Questions upon questions!

[Kit Dumph]

First off, I just want to thank and acknowledge all the information that the members of this form have put out there and helped newbies such as myself get a grasp on engravers.

So here is where I'm at, I'd like to get a laser engraver and this would be my first experience in buying one. I'm not starting a business, but would like the machine to pay for itself in odd jobs here and there down the road. I'm interested in engraving everything from wood to metal and would like a machine that is versatile enough to do this. More specifically engravings on firearms, electronics such as iPhones, MacBooks, and so on. I'd like to do glass also, but it seems from my research on this forum that a sandblaster would do this much better for that purpose?

I want to keep this under 15k preferably around 10k in price. I'm not opposed to refurbished or used machines. Is there a source for used machines?

I'd like the machine to run off of my mac and OSX, i have VMWARE but it doesn't run as smoothly as i'd like with windows.

Also it seems that I need to keep in mind the cost for replacement parts.

I'm located in Colorado so of course am interested in Epilogs lasers.

If you guys were in similar circumstances what machines and ideas would you be looking at?

[Scott Shepherd]

You can buy a Epilog, Universal, or Trotec, brand new for that amount. You'll be at the entry level models, but they all have them and they all do a good job. I think all 3 had models under $10K. No one is doing anything native to the Mac at this point. Epilog announced a mac driver, but it's very basic at this point from what I downloaded and played with. I think the market is a couple years away from having much on the Mac side.

What's your plan for creating graphics? Illustrator? CorelDraw?

[Kit Dumph]

Thank you for the response, and it's disappointing the manufactures haven't caught up with the Mac market. At the moment I'm very open on the software, what do you suggest for ease of use and function? Obviously being a mac guy I like things that simply work and don't take hours upon hours to learn and manipulate properly even if that does sometime come at the price of reduced functionality.

[Dee Gallo]

Welcome to the Creek, Kit!

I am a MacUser too, and find that Bootcamp (a native to Mac os) is the best fit for me to use CorelDraw. While CD was not my favorite program, it is needed for working with my Epliog and the best thing is to use it and get used to it. It will grow on you after a while. I can send jobs wirelessly with no problems.

I started out with a used $3000 Epilog and it was a real workhorse... I sold it two years later for the same amount I paid. It paid for itself in about 4 months. Look for a dealer who might have a used unit for sale. Being close to the factory might be in your favor there. Both tech support and parts will be easy for you to access if needed, so I recommend Epilog. It's a great company to deal with and the two lasers I have are great reliable units.

When figuring your costs, please remember you will need more than a laser and computer. You will need an exhaust system, an air compressor, and if you are doing metal you might want to get an airbrush for Cermark. You should consider investing in a hub and surge suppression system too to protect the delicate electronics. Plus all kinds of stuff to burn! But there are plenty of places to find cheap substrates to practice on and nothing will be sacred once you start engraving.

cheers, dee

[Matthew Grant]

Hi,

Low to medium power CO2 lasers will not engrave metal. They can remove anodization from aluminum, and can anneal thermark into a marking, but marking firearms is YAG territory. Or >100W of CO2.

[Tony Lenkic]

GCC claims that their Laser Pro C180 has a Mac driver using Illustrator. Size is bit small 12 x 18 work area.
The cost is about 10K without accessories.

[Kit Dumph]

It kinda seems, that to simplify things I should just run windows due to the software really not being out there yet? Also what are the main differences between illustrator and coral draw? I have some experience with photoshop and InDesign and seems like there is enough youtube videos for Adobe products to get anyone started.

Also other then the manufacture and craigslist, is there any other recommended sources to find used lasers?

[David Somers]

Kit,

Corel vs illustrator is a bit like asking someone Mac or PC. More of a religious thing than anything. For some reason I think most in engraving are using Corel. And I think you will find the biggest base of support in this forum is around Corel as well. Though there are a modest number of Illustrator users.

If you already know Adobe products you may find Illustrator easier to pick up since the logical flow is the same, and terminology is fairly consistent. If you are just a modest user of adobe though I might lean towards corel just since so many engravers seem to be using it.

I would not hesitate to run what you want either in Corel or Adobe within either a VMware virtual machine, or from Bootcamp. The awkward thing to bootcamp for me though is the need to reboot the computer to flip from the Mac environment to the windows environment. That is not huge, but in my work it is annoying. I use VMware fairly heavily both from a native windows environment on a PC, and from a Mac environment on a Macbook Pro. For whatever that is worth.

I will let others help you with reliable sources for used lasers.

Exciting stuff huh?!! Hope this all works out excellently for you!

Dave

[Ross Moshinsky]

I'd re-think your target business. $25-50 to personalize a $300-2000 item....

Relatively high risk for a relatively small reward.

[Kit Dumph]

I already use VMware so I will be going this route then. I do like being able to drag and swipe between operating systems.

My target business isn't necessarily firearms, just thought it would be neat to be able to have this option. I don't even have a real business sense for this, would rather it just pay for itself down the road and enjoy having one of these. The more I look it seems that in my price range I can't have the best of both worlds. So I will stick what a lesser powered machine.

Corel or Adobe I think I will just have to see if I can demo both products and see. I'm of the younger generation and can typical pick up pretty quickly on software.

So my next question is for the average engraver what surface area size do you guys like? It seems to me that the majority of projects wouldn't require a large working space?

[Mike Null]

If you don't have a strong preference I'd suggest CorelDraw as it is the standard of the engraving business so far as lasers are concerned. There is a lot of help available both here and on the internet.

[Bert Kemp]

Engraving area I think with out a doubt most here would tell you the larger the better,of course the price goes up with size as well as power. If your going to do mostly engraving verse cutting 25 to 60 watts will be fine, if your going to do mostly cutting 60 and up, but we know your budget of 10k, Over 80 watts will make low power engraving harder. And if your looking at the big 3 keeping under 10k with decent power and bed size will be tough. You could look at some of the imports, you can get a decent 60 watt with a decent bed size for well under 10k just MHO. I thiink everyone will agree get the biggest bed and most power you budget allows.

[Scott Shepherd]

Over 80 watts will make low power engraving harder. And if your looking at the big 3 keeping under 10k with decent power and bed size will be tough.

That only applies to the Chinese machines. The tubes used in the mainstream machines have no problems engraving at low power.

[Kit Dumph]

Corel draw it is then. Guess I will be looking for a used machine most likely to find a good middle ground between size and power.

[Kit Dumph]

One last question, which windows versions works best in relation with coreldraw and these machines from the big three?

[Dan Hintz]

One last question, which windows versions works best in relation with coreldraw and these machines from the big three?

I would use nothing lower than Win7 at this point in the game. XP will no longer be supported by next month, and Vista was just an annoyance.

[Mike Null]

If you're not going to use it on the internet then XP or XP pro is outstanding but you will be at risk if you use it on the internet. I just bought a new pc with Win 8.1 but I'm going to continue to use my XP pro to operate a couple of machines and printers off line.

[Chuck Stone]

nothing wrong with keeping an el-cheapo XP box that does NOTHING
except run the laser..

[David Somers]

Kit,

I agree with Dan, Mike and Chuck for what it is worth. Win 7 or better. And if you must use XP don't let it touch the internet. Keep it on its own box, or use something like VMWare running on your Win 7 or 8.x box to setup a virtual machine with it and disable the virtual NIC on it inside VMWare. Main thing is after April, don't let it see the internet.

Dave

[Chuck Stone]

Main thing is after April, don't let it see the internet.

Dave

Why not?
I know they're not going to support it anymore, but it shouldn't stop working.
I only suggested an XP box because they're everywhere for almost nothing,
and if you're only using it to run the laser you should never need to upgrade it.
I can press "File, Print" just as quickly on a 32 bit machine as on a 64 bit.. ;-)

[Dan Hintz]

Why not?
I know they're not going to support it anymore, but it shouldn't stop working.

Let me instruct thou in the ways o' the hacker, grasshopper...

Look for an OS that a major portion of a population uses, one that changes very little at the core from version to version. Wait until they stop providing patches for a version, and pay close attention to the next batch of updates for the supported versions. See what changes they make in those updates, and determine if those same mistakes exist on the older, unsupported version. If so, exploit the older version via the roadmap kindly provided to you by the manufacturer. Epic win, very little work.

It's not as good as an 0-day, but since it's a bug that will no longer be fixed, you have until the anti-virus companies pick up on it. Even then, not everyone runs AV.

[Don Corbeil]

a little off topic, but I haven't loaded any of those MS security patches on my systems (Win 7, XP before that) for years... There are so many tools out there that can protect my system, all the way from the router to the firewall, that I have never had a successful attack get through.
The one other thing I do now is create a cloned backup system drive, so that IF something were to get through, I wipe the infected drive and use a clean cloned drive to reinstall. I back up the clone regularly, as it is the fail safe.

[Chuck Stone]

If so, exploit the older version via the roadmap kindly provided to you by the manufacturer.

Ah ... gotcha.
I keep forgetting the l33ts and script kiddies gotta eat, too..

[Bert Kemp]

Let me instruct thou in the ways o' the hacker, grasshopper...

Look for an OS that a major portion of a population uses, one that changes very little at the core from version to version. Wait until they stop providing patches for a version, and pay close attention to the next batch of updates for the supported versions. See what changes they make in those updates, and determine if those same mistakes exist on the older, unsupported version. If so, exploit the older version via the roadmap kindly provided to you by the manufacturer. Epic win, very little work.

It's not as good as an 0-day, but since it's a bug that will no longer be fixed, you have until the anti-virus companies pick up on it. Even then, not everyone runs AV.Shame on them