adjustable groover shaper cutter for entry and interior doors

[David Scheckman]

I've been looking at shaper insert cutters for both entry doors (1 3/4) and interior doors (1 3/8). Most of our work, really all of our work is square edge mission or shaker style. Often one-off but I'd like an approach that would be reasonably efficient for up to 10 doors in a batch. My general approach is cope and stick with an added loose tenon, in solid wood. It seems like an adjustable grooving cutter would be a reasonable tooling approach for the cope and stick. It would require separate set ups but could do both the cope and stick. I would be using an SCM 110 shaper. Any suggestions on particular cutters and suppliers or comments on this approach. It seems like some adjustable groovers are set up for spacing for tenons and some are not. Online its hard to tell which are and which aren't. The other alternative might be a Freeborn set that does both entry and passage doors but at $1500 makes me stop and think. Hard to say whether I'll have the volume to justify that. The adjustable groover setup seems like it would have many uses in a custom shop. Thanks for any insight.
David

[Peter Quinn]

I have a laguna set I got on close out, insert head, around 160MM diameter, the groover for that is adjustable from something like 3/8" to 5/8". I also bought a garniga insert grover with the split plates that can be reversed, 180MM diameter, its metric bit will groove from around 3/4"-1 9/16". Nice thing is when you flip the top and bottom heads it becomes a tenon cutter that will do just what you seek on the cope give a half inch stub tenon (or actually up to a 2 1/2" tenon length) and there is enough knife above and below the tenon to do a 2" thick door. I haven't found a single head that will do 1 3/8" (assuming 1/4" panel groove) and 1 3/4" doors (assuming 1/2" panel groove) both cope and stick. I suppose a square edge 1 3/8" door you could do a 1/2" panel groove and run 7/16" flats, and 1/2" through 1" groover might just catch that but then you don't have enough cutting height above and below the stub tenon on to do 1 3/4" doors, unless you run 3/4" panel tongues on those, then you might get one head to do everything, but you are sort of limited if you do square edge raised panel in terms of panel thickness and profiles with the thick tongues.

So my thinking is you really need something like this amana head (http://www.amanatool.com/shaper/61354.html) for grooving, and another head for the tenons, like amana 61355 where you can reverse the plates and make the stub tenons. That sort of set up would cover you from cabinet doors through 2" entry doors. Not saying you have to go amana, garniga makes similar as does lueco, CMT, and a few others. Another option would be an insert groover for the panel grooves and a pair of insert rabbit heads to make the copes. This might actually be cheaper than the larger reversible groover/tenoning head, and potentially more useful depending on your typical work. I actually bought two garniga rabbit heads with the intention of doing just that, then wound up getting the larger garniga slot/tenon head on a close out from Laguna. http://www.lagunatools.com/accessories/shaper-cutter/Laguna-Adjustable-Grooving-Cutter I got the 180MM garniga head, 20-40MM cutting height, really nice tooling. Rangate also sells the garniga line and has competitive clearance item in the early summer it seems each year, worth getting on their email list if you are interested in this type of tooling. All the garniga stuff is reversible for either grooves or tenons, but a small groover won't make a very thick cope, maybe you could do panel grooves and also use it for square edge cabinet doors?

[Mel Fulks]

At times I've used corg knives and spread them apart or brought closer as needed .

[David Scheckman]

Thanks, That makes sense. I thought maybe one reversible cutter would make it but I can see you're right, two would give better range. I have a couple of the amana insert cutters and they have seem fine for the $. How can you tell that the 61355 cutter is reversible, since it doesn't seem to say that in the write up?
Thanks,
David

[David Scheckman]

Another quick question. The Amana cutters come with shims but they are very thin. In the case of making tenons, what works best for spacers. Can you use the stock spindle spacers or do they need to be a particular diameter?
Thanks,
David

[Rod Sheridan]

Another quick question. The Amana cutters come with shims but they are very thin. In the case of making tenons, what works best for spacers. Can you use the stock spindle spacers or do they need to be a particular diameter?
Thanks,
David

I have mine made up by the local tooling supplier, with my cutterheads the shims are larger than the desired tenon thickness due to an offset on the cutter. The tooling supplier will make the exact shim to yield your tenon thickness. I think I paid $25 for mine.

[Peter Quinn]

I am assuming the amana head reverses based on the visual, looks just like my garniga, I would indeed call amana CS prior to placing an order, they are very approachable. Most of these heads work the same ime. For spacers my garniga set came with a pile of both shims and spacers up to almost 3/16" and down to .004", there are pins that allign the two heads in groover formation. When stacked as a tenon head the pins are in the way above the head but not between or below, so I use the 1 3/4"od set above to tighten the stack. I bought a set of 1 1/4" ID --1 3/4" of spacers that fit just inside the pins. Not sure if the amana set is the same, the spacers on my two Italian shapers are both around 2" od so neither set fits. I also have the door set from Laguna with the same configuration for the adjustable groover so I use the shims somewhat interchangeably. You can I think buy spacers with 1 3/4" of from amana as needed.

[David Scheckman]

As it turns out none of the Amana heads reverse. I ended up buying two heads from Greg at Rangate who was very helpful. They come with a range of shims. Between the two heads I'll be covered for a wide range of grooves and tenons.
Thanks for the help,
David

[Peter Quinn]

As it turns out none of the Amana heads reverse. I ended up buying two heads from Greg at Rangate who was very helpful. They come with a range of shims. Between the two heads I'll be covered for a wide range of grooves and tenons.
Thanks for the help,
David

Good deal, Greg is a good man, and those are the best cutters you can get. I'm surprised the amana's don't reverse, wouldn't be surprised if they actually did and the sales rep just doesn't understand it? Moot point. With the garniga heads I still found I needed 1 3/4" OD spacers to stack it as a tenon head, you'll see those pins that keep the alignment when used as a groover, they wind up above the cutter as a tenon head and the shim kit is not thick enough to fill the whole space. Further the stock spacers on an SCMI spindle are too big to fit between spindle and pins, so you can't tighten the stack. Luckily most domestic spacers do fit in that space, you probably only need one or two, maybe an 1" or so? Congrats on the purchase, you will love using those I'm sure. They make a fine rabbiting head too! Makes me never what to use any other.