Defiance hand planes?

[steven c newman]

I have seen those ones that look almost like a Handyman Plane, with the "Defiance" name stamped into the tote. However, been using a quite different Defiance plane. 283643 It has no real frog, just a couple ramps for the iron to sit on. No lateral lever, just tap the iron left or right. Adjuster is a left hand threaded brass wheel , the yoke slides side to side on a steel rod as you adjust for lateral. Reddisd coloured wood, with brass nuts on steel bolts.

I have a Wood River #4 V3, and it weighs easily TWICE as much as this little guy.:eek: Iron is 2" wide though. Fancy lever cap. It was never painted on the lever cap. either. Iron is just stamped "Defiance" Made in USA.

When the arms get tired of shoving around the "heavies", this one feels great. :eek:

Maybe there were two Defiance branded tool lines???

I can get a few more shots of this one, but will have to re-size them to post here....:rolleyes:

[Joe Bailey]

Here's a shot of one I got rid of long ago -- junk really.
I'm posting the one shot I still have that shows the un-frog configuration.
I'm doing this as a public service
It consists of two cast pedestals with a rod between them, on which the yoke pivots.
This basically yields exactly two points of support for the blade. Hell, a stamped steel frog is better than this!

283705

[steven c newman]

Yours MIGHT be a slightly different model? 283723Steel wheel to adjust things? The slot in the iron accepts a small bolt283724And the slot is narrower. Cap iron is shorter, as well. Thought about putting a "good" iron in it, won't fit. There is currently a nick in the iron's edge that I will have to remove283725but the sole is FLAT. Mouth is square, and crack free. 283726Doesn't do too badly of some of the harder woods in the shop. Even on Walnut283727As for the other "frog-less plane" in the shop283728A Windsor #33 scrub plane. Hungry little guy, too. Yep, that is a knot, and the plane didn't even bounce from it...

[Jim Koepke]

There is a history behind the Defiance name. This looks like one made by Stanley.

I had a #3 size model. It worked well for a plane made to be a less expensive alternate.

The ones made while Leonard Bailey was in charge are sought by collectors.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

Here is a link to information on Leonard Bailey:

http://web.mit.edu/invent/iow/bailey.html

jtk

[Lonnie Gallaher]

Well, I defy anyone to get my Defiance #3 to work consistently.

My neighbor gave it to me. It had a little surface rust, but other than that looked unused. (I know why) It cleaned up real well. The tote still has the Defiance logo on the side. I sharpened the iron and with very careful adjusting, I was able to get it to take a fine shaving. But, as soon as I tried to adjust the depth every thing was out of adjustment and it took a lot of careful adjusting to get it to cut again. I keep it on the shelf just above my users. I will not get rid of it because it was a gift from a good friend.

[steven c newman]

Like I said, there MIGHT have been two different "types" of these planes. Mine had nothing on the tote. Once set, it seems to do pretty good. Mine, the lateral is by a tap or two against the side of the iron.

What MIGHT be happening with yours? IF the adjuster wheel is sliding around on a rod ( like mine) a hard turn of the wheel will move the iron a bit to one side. That Lever cap screw does need to be TIGHT! Once set for depth, tighten the screw down.


BTW, send it to me, I'll send it back fettled up.....

[Jim Koepke]

Like I said, there MIGHT have been two different "types" of these planes. Mine had nothing on the tote.

Maybe even more. Mine had Defiance by Stanley on the tote.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Also seems that the lever caps changed a bit during the production run. Even saw one with a series of bars cast in it, another was just plain and maybe had a decal on it.

Iron is quite good on this one, until i hit a piece of Buck Shot buried in a knot, in a piece of bandsawn Walnut. Don't know wehere the other half of the shot went, only found half......

[David Weaver]

I'd limit time spent pondering defiance to research about the defiance name on the internet, unless you could manage to find pre-stanley stuff. Leave the planes in the shops they came from, even if they are $5-$10.

There are gobs of defiance planes around here in antique malls with various prices on them, and no sales - they stay in the shops for a reason. If you were poor-of-planes (we know that's not true) and needed a junker to make a jack, then they might be in a category as acceptable to pick one up in a pinch.

They are otherwise less worth than the space they take up on shelves and in drawers and a burden to have. Not because you can't make most of them do work, but because you don't have to and nobody else wants them.

[steven c newman]

Would you rather one of the "good planes' find someone's shotgun pellets, hidden in some wood, or run the Defiance over it? I did, and found a chunk hidden in a knot. That is why the Defiance has a nick in the edge, and NOT my M-F #9

Rough work, remove glue after a glue up, painted boards that need cleaned off. Just good old Yeoman work. Save the good stuff for when the wood is safe for them to travel..

IF and when I get tired of this lightweight wonder ( some block planes weigh more) it will just be a yard sale item. Might have a few items for the back table......

[David Weaver]

Shotgun pellets are lead - at least most of the time, especially in older wood. I've run "good" planes over staples. I'd rather have an appropriate weight plane and get the bottom scatched from time to time and actually use the the good planes rather than junk. I've had a glom of MF 9s, too, and wouldn't protect them from scratches - the most expensive was $20, and when I finally sold them, the replacement iron in one cost more than the other two.

Nicks in the edge get ground out without much thought - takes the same time on a good plane as it does on a junk one. Staple scratches can be filed or sanded, they're on the side of the plane that you don't see when they're in use. The planes stand no chance of real damage unless you drop them. Nicks and scratches are part of everyday use.

There are things that aren't worth your time, that's ultimately for you to decide, but it will strike you quickly when you realize you have piles of planes that nobody else wants, and the cost of shipping them out to a market that might is worth more than the planes are. Protecting a $10-$15 professional grade tool from a shotgun pellet is one of those things that you don't have to do - you could find another dozen MF 9s over the next 5 years. Cleaning off $10 planes to have clean $10 planes that have an hour or two of sweat equity also isn't worth it when there is a universe of other slightly harder to find planes out there that will be worth your time. Finding a $50 plane for $10 or $15, even though it doesn't offer immediate gratification due to the infrequency - that's probably more worth your time.

And if you ultimately dump some of these planes, you're doing a newbie a much bigger favor selling them a $50 stanley bailey than a $10 or $15 defiance.

People on this forum have given you advice to be helpful, they've been there and thrown the junk planes in the trash when they needed the room and nobody wanted the planes.

[george wilson]

And we're off again!:)

[David Weaver]

Here is, by the way, what a valuable defiance plane looks like.

http://www.jimbodetools.com/Perfect-BAILEY-TOOL-CO-Defiance-Smooth-Plane-with-Offset-Adjuster-p21616.html

my comments above can be regarded for the ones that don't look like this one.

But remember that there are a lot of eyes that have passed over defiance, corsair, great neck, handyman, you name it...planes in an antique shop, and they didn't pick up the planes for $10. or $8 or $5. There's a reason they didn't. If you don't know ahead of time that something IS worth your time, the fact that someone else picked through everything and left the junk behind is a pretty good indicator that it isn't. The only exception being when you're lucky enough to be the first set of eyes on some thing valuable (of course, you'll know it's something valuable and it's just luck that you're the first set of eyes).

[steven c newman]

Usually have that luck with handsaws284035cost me a whopping dollar bill down at the Lutheran Thrift store, and, I even walked to the store....

Otherwise, I really could not care less if a tool is "collectable", or whatever. Just want a few that will do the work I need them to do. While it would be nice to have that Defiance "Original", would anyone actually put it to work in their shop?

Thought not. My cheap Defiance is for rough stuff. It will get the dings, and dents. It spares what good planes i do have.

When the "tool budget" is in the last of the line up on payday.... other things take precedent. What little I can save and spend, is sometimes less that $20 a month. Have fun with them expensive tools, guys...

[george wilson]

Now,that saw WAS a good buy!!

[steven c newman]

Every now and then, I do get a decent item......:rolleyes:

[steven c newman]

Last few planes to be cleaned up? Ohio Tool Co. (of Auburn Ny)05c, a Sargent T4, #414c, a Dunlap#3, made by Millers falls, and a Dunlap #4, made by Stanley. A Cordovan 9-1/2 was found during a move, a little rusty, but free. Had a 9-1/2 branded as a Great Neck, but otherwise the same plane. Rust hunt last fall gave up a Stanley #103, with a SW iron, for $1.

Found a rusty Corsair #5, for $6. Cleaned up, and a nice 8" camber to the iron. It is now the go-to scrub jack in the shop. Best use it ever had, too.

A Wards Master Quality #3 showed up one day. Other than the name on on the lever cap, it is still a WWII era Stanley #3.

BTW: That 05c has a laminated iron....