Looking for info on unknown hand planes

[Eric Schubert]

I recently picked up some hand planes, as I’m looking to get into woodworking and I figure it’s good to have some solid hand tools to start with. Unfortunately, it’s hard to find information about all of them, so I thought I’d pick the collective brain of SMC to see if anyone knows more about the make/model/origin of some of these tools. I’ve included some photos. Aside from being fun to peruse, I hope they’ll be helpful in putting an ID to these planes.

Two of these planes were from my grandfather. I’ve been able to identify the low-angle block plane as a Sargent 306, probably a Type 2 or later model. The second and third photos show numbers under the cap and adjustable mouth plate.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Tools/Hand%20Planes/Sargent306BlockPlane-01_zps1a6053af.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Tools/Hand%20Planes/Sargent306BlockPlane-07_zpsf31a1506.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Tools/Hand%20Planes/Sargent306BlockPlane-09_zps00ccaa48.jpg

The second is a Fulton (Sears), although I’m not sure which model it is. There’s not much information about Fulton planes out there that I could find. It measures 9-9/16” long and 2-3/16” across. Any ideas which model this one might be?

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Tools/Hand%20Planes/Fulton-01_zps554c6ce7.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Tools/Hand%20Planes/Fulton-02_zps365ed4e9.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Tools/Hand%20Planes/Fulton-07_zpsd9794d9f.jpg

Three other planes were all acquired via Craigslist for a measly $10 total, so either way I’m sure I came out ahead in this deal.

The first appears to be a Sargent. It lists 1409 on the cap iron and 409 on the frog, so I'm not positive on the model number. I’m assuming it’s a 1409. The blade says it’s a Hercules, which fits in with that idea. I've already cleaned this one up quite a bit, using naval jelly to remove the rust and some sanding to clean up the sole and sides.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Tools/Hand%20Planes/Sargent409-01_zpsc1e9def8.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Tools/Hand%20Planes/Sargent409-02_zps54f9535f.jpg

The next plane has no brand markings. It measures 14-1/2” long and 2-3/8” wide, which I'm assuming makes it a fore/jack plane. The frog is integrated into the casting, so it’s not adjustable. I have no idea what make/model this plane is. The lateral adjustment lever indicates it may be a Sargent..? The first pic is a little blurry. Hopefully the second will make it easier to identify.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Tools/Hand%20Planes/UnknownJackPlane-01_zps6b5e64af.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Tools/Hand%20Planes/UnknownJackPlane-03_zps75411da3.jpg

Last, but not least (okay, probably least…), is another unknown brand. The stamped frog means it's not exactly a high-quality piece. But I'm still curious if anyone can identify it. It has the number 10 and a U inside of a circle behind the frog on the casting. Some research indicates it may be a Union plane, or that the U symbol indicates it's kosher? Since the frog is stamped, is it possible to replace it with another frog made of cast iron? Is it even worth bothering with? Maybe I could use it for rougher work?

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Tools/Hand%20Planes/UnknownSmoothingPlane-01_zpsfd907f0a.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Tools/Hand%20Planes/UnknownSmoothingPlane-06_zps270a65ab.jpg

Any information that you might have would be appreciated. I'm looking forward to really getting going on some projects with these once I clean them up!

[Jim Koepke]

My recollection is that Fulton and Hercules were both names used by Sargent for their lower tier planes.

The blade size by plane length would be the determining factor for what model you have. The Sargent 409 was an equivalent to the Stanley #4.

Not sure about the other planes. They look like attempts to get in on the market while the getting was good.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Not sure about that jack plane. The last one maybe a Worth plane. Might even be a "PEXTO" brand. Made for rough work, and little upkeep. The Fulton Brand was sold at Sears, along with a "Dunlap" plane. Fulton was by sargent, the Dunlaps? By whom ever bid the lowest each contract. Sargent made a few, as did Millers Falls ( I have a couple) and later by Stanley. There WAS a cast in place, with a half frog line back in the 1800s. Stanley made a few of them, for a couple years only, then onto the "phase" 2 frogs. So, IF you remove the lever cap and the iron, there MIGHT be a surprise under it.

[Eric Schubert]

Thanks, guys. The Fulton blade is a bit thin, so I figured it might be a lower line of planes. But I'm happy to have something in that #4 range to start out with. I can always (and probably will) replace the iron with a newer, thicker blade. I'm tight on funds right now, so it may be a while. With Hock blades around $30-$40 each, they'll have to wait. But I can always try sharpening up the few that I have and get some practice.

I've disassembled each plane and looked at each piece to see if I could find any markings anywhere. Anything I found I posted along with the photos. Unfortunately, no surprise under the lever cap and iron on any of these.

[Jim Koepke]

I can always (and probably will) replace the iron with a newer, thicker blade. I'm tight on funds right now, so it may be a while. With Hock blades around $30-$40 each, they'll have to wait.

Home Depot was carrying a 2" blade branded Buck Brothers for $3. I have one in a plane of mine and it seems to be working fine and holds an edge well.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?181726-Brothers-Buck-Meet-the-Frankenplane

My understanding is they are made in Mexico and China. Possibly they are made in numerous countries.

jtk

[don wilwol]

Here is some Fulton information http://timetestedtools.wordpress.com/2014/02/28/fulton-or-fulton-tool-company/

[Eric Schubert]

Thanks, guys. I'll look into the HD blades. But I'll also see if there may be others in between the Hock and BB blades for quality and price. In the long run, though, I figure it's best to spend the money once on a quality blade.

[Jim Koepke]

Thanks, guys. I'll look into the HD blades. But I'll also see if there may be others in between the Hock and BB blades for quality and price. In the long run, though, I figure it's best to spend the money once on a quality blade.

I am amazed at the blade from HD for $3. It is used regularly and works great.

I do like my Hock blades in O1. They do hold an edge better than most of my old stock Stanley blades.

Though when it comes to making shavings, it would be necessary for me to look to know what blade was in the plane.

jtk

[Eric Schubert]

That's good to know. Maybe just to start out and while I'm learning to sharpen blades, it would be best to start with those. They're cheap, so if I mess anything up it isn't a big deal. I also need to pick up a honing guide. I've tried some freehand honing, and my bevel is rounding over. I think a guide might help me build some muscle memory before trying freehand honing again.

[Joe Tilson]

Jim,
Some time back I took your advice and bought a Buck Bros. 2" blade. I had a #5 which had a blade that looked like and saw blade on the tooth side. These blades are good for $3.00 blades as you have stated several times. Thanks for the info.
Joe

[Eric Schubert]

I'm starting to pick out replacement blades for these planes. I know that Buck Bros. has been mentioned.

The 306 block plane I displayed above has small grooves that are close together on the underside of the blade that fit with the adjustment mechanism. I want to be sure that the replacement blade will fit properly. In my search I ran across a few different 1-5/8" block plane blades. (Buck Bros. (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Buck-Bros-1-5-8-in-Replacement-Cutter-120PL158/100192314), Stanley 1 (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Stanley-1-5-8-in-Block-Plane-Cutter-12-331/203950225), Stanley 2 (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Stanley-Block-Plane-Iron-Cutter-12-508/203891304#specifications)) I believe the "Stanley 2" will not work, as the slot is wider. The existing blade only has a 0.4" slot in it, measured with a caliper. The "Stanley 1", which is their 12-331 doesn't show if it has those notches, but the packaging seems to indicate it does on the Stanley web site. The Buck Bros. seems to only have the larger slots that go all the way through the blade.

Since the existing blade has the notches closer together, I'm assuming the Stanley 12-331 is what I'm going to need for the block plane?

As far as the larger planes, I'm guessing the blades are pretty much all the same configuration. I know there are better-quality blades out there, like Hock and Lie-Nielsen. But, as long as I choose the right width I should be fine, correct?

[steven c newman]

Get ahold of Eric @ nhplaneparts, and see IF he might have to correct iron for the 306.

[Jim Koepke]

My understanding on this is Stanley used the same blade for most of their planes using the 1-5/8" blades. This would work with either of the post and lever adjuster or the sliding frog adjuster. They are usually marked as being for the #9-1/2 plane or the #65. There are Stanley blades with no adjuster and they are smooth on both sides. I think it is the rib's size that is important as the lever on the post style adjuster has a notch that moves the blade via the rib it engages.

On their planes with a 1-1/2" blades there were many changes through the years.

jtk

[Eric Schubert]

I could easily unscrew and transfer the adjuster to another blade. Do they still have blades with lever adjusters? Or at least the tapped hole for the adjuster? I have yet to see any that have this feature.

Steven, thanks for the recommendation. I'll check them out and see if they have what I would need. But I'm more interested in new blades. I assume I'll eventually graduate to a higher-quality blade, like a Hock or LN. So knowing what to look for will help me when I get to that point.

[steven c newman]

IF this is a #306 block plane, then the iron would be a Sargent made one. Adjuster had a "fork" on the end.


On my Stanley #103, the iron's notches look more like a file, very small ones. They also look like they were stamped into the iron. The iron I have is from the SW era, too.

[Eric Schubert]

It looks to be a Sargent 306. Here's a picture of the blade it has currently.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Tools/Hand%20Planes/SargentBlade_zpsf8ebc581.jpg

[steven c newman]

Yep, that be a sargent made iron. 285199and the rest of the plane, in this case a Fulton/ Sears

[Eric Schubert]

So, would that Stanley blade work with my Sargent? Or do I need to locate a more suitable one? The notches look similar, but it doesn't have the hole for the adjuster.

[steven c newman]

See IF I can find a better view. At one time, I had both a #306, and a #307. You might also try an older 9-1/2 iron off a Stanley block plane. The adjuster though is one of those sargent type of things. 285224I guess the Fulton was a #307. This is the #306. The knob is knickel plated steel, and the bolt goes all the way through. It was an adjustable mouth plane. Unlike the #307.

[Eric Schubert]

Thanks. Maybe I'll see if I can sharpen up the original blade and see how it performs, then decide if I should replace it or not. Worst-case, I just don't have the lateral adjuster and I adjust by hand.

[Noah Wagener]

I have a plane stamped "The Fulton" that doesn't look anything like that.

285238285239

The blade is stamped Sandusky.

THis plane is weird. It has three nail holes along the left side of the sole like a fence was nailed to it and the sole is canted. The blade was eighteen degrees.

[Jim Koepke]

The blade in your picture seems to be perfectly fine.

You might have to search through all the blade makers to see if anyone makes new replacement blades for a Sargent block plane. You won't likely wear that blade out before finding something.

jtk

[steven c newman]

"TheFulton" brand was Sandusky's salute to Robert Fulton. Nail holes are from a fence being nailed to the side as this was a jointer plane. That "36" I think was for Fulton's steamboat. yep, this is a boat size of a plane. Just a big old jointer by Sandusky Tool.

[kris brown]

A circle u stamp is for plomb/penens a company that made hand tools for craftsman 1944-48