Need advice on new tool(s) purchase: 8 to 12 jointer and/or drum sander

[Chris Merriam]

Hey guys, in a circular debate with myself and could use some fresh input. I've got about $3k to spend on some new tools and can't decide what to get. Until recently I've been outfitted with all the usual starter stuff: 6in jointer, 14in bandsaw, lunchbox planer, and a hybrid table saw. I just got rid of the bandsaw and replaced it with an MM16, so now I've turned my attention to my jointer since it's the next biggest thing in the shop that bugs me.

Initially I thought I would skip the whole 6-8-12+ progression and just get a Grizzly 12in jointer with spiral head (G06069X), which will run me right about the full $3k.

But then I started looking in to drum sanders, and wouldn't it be cool to have one, so then I'm thinking I could get the Grizzly 8in spiral jointer (G0409x), and the Performax 19-38 with a couple upgrades, both for a total of $3k.

And that's where I'm stuck! I'm afraid the first time I buy a board over 8 inches I'm going to regret the smaller jointer, though it's pretty rare for me to buy lumber over 10 inches (mostly because I've never looked for it before). And then the drum sander, now that I have a nice bandsaw I can start cutting up my own veneer and would have that available for sanding, plus I'd like to use it for evening up drawers and general stock cleanup.

I'm not interested in old iron at this point, I know good deals are out there, but I feel better knowing there's spare parts and active tech support just a phone call away.

And finally, I'm putting serious thought in to picking up a #7 jointer plane, so I suppose I could always use that to flatten boards over 8" if I went with the smaller jointer.

So you can see I have some conflicting thoughts. I'm interested to hear what others might do in a similar situation.

[Wade Lippman]

For me it would be a simple matter. I "need" a 12" jointer a couple times a year, but use my Supermax 19-38 all the time.
Your needs might not be the same as mine.

[johnny means]

I love my wide jointer, it's great too have the extra capacity on that rare occasion I need 12 to 20 inches, but, a wide format sander would do a whole lot more for my productivity on every single job.

[Rich Riddle]

I went through the progression you discussed and now have a used MiniMax FS35 14" jointer/planer with Shelix head and a Jet 16/32 drum sander. There is no doubt that the jointer/planer far exceeds the drum sander as far as quality goes. If you drive an hour north you can see them in person. My vote would be get a good sized jointer/planer with the segmented head and then worry about a drum sander later. My preference goes toward the used European jointer/planer and adding the segmented head, but Grizzly does put out a good product. I have less than 3K in the MiniMax and Jet tools combined, including he Shelix head.

283611

[Myk Rian]

It isn't hard to joint a 10" or 12" board on an 8" jointer.

[Chris Merriam]

Thanks for input, so I see a couple votes for the drum sander. Rich, I have a great appreciation for the Euro stuff. I've been keeping a close eye on all the Hammer A3-31/41 posts in particular. Space is not a concern for me, so I was stuck with the debate on separates (buy two spiral heads) vs one combo unit (cheaper in the end with just one spiral or tersa head). The only thing that concerns me with the combos is table length and of course change over time. I've read plenty of posts saying changeover time is just a minute or so and not a big deal, but knowing I have the space available it's tough to let that one go. I didn't mention it because funds wouldn't be available, but the lunchbox planer will be the next thing to go.

[Chris Merriam]

Wade, having never used a drum sander it's hard to appreciate its worth. But based on what I've read I could quickly see it becoming a part of the final milling process, and my drawers, face frames, and panels never come out perfectly flush so it would be great to use it in those cases.

[Loren Woirhaye]

Wide belt.

[Jim Andrew]

I kind of picked up my machines one at a time. I have a G0609 jointer with a Byrd head, and a small widebelt sander, skipped the drum sanders. The guys on Sawmill Creek recommend buying the machines you really want, as moving up costs a LOT. Your used machine is worth half of new, and the new machines get higher priced every year. So, best to skip step-up machines. Both the 8" jointer and the 16-32 sander are step up machines.

[William C Rogers]

I like both my wide jointer and my drum sander. However I would trade size of my jointer to keep my Supermax 19-38. I use my drum sander all the time of tweak the dimensions of my stock and it makes it so much easier to use nice flat stock anytime.

Bill

[Robert Chapman]

This is easy - get an 8 inch jointer with a Byrd head and a 16/32 drum sander. You will rarely need more that a 8" jointer and the sander will go up to 32 inches if it is carefully set up. Don't let the smooth surface that you get with a Byrd head in the jointer make you think that you don't need the sander - you do.

[Chris Merriam]

Thanks for the replies everyone, always good to hear other's opinions. I'm still kind of torn: clearly everyone who has a drum sander (or widebelt) loves it and doesn't want to give it up. But I'm also strongly in the camp of buying the best machine for the long term. That leans me towards the big jointer, and maybe in four months or so I can save up enough for the drum sander. I'll continue to ponder. Rich even has me thinking about combo units again. Even at Grizzly prices for spiral jointer and spiral planer, it's cheaper to get a Euro combo.

[Loren Woirhaye]

I do not mean to be glib. You should try out a drum sander in somebody else's shop to see if can use the thing without nodding off in boredom. They have their uses for sure, especially for luthiers. But for making furniture and casework I just cannot get behind the idea that a drum sander saves much time and they can wreck carefully surfaced boards more easily than you might think - if the sander hangs up for even a little bit it will carve a full-width divot in the work and they can certainly snipe. A stroke sander saves time. A wide belt saves time and sweat in a big way.

Btw - I do not "love" my drum sanders. I kind of dislike them. They are a pain to fuss with and they are slow. A wide belt is a different creature entirely.

In terms of jointing wider boards you have a point in wanting a bigger jointer but do keep in mind that unless you're willing to routinely plane away a lot of useful thickness, slapping wide, long boards on a jointer to make a giant reference surface is often folly. I skip plane rough lumber, mark out parts with a crayon, crosscut and rip out parts on the band saw, then to the jointer and then the planer. In the cases where I need to surface a reference face wider than my jointer, I break out the bench planes. It's really not a big deal to flatten boards with hand planes and I even use an electric door planer sometimes to hog off cup and twist. The reference face doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to be consistent enough to resist distortion from the planer caused by the rollers pushing the reference face down against the planer bed.

If you get hardwood real cheap or have an economic situation that makes turning useful wood into shavings a non-concern, then your situation is different from mine. I want to get as much usable thickness and potential from furniture grade hardwoods as I can and that often involves a combination of jointer and bench planes to get what I want.

$3k will get you close to a 15" open end single phase wide belt. Not a brute of a production machine for sure, but a lot more machine than a drum sander.

Sanding has been a big bottleneck in my woodworking for a long time. I've got a small wide belt and a stroke sander now and between the two I have the confidence to sand a lot of things in less than half the time it would have required with a drum sander or handheld sanders, and I'm being real conservative in that estimate. If I were going to suggest a drum sander, I'd say go with one with a 5hp motor and 2 drums.

[eugene thomas]

If ya can get the bigger jointer now and in 4 months or so the drum sander.... Mean why the big deal. Now the jointer or combo battle.

[Nathan Callender]

As much as I love my combo machine, if I truly had the space to have a separate jointer and planer, I would. The cutover isn't a pain, 30 seconds, but the problem is that you loose the planer height settings each time. Not a huge problem and I could make it easier with a digital gauge, but it is a compromise.

That being said, I don't have a need for a drum sander at all. If its a production environment, get a wide belt. But if its just a hobby shop doing normal sized work I'd rather spend the cash on other/better tools.

I guess a drum sander is one of those tools that you'll know you need when you need it. I'd just wait until then to get one.

[Jim Foster]

One thing to consider, a drum sander is a sander, not a material removal tool like a planer or jointer. Taking a rough board more than 8" wide to thickness or flat as you would do on a jointer or planer is not what a drum sander is meant to do.

My drum sander comes in very handy for working glued up panels and cleaning up planer and jointer marks, but little else. For me it's time consuming to use, but I'm not trying to make money. I usually use 80 grit paper on it, occasionally 120 and it will get wide boards so flat they stick together when stacked. My planer will not do that, mostly due to vibrations from the floor (second story loft). Also I tend to use it when I have a number of pieces, if I only have one or two pieces, I'll use hand tools. My shops a little filled up with the 22-44 drum sander, 8" jointer and 13" planer. If I had my druthers, I would trade those three pieces of equipment for a 16" combo machine, but until I get more proficient finishing large surfaces with a hand plane, I'd miss the sander.

To give an example of how I use my drum sander, I lay a board underneath the drum, lower the drum to a point where I can still push and pull the board back and forth under the drum with relative ease, then remove the board, start the sander, and run the board through 2-3 times, lower the drum a "little" do it again. Anything more than this and I'll pop a fuse or potentially damage the machine This should give an example of the difference between sanding with this tool and material removal with planers and jointers.

Notice; you may know all this, but I did not, and learned after the fact with help from the "Creek."

[Chris Merriam]

I've read numerous posts of the benefits of widebelts vs drum sanders, I guess it's hard to appreciate the differences without having used either. The thing that appeals to me about the open ended drum sanders is that extra wide capacity for flattening wide glue ups. I know it won't be as accurate as a wide-widebelt, but it would be a lot cheaper if sanding a 30+ inch panel.

[Dave Cav]

If you are doing hobby work and don't mind messing around with your equipment, a drum sander might work for you. I had a Woodmaster and after using it for a couple of months I couldn't wait to get rid of it. I eventually sold it and got a 37" Safety Speed Cut widebelt. As a couple of others have mentioned, there is NO comparison. The drum sanders are slow, fussy, and I was never satisfied with the final quality of the finish. With my widebelt I go through the grits very quickly and then (sometimes) some quick sanding with the ROS and I'm done. If I need to flatten a 30 inch tabletop, I put in a 36 or 40 grit belt and have it flattened down pretty quickly.

As for the jointer, go as wide as you can. I have an 8" Grizzly with a Grizzly carbide head. It works great, and I love it, but I'm on the lookout for a 12" to replace it.

[Rod Sheridan]

I went from an 8" General to a 12" Hammer A3-31 which gave me a jointer/planer in one machine.

I sold my General jointer and planer, which more than paid for the Hammer, and I now have a more useful machine with some space savings.

If I were you, I would evalute a Hammer or MiniMax combination machine............Rod.

[Chris Merriam]

You guys are killing me! I was able to forget about combo units a few weeks ago, now you have me seriously considering them again! Rod, other than gaining 4 inches for jointing, why are you so much in favor of the combo? I would have thought having separates already you wouldn't enjoy the changeover time.

[Frank Drew]

It isn't hard to joint a 10" or 12" board on an 8" jointer.

Very true, and on up (15-16"+ on a 12" machine, etc.).

I've worked with wide belt sanders but never had one in my own shop mostly because it wouldn't have gotten enough run time to justify the cost and space considerations. Even though just about any size decent jointer is better than no jointer, I wouldn't have wanted a smaller one than my 12".

[Cary Falk]

I have an 8" jointer. I bought a used Grizzly 18/36 drum sander on Craig's list. I use it 100X more than I thought I would.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Chris, one of the great things about the combo was that I went from standard knives that required sharpening and setting with measuring instruments, to cartridge knives that last longer and take 5 minutes in total to change with no adjustment required.

I also like having removable extension tables and the digital height gauge for the planer.

As another benefit you can add the slot mortiser............Rod.

[Loren Woirhaye]

Combos are alright and a good way to stretch your dollars if you want a fancy cutterhead. They certainly save space and in the greater scheme of things the time spent changing over is not that big a deal. When I used a 12" J/P combo I had a portable planer too which I would use in a pinch to avoid switching over, using the combo planer for the heavier work it was most capable at.