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lucas kreft
03-03-2014, 2:24 PM
283901283902283903

I am the new engraver for a company. We use laserpro spirit/ge/gx model.
I have been having the issue with the laser not creating straight lines. Like the track jumps(image 1).
Also a problem with the laser reflecting at the edge where the machine stops and burns reflecting lines when there should be no pulse(image 2, 3).
The laser is also having an issue with overburn(example the triangle in the letter "A" it looks like there is no "A", mostly a silhouette.

The tecnician came in to look at the machine. My lens is in the correct location they are also cleaned.

Anyone know of this problem or solution?

Thank you
Lucas

I have a lot of experience with different machines and have been a part of this community for many years.

Kev Williams
03-03-2014, 3:25 PM
I took your first picture, cut the jagged line out of "Kerri", then lowered it and re-sized it within "Patricia"-- aside from the re-sizing, the lines are virtually identical. This tells me that the problem is likely NOT mechanical, as mechanical issues tend to be more random. This issue is pretty specific.

That said, I'm much better at diagnosing mechanical issues, rather than why the laser is firing the wrong place, but in exactly the same wrong place each time?

283913

Mike Null
03-03-2014, 3:27 PM
Lucas

Just a guess here but I would clean the machine thoroughly including tracks, bearings and belts. Check your optics to be sure they are secure. Move the laser head side to side and front to back to see if you can sense any roughness.

As far as the leakage goes it may be in the tickle setting and I can't give you any guidance there.

Good luck.

Dan Hintz
03-03-2014, 4:04 PM
I took your first picture, cut the jagged line out of "Kerri", then lowered it and re-sized it within "Patricia"-- aside from the re-sizing, the lines are virtually identical. This tells me that the problem is likely NOT mechanical, as mechanical issues tend to be more random. This issue is pretty specific.

That said, I'm much better at diagnosing mechanical issues, rather than why the laser is firing the wrong place, but in exactly the same wrong place each time?

283913

I'm with Kev on this one. The real "tell" to me on this one is the weird stuff happens when there is very little action going on in the line. Notice how for the top portion of "Patricia", where only the top of the 'P' really sticks above the rest of the name (same with the 'L' in "Lawrence"), there is a shift. For the rest of the name's engraving, there's a lot of "on time" with the laser. This screams tickle to me, and if not that, a poor communications line somewhere... but it mostly screams tickle.

lucas kreft
03-03-2014, 4:15 PM
I will let my technician know. Thank you like always! It was funny my tecnician said don't believe answers on the internet, but he doesn't know this forum.
sawmillcreek 1, technician 0

David Somers
03-03-2014, 4:51 PM
Dan,

When you or Mike have a chance can you define tickle? Other than something we expect from Elmo of course?
Also, it seems like it is a setting that is not available, or maybe not evident, on all machines? I looked for it in the Rabbit manual I downloaded for example and don't see it mentioned there?

Dave

David Somers
03-03-2014, 5:02 PM
OK....I love being on perpetual hold. Gives me a chance to dig into oddball things I wouldnt normally be able to.

It seems like Tickle is some kind of a "sleep mode" for the tube that keeps it ready to fire without undue warm up time? Or am I misinterpreting that? Seems like it somehow keeps the tube powered up/warmed up at a level that allows the tube to fire quickly without delay? All the references I found for it while on hold seemed to reference it at start up though. If I am reading this right, how does it apply to a laser that is running actively like it would on this job? Or does the tube cool down quickly enough between bursts as it moves through a job that it also has a tickle setting that keeps it up and ready for the next "blast?"

Dave

Dan Hintz
03-03-2014, 5:09 PM
Seems like it somehow keeps the tube powered up/warmed up at a level that allows the tube to fire quickly without delay?

Or does the tube cool down quickly enough between bursts as it moves through a job that it also has a tickle setting that keeps it up and ready for the next "blast?"

Do I even need to be here, David? ;)

David Somers
03-03-2014, 5:27 PM
Dan....It is amazing what you find when you look something up, huh? <sheepish grin>

It doesn't appear to be a universal setting though? Or at least I am not seeing it in the level of manual I have access to for something like the Rabbits? Does it go by different names? Or do some manufacturers just say "nah......customers don't need to futz with stuff like that? Give 'em an on and an off and let it go at that!"

Mike Null
03-03-2014, 5:37 PM
Dave

The mfrs I am familiar with caution the owners not to adjust tickle setting without the assistance of tech support. I have no experience with Chinese built machines but they are pretty much diy machines.

David Somers
03-03-2014, 6:25 PM
Hey Mike!

I can easily see Mfrs not wanting that touched lightly. If I read descriptions correctly the Tickle setting controls the sending of a repeated power pulse to the tube that is below the threshold of its firing, but is enough power, and at enough of a frequency to keep the tube ready to rumble. It would seem that if you upped the setting you end up consuming more power than needed at the very least. Wasteful obviously. Or perhaps you end up shortening the life of the tube by keeping it too ready all the time. Or....I am guessing at this, if the setting permits you to take it up high enough that the pulse can actually fire the tube you now have what would seem like a serious safety issue. It would strike me as dumb to allow it to get set anywhere near that high, but who knows. But I can see the need for tech support to be able to adjust it at times through the life of the machine, or to direct a user to do it.

I am also guessing that this is one of many ways that companies like Trotec and Epilog and ULS are able to keep the speeds of their machines up so high. If the tube burns from point A to point B in its job, and going from point B to C is a non firing movement, being able to resume firing between points C and D without having to bring the tube up to a ready level again would help keep things moving fast. It seems like the Chinese machines would also need this function, at least to some degree. So I was wondering if they are simply hiding it from the casual user? Or is it there but referred to by another term? Or perhaps set by a pot of some sort rather than through software? Curious. Or at least I was made curious when I didn't see it obviously in a Chinese Laser's manual.

Sorry <grin> ....without laser in hand I have to dig some and ask some and muse some about stuff like this. Trying to keep learning about these things while I bide my time to actually getting one. Until then, I keep aiming my laser pointer through my magnifying glass and hoping!!!

Dave

Mike Lysov
03-03-2014, 8:03 PM
I believe it is called bleeding and you need to adjust frequency or duty or combination of both.

Have a look at the page 58 of the following manual

http://www.jorlink.com/Portals/0/Manuals/Manual_Spirit_SI_GE_GX_LS_Maintenance_Manual_JorVe r.pdf

It explains how access hidden settings on Spirit GX and change them. The "down arrow key" mentioned there is the one located below the Enter button.

I hope I do not break any rules posting a link to a pdf file.
Mine starts bleeding if Frequency is set to 7KHz and duty is over 01.0us.

Mike Null
03-03-2014, 8:11 PM
Dave

I am not a technically trained person so I prefer to let the techies do their thing and I'll do mine (many, many years in marketing). On certain things I can find no reason for me to spend a lot of time studying, ie. Chinese machines, tickle settings etc. This is the largest engravers forum that I know of and we have many knowledgeable members who can and do offer their expertise freely.

There is a substantial difference in the speeds of the Trotec vs. Epilog and Universal. I do not believe the tickle setting has a bearing on speed. I did have occasion a number of years back to adjust the setting on an Epilog I was using but I had a tech on the line. (it was making random marks on my work and was called a leak by the tech)
BTW, it is not an adjustment that I've had to make on my own machines in 17 years.

Kev Williams
03-03-2014, 10:38 PM
My New Hermes LS900 has some built-in tests, one of them is for tickle adjustment. According to my machine's instructions:
"Tickle" is the term used for small pulses, which are fed to the laser to keep the plasma inside energized. This allows the laser to respond quickly and strongly for high speed cutting and engraving.

"Tickle" keeps the laser *warmed up* at times when the laser system is powered on but not firing and the top door is closed. We suggest keeping the door closed at all times to keep the laser warmed up. If the door is open, the power to the laser tube itself is turned off and the tube will cool down. The laser runs best after being warmed up for 15 to 20 minutes.

What follows is the test procedure, which is simply placing a plate in the machine that it engraves. WHAT it engraves is 12 lines, about 5" long and about 3/16" tall. Line 1 starts with no tickle, line 12 is max tickle. After a few lines, "impact marks"- what NH calls them- start showing up to the left and right of the actual engraved lines. They're exactly the same marks that are showing up in Lucas' sample, and therefore I'll concur that the tickle on his machine definitely needs adjusting. To adjust my machine, I find the first line that the impact marks start appearing. Their printed sample is nearly identical to my machine's output, with impact marks showing up on line 5. Instructions say to enter the next lower number, in this case 4, into the software prompt. HOWEVER- my machine came from the factory set at 3, and if I set it at 4, the laser fires a LOT just sitting idle. Not at all safe if you remove the interlock magnets and tape them together like I do! (I know I'm not the only one ;) ) --When set to 3, the noticeable idle firing seems to stop, and it works great.

However, since my hands are under the lens many times a day and the laser thinks the door is closed, I have my tickled turned OFF. Been that way for years, and I have never noticed the laser works any better after being warmed up than it does when I use it 1 minute after boot up. The ONLY negative thing I've noticed, and very rarely, and only in the past year, is the laser may not fire immediately after boot up. Like, for 2 sweeps of the head. The machine's going on 11 years old, could be it could use a little tickle... :)

Anyway, I can understand how a machine like Lucas' with tickle firing at the extreme edges where it shouldn't, may also be firing in the middle of the work where it shouldn't.

David Somers
03-03-2014, 11:26 PM
Thanks everyone! Appreciate all the explanations!! Pretty interesting stuff. They are pretty fascinating little devices aren't they?

Dave

Rodne Gold
03-04-2014, 3:30 AM
That doesnt look like a tickle/trickle voltage issue to me - that normally manifests itself as ghosting either side of a letter/image
To me , it is either a motor or encoder issue or worse than that , a motherboard issue. It could , however , be something as simple as a ribbon cable intermittent contact issue , the ribbon cable to the head would be the suspect here..they develop a crack on one of the flexible tracks and mess with the engraving , could also be the small circuit board at the head ribbon cable feed...


Are these lasers new or not?

lucas kreft
03-04-2014, 4:00 PM
there is a password to view the pdf...

Richard Rumancik
03-04-2014, 4:51 PM
Well, I say it's the tickle setting . . . the tube is lasing in the turn-around area so the tickle is too high and it is firing when it should not.

Lucas, did you get the pdf to adjust it? If you can't get it from your dealer let us know and someone can email you a copy.

Until you get the tickle adjusted don't worry about the middle. It's probably all related. You need to adjust the tickle down and retest.

Mike Lysov
03-05-2014, 8:05 PM
there is a password to view the pdf...

If you mean the PDF file I have posted the link to there is no password on it and you can open it in Chrome browser.
If you are still having problems opening it please advise your email and I will email it to you.

Matthew Grant
03-05-2014, 11:27 PM
Hi Lucas,

This output looks like what I got one time when the engrave data was simply too massive. Machine got confused at some point and skipped steps, giving slices of the image that were jogged. In my case it was a full 16"x24" sheet that went wonky in the last 2" at the bottom.
If the tickle discussion doesn't solve your issue, you may want to look at how much data is actually produced here. I hope it's very little, as it's simply a logo, line, and font. But depending on how the file is set up it may be millions of high-res bitmap points or something.

So: Is there anything usual about the engrave data, or is it simply a bitmap logo, line, and rendered font..?