George Ellis Dovetail Bevel

[Graham Haydon]

I made one :). It's nice and quick to make from scraps which is a double win in my book. George suggests a 1:7 one size fits all concept, I'm more than happy with that for now.



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[Mike Henderson]

Nice idea. The one problem I see with it is that when marking dovetails you need to put a square line across the end of the board. Certain other dovetail markers provide that function. With this one, you'd need another tool, perhaps a double square, to make that line.

Mike

[Graham Haydon]

Mike, you are of corse correct. Take it up with George let me know if you get a response :). I think part of the reason he chose to ommit the extra bit was he shows gang cut dovetails. For marking such work perhaps it would of made his marker too clumsy?

[Mike Henderson]

Mike, you are of course correct. Take it up with George let me know if you get a response :). I think part of the reason he chose to ommit the extra bit was he shows gang cut dovetails. For marking such work perhaps it would of made his marker too clumsy?
I'm afraid I don't know who George Ellis is. Perhaps it would be better if you take it up with him.

Mike

[Graham Haydon]

http://www.wkfinetools.com/wworking/z_reading/1908-ModPractJoinery/1908-ModPractJoinery.asp, unless I can raise the dead I'm gonna struggle :)

[Ken Benson]

Saw your video on youtube. Great job man.

[Chris Griggs]

Very nice Graham...thanks for sharing this.

[David Weaver]

http://www.wkfinetools.com/wworking/z_reading/1908-ModPractJoinery/1908-ModPractJoinery.asp, unless I can raise the dead I'm gonna struggle :)

I think they can only to do that in the united states in the south.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FJNZyhRfA4

[Graham Haydon]

Ken, thanks, still very much a WIP. I take my hat of to those who can anything of worth in front of the lens. Perhaps the Kardashians have some skills............

Cheers Chris!

David, that is the most welcome tangent I have had on this, thank you!

[Tony Zaffuto]

Nice idea. The one problem I see with it is that when marking dovetails you need to put a square line across the end of the board. Certain other dovetail markers provide that function. With this one, you'd need another tool, perhaps a double square, to make that line.

Mike

I used one of those for years Mike and it works if you take your time, but invariably I've found I'm usually off a few degrees. I've since migrated to a bevel gage and small square, with fit increasing significantly. The other thing that should go without mentioning, is to use knife lines when marking.

[Jim Matthews]

Looks like you've only got half...283748

[Pat Barry]

I used one of those for years Mike and it works if you take your time, but invariably I've found I'm usually off a few degrees. I've since migrated to a bevel gage and small square, with fit increasing significantly. The other thing that should go without mentioning, is to use knife lines when marking.
The wooden tool looks best suited for short run work since you really can't use a knife to mark effectively using a wooden gage. That will lead to inaccuracies very quickly as the inevitable catching of the gage itself with the knife results in deterioration.

[Mike Henderson]

The wooden tool looks best suited for short run work since you really can't use a knife to mark effectively using a wooden gage. That will lead to inaccuracies very quickly as the inevitable catching of the gage itself with the knife results in deterioration.
When I do dovetails, I do tails first and mark the tails with a pencil. The cutting of the tails is not critical because you're going to transfer the tail to the pin board, and there I use a knife for marking. The marking of the tails is all "square" lines so I use a double square to mark those lines. So for my work, a knife is never used on the dovetail jig.

Mike

[Graham Haydon]

Jim, it seems thats it's older more evolved bro. Paul Sellers style?

[Mike Henderson]

Looks like you've only got half...283748
Good design, Jim. Addresses the angle on the tail and the square line across the end of the board.

Mike

[Jim Matthews]

Not mine.

That one has been around awhile.
I can't keep something like this in my shop.

My dog steals everything I drop.

I use the Veritas guide for marking out...
http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=41718&cat=1,42884

Once I learned to saw straight, I didn't need the guide.
It makes a ready to use marking gauge.

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[Zach Dillinger]

Ahh, George Ellis. My second favorite woodworking writer. Nice work Graham!

[Robert G Brown]

I am glad I saw this thread. I have trouble making my marks near the edge because my dovetail marker is mostly off the piece. This one would allow me to flip the marker. Reading what Mike said about needing a second marker got me to thinking and then playing in the shop. This is the result. The inside was not meant to be that wide. It took me 3 tries to get it perpendicular.
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[Mike Henderson]

I am glad I saw this thread. I have trouble making my marks near the edge because my dovetail marker is mostly off the piece. This one would allow me to flip the marker. Reading what Mike said about needing a second marker got me to thinking and then playing in the shop. This is the result. The inside was not meant to be that wide. It took me 3 tries to get it perpendicular.
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Nice compact design. Congratulations!

Mike

[Graham Haydon]

Ahh, George Ellis. My second favorite woodworking writer. Nice work Graham!

Yeah, really enjoy his work. His book on stair building is an eye popper! One thing I wish I could fully understand is complex handrailing!

[Graham Haydon]

Nice job Robert!

[lowell holmes]

I have Paul Sellers' and Rob Cosman's dovetail markers. I made both of them out of a scrap of cherry.

I prefer Cosman's marker. They both work fine. I have 1 to 6 and 1 to 8 slopes made. I use the 1 to 8 mostly.

[Tony Zaffuto]

All this stuff about markers, jigs, slopes, brass, cherry, using saws, using knives, cutting to a baseline, not cutting to a baseline has me baffled. Think I'll find me a good old Porter Cable Omnijig!







Crap, I forgot, I think I have one in storage somewhere!

[David Weaver]

Hey, Tony, I saw reading elsewhere that you're pilfering my favorite fayetteville antique shop!!

That's one of the last two places I can just walk in and get tools substantially "below ebay prices". the other being the black rose in hanover, pa, but it's hit or miss if the guy who drops stuff off there has done anything in a while, and the booth size is about a tenth the spread that the guy at fayetteville has.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Hey, Tony, I saw reading elsewhere that you're pilfering my favorite fayetteville antique shop!!

That's one of the last two places I can just walk in and get tools substantially "below ebay prices". the other being the black rose in hanover, pa, but it's hit or miss if the guy who drops stuff off there has done anything in a while, and the booth size is about a tenth the spread that the guy at fayetteville has.

I got a really nice middle size #18 Stanley bevel. Looks like new - $18 ($20 less 10% for cash). Across the street, got a set of 4 Greenlee chisels for $16.00. These are marked made in Sheffield and look for all purposes, like the old blue handled Records, except these are green and marked Greenlee. 3 look like they've never been used and the 3/4" had whoever owned it, tried to sharpen it, bunged up the back on top of the bevel and tried to flatten it on a disc sander. Took about an hour or so, but it now looks like it should. Took a beautiful edge and has kept it so far in some cherry.

The guy with the "big" space must have had 50 to 75 saws in his pile, all marked $3 to $5, but I didn't have the time to search through (wife & daughter #3 were with me). Did look like a #12 handle or two in the pile! He also had an Emmert woodworker's vise for $35.00 (this is the one that looks like the old Records). Was all there, but pretty bunged up.

Fayetteville has been my "honey hole" for damn near a decade! Never had much luck over at Black Rose. I did leave some goodies, other than the Emmert, but I'm going to see who is able to find them, as I'm passing through that way again in two weeks!

Anybody who says there are no old tools out there to be had, sure isn't looking very hard!

[David Weaver]

I rifled through the big saw pile and at a time when I didn't really need any saws, didn't really see any in it that I needed. It would be, however, a great pile to dig out some saws to take home for scraper stock, to excavate saw nuts from etc. At the time, I also didn't know how to hammer saws straight, or at least didn't have a lot of confidence in it, but that's not the case now.

I can almost always go through the chisel pile and get something good for half of the going rate or less, and if I can't find a chisel, I can find something else that made the stop worthwhile. The guy's a good fellow, his card has his phone number on it, and he doesn't do internet stuff, which preserves his niche in the market. I didn't find anything in the expanse of other spaces last time I was there, but I'm usually with my wife and kids, so the best I can hope for is that daughter finds something that interests her there and needs a BR break.

The black rose has one specific booth that a guy like the fellow at fayetteville stocks, but he's a bit more particular. Among other things, i've dug a Type 1 millers falls 9C out of his booth for $12, a fresh barely used stanley 6 for $15, stanley 97/98 marking gauges types for about $10 each, in good shape, and two times ago, there were four jointer planes in there for $20 each. Three good-shape stanley 7s and a clean edwin hahn 7 sized jointer (that I should've taken). I caught the guy stocking his booth one time and he said that he sells a lot to dealers, and I went back the next day to get the hahn plane, and literally everything was gone - a dealer must've taken it all.

[Tony Zaffuto]

If you catch the guy there, he readily deals prices down! Through the years, I've gotten more than a couple of really good saws out of that pile (and it looks like he just added a slew to it). From his pile of chisels, I got an unused Stanley 750, in 5/8" width a number of years ago for $4.00! The building directly across the street has a decent dealer also. He is usually there on Sundays and again readily drops prices. About a year ago, I got a NOS Record 52E (IIRC - w/quickly release), with the torn/tattered box for $60.00. This past weekend he had a not all together there patternmaker's vise for $270.00 (the guy across the street had the other Emmert). For those that don't know, Emmerts were made about 7 or 8 miles from this antique mall.

Let's see, I also got a like new Stanley 199 utility knife, loaded with blades for $4, a Littleton small anvil for $15 (Littleton foundry was about 25 miles away, and if you watch, you can pick up quality machinists vises in antique stores in that locale). A like new MF plumb bob (have half dozen just like it, but can never have too many plumb bobs - collection totals well over 300 if not 400!).

[David Weaver]

I actually worked in a cabinet factory that was next door to the littlestown foundry (summers between college). They weren't making vises by that time, though. I didn't love working in the cabinet factory, but the way the foundry guys came out of the building, it looked like I made out pretty well. There was a lighting factory and a pool on the other side of the building. the cabinet factory closed several years ago, unfortunately. It was a big operation, but when the market for liar loans went away, so did the ability of the average person to keep redoing their kitchens over and over (or buy houses that were 20x their annual income). It looks like a junk food factory has moved in there.

I've caught the guy at the place on the eastbound side of 30 and gotten the "in person" discount. I don't know if I can get the mrs. and the kids to stick around long enough to go in the other side. Maybe in future years.

Waynesboro (where the emmerts were made) was in our athletic league, and on and off so was chambersburg - just up the road from fayetteville, of course.