer and paint or CPES and varnish) to all surfaces on that walnut in each repair. For the window casing, that's for the looks.

In all cases the walnut is working out great. The varnish too, so far. Multiple coats of a marine varnish called Epifanes clear gloss varnish. It never gets hard like a polyurethane does.