Cordless pin nailers ?

[Kelly Colin Mark]

I want to buy a 23ga nailer, but my space is really small and I don't think I can accomodate a compressor,even the very smallest ones.

The only cordless unit I can find is the Makita LXT, but its quite expensive (in Canada, close to $500 including charger), and I'm already invested in at least two other cordless systems (Milwaukee and Festool).

Are there any other options out there to consider ?

I'm a very light duty hobbyist.

[Peter Quinn]

I would argue that if you can't fit a compressor small enough to push pin nailer then you can't fit much wood working in either. They make them really small now, and fairly quiet versus the screamer I have for a pancake. Look at the new rohlair mini hot dog style units, almost micro. Or pay through the nose for cordless, none are ever cheap by comparison.

[Kelly Colin Mark]

I would argue that if you can't fit a compressor small enough to push pin nailer then you can't fit much wood working in either.
And you would be correct. I don't have the space for much woodworking. Everything is a dance. And that's without my 20" Inca bandsaw which is still sitting in the trunk of my car until I figure out what to do with it !

If I can't get a cordless unit, I am now looking at buying a small compressor and then maybe buying a Grex P650L or whatever my local tool store recommends. It would still work out to be less than the Makita.

[Peter Quinn]

They are really making some very compact trim sized air compressors, and with air you can place the compressor outside the space and run the hose in to save on space, then stow it later. The cordless nailers are heavier, slower and more expensive in every way than air powered equivalents. Grex is a fine pin nailer, you can get decent performance even cheaper in something like a hitachi. I like the cordless stuff when your on a job site with no power, or just have to shoot a few nails, or need to bang in a very small amount of trim, say on a second floor, and don't want to drag even a small compressor to the location. I've used other peoples at work but have never considered actually buying one due to cost.

[Tony Haukap]

Here's a portable alternative to using a compressor...http://www.powertank.com/products/sfID1/34/productID/223with it you can make *any* air tool portable.Although, if you have the space outside, as someone else suggestioned above, I would get a full-sized compressor, bolt it down to a concrete pad outside under the overhang and build a closet around it - with this king of a setup you'll have real air pressure to run anything you may want in the future. and I should tell you; air tools are addictive! A few nailers, then a couple of impacts, maybe a ratchet or two, a paint gun, then shears, grinders, etc. etc. Once you got air there's no limit! :)

[Nathan Callender]

Get a small compressor if you really want to use a pin nailer. You can mount them to a wall or even ceiling if you really don't have any room. Look at the small rolair. It is seriously quiet.

[Jamie Buxton]

I've got a Senco PC1010 compressor. It almost looks like a toy -- it is 14" long. It has plenty of power for trim work. I run a pin nailer with it, a brad nailer, and a finish nailer.
It is quiet too. http://www.amazon.com/Senco-PC1010-1-Horsepower-1-Gallon-Compressor/dp/B0000AQK78

[Kelly Colin Mark]

Thanks everyone. I ended up buying the smallest Grex (P630) and the Rolair JC-10. I liked the Senco but the footprint wasn't really so much smaller and everything I read indicated that there would be less waiting with the Rolair, and my guy at the store said the Rolair would be a little more versatile down the road.

I haven't used them yet - I'm vacillating as to whether I ought to step up to the model (P650) that allows you to run a bunch of different length nails. The P630 can only handle 1-3/16" nails, whereas the P650 can use from 3/8 to 2" nails.

At first, I'm hoping to speed cabinet assembly by pinning my parts before screwing them together. I am naive as to what other uses there might be for 23ga nails. Should I spend the extra $ to get the more versatile nailer ? Price difference is about twice ($300 for 650 vs 150 for the P630), but only $150. Are there useful applications for skinny, longer nails ?

[Peter Quinn]

The 2" pins would be useful occasionally for toenailing small exterior trim pieces and certain kinds of glass stop, but honestly I find little regular use personally for a headless pin of that length. Doesn't matter how far in you go when there is no head, you are only getting so much hold. And I worry even with 18ga that long that they can follow the grain and take a turn back out of the stock unexpectedly. Much beyond 1 1/4" I'm moving to a bigger fastener anyway.

[Greg R Bradley]

There would be no "waiting" with the Senco PC1010 and a Grex Pinner but it may be a factor with bigger guns. The most common Grex is the P635, which does 1 3/8". At that length there is a big problem with the fastener following grain and going in a completely different direction than you planned. 2" has very limited use. I would suggest you stick with what you have and put the $150 toward an 18 guage, where 2" length is not quite as extreme.

[Rich Engelhardt]

I ended up buying the smallest Grex (P630) and the Rolair JC-10. I liked the Senco but the footprint wasn't really so much smaller and everything I read indicated that there would be less waiting with the Rolair, and my guy at the store said the Rolair would be a little more versatile down the road.
Sweet...
The JC-10 is a 1 hp class compressor. You should be able to run any nailer except a framing nailer and/or a palm nailer.


I am naive as to what other uses there might be for 23ga nails.Not to worry. In a month or two, you'll wonder how you ever got a long w/out it.

Personally, I don't go over 1" with a 23 ga. because it can follow the grain too easily.
For much the same reason, I usually limit my 18 ga to 1.25".
For 2" and 2.5", I go with either my 16 ga or 15 ga.

For pure holding power - for things like cabinet backs & carpeting on stair treads...... you can't beat an 18 ga, 1.25" narrow crown staple.
A lot of the cheaper (think Harbor Freight) 18 ga brad nailers shoot both brads and staples.

[Kelly Colin Mark]

The most common Grex is the P635, which does 1 3/8". At that length there is a big problem with the fastener following grain and going in a completely different direction than you planned.


|
Personally, I don't go over 1" with a 23 ga. because it can follow the grain too easily.
For much the same reason, I usually limit my 18 ga to 1.25".

Greg and Rich, both of you suggest that the only nail length for the P635 (1-3/16") is usually too long for 23ga - you both cite the possibility of the small nail following the grain. edit: Greg's comment was for the P630 (1-3/8", but that's only 3/16" longer)

This has me confused a bit. Should I step up to the P650 which can shoot nails in a range of lengths, as short as 3/8" ? What length nail would be appropriate for holding together 3/4" ply for glue up or driving screws ?

[Greg R Bradley]

The P6xx series guns all shoot pins from 3/8" up to the max length for that gun.

23ga pinners were originally created for pins up to 1", thinking that was the maximum that anyone would have a use for in that fine a pin. Then a few companies offered guns and pins that were a bit longer since the consumer thinks bigger must be better.

What we both were saying is that no matter which gun you have, you probably won't find much need for pins longer than 1". I suppose that depends on your needs. Great for holding a small piece of trim while the glue dries but there is little strength in a 23ga pin.

What is your thought process on cabinets? I'm wondering if they will work for your need.

[johnny means]

I find 1 1/4 pins to be my most used length. My pin nailer has all but replaced my brad nailer for trim and assembly. IMO, brads which are flat and wide tend to follow the grain much more often than micro pins. Plus, on the occasion that they do blow out, you get a lot less damage.

[Sandra Mart]

I've got a Senco PC1010 compressor. It almost looks like a toy -- it is 14" long. It has plenty of power for trim work. I run a pin nailer with it, a brad nailer, and a finish nailer.
It is quiet too. http://www.amazon.com/Senco-PC1010-1-Horsepower-1-Gallon-Compressor/dp/B0000AQK78

$107.99 today 28% off..http://watchfree.me/11/w.png

[Kelly Colin Mark]

The P6xx series guns all shoot pins from 3/8" up to the max length for that gun.

What is your thought process on cabinets? I'm wondering if they will work for your need.
Greg - thanks for the clarification. I misread my dealer's website - I thought only the P650 and P650L handled a range of nail lengths, and that my gun ONLY used 1-3/16" nails. Now that I know my gun will handle the useful range of lengths for this gauge, I'm feeling good that this is the right choice. Thanks !

As for my thought process - I'm completely a hack but I understood one could use these nails to hold cabinet pieces together while they are either being screwed or glued up, and that the smaller gauge would leave less of a hole. I have a tiny, tiny space so if I ever have to clamp anything up, I'm out of space - not to mention I can barely swing a 48" clamp in my space in the first place. So my hope was that a nailer could help eliminate some of the need for clamping.

In some videos I saw, that process also seemed really easy - I could square up the each corner by feel, shoot a nail in that corner, and have some confidence it would remain square until I could drive some screws. Most recently, I've been playing with pocket hole screws, but I find the act of joining two pieces has a tendency to move those same pieces.

The other application I have in mind is to hold solid edge banding in place until glue dries.

Am I off base in what I think these guns can do ?

thanks !

[Rich Engelhardt]

Kelly - you're probably going to just have to find out by trial and error what the pin nailer won't do.
Even that can get "iffy".

I used mine w/ 1" pins to attach some shoe molding once. It worked great.
Next time around, it wouldn't hold worth a darn & I had to go up a step to an 18 ga.

Despite that - I still believe you'll find a ton of uses. I know I have with all my nailers.
Heck even the roofing nailer I bought! I had no idea that could be used to attach weather seal to the bottom of a garage door until I saw it being done!

[Kelly Colin Mark]

Thanks everyone for your replies.

I managed to play with the nailer and compressor a bit on the weekend. First impressions:
- the Rolair felt a lot heavier when I got it home than it did in the store when I did a side-by-side with the Senco. It also sounded a lot louder than I remember.
- it was stunning how quiet it was driving the nails (when the compressor wasn't on). My only prior experience with nailers was with a fuel-powered Paslode (IIRC) and it was way louder. Nails were nearly invisible, but one nail did go completely off course. Initially I thought I must have aimed wrong but now wonder whether the nail was just following the path of least resistance. Will nails go off course with plywood, or should ply be more homogenous and less likely to steer nails off course ?
- I did some 90degree butt joints in ply. They wobbled a bit but I'm not sure if my pieces were exactly square so that could explain it - they were just the scraps I found nearby. The pieces weren't easy to pull apart by hand.

- the nail gun was really fun to use.

Next question - are nail guns basically the same, or are there compelling reasons to pay more for premium tools ? I can see there could be some usability and ergonomic issues, but I could buy a trio of Husky air tools (two nailers and a stapler) at my HD for less than $100 bucks. None is a pin nailer so I would keep the Grex, but if I decided to buy something that could handle bigger nails, it'd be nice to know what I'm giving up and if I'd miss anything.

thanks everyone ! I spent 15 minutes today at HD staring at the wall of air tools and wondering what they would be used for ;-)

[John M Wilson]

Next question - are nail guns basically the same, or are there compelling reasons to pay more for premium tools ? I can see there could be some usability and ergonomic issues, but I could buy a trio of Husky air tools (two nailers and a stapler) at my HD for less than $100 bucks.

My advice, for what its worth:

Nailing is fun, but right now you have a solution in search of a problem (you have no pressing need for another air tool, but they look like fun, so...)

Since you are not on a deadline, time is your friend. Don't get in a hurry -- these things go on sale all the time.

Do a little research, surf the web, etc. Figure out which tool you need, not which tool you want, as there is a fair amount of overlap among the various gauges & sizes.

I have had good luck with Hitachi (the NT65MA4 15 gauge finish nailer, and the NT50AE2 18 gauge brad nailer). With a 15 gauge and and 18 gauge, I don't need a 16 gauge. But other folks will find that the 16 gauge is the sweet spot for them...

Start with the fastener that is best to do the job that you're doing, and work backwards from there. Otherwise you may find that you spent money on a tool that is not quite what you need, and then you either compromise, or buy twice. DAMHIKT

Good Luck!

[Rich Engelhardt]

Next question - are nail guns basically the same, or are there compelling reasons to pay more for premium toolsW/air nailers, you pay more for things you don't see.
The cheaper ones will usually leave a pronounced oval shaped "divot" in the wood from the hammer. Better ones lessen the chances of that.
Also, better name brands - Bostitch, Porter Cable, Senco, etc. will have parts available to rebuild them when they need it.
With the cheaper one, like the Husky, Harbor Freight, etc. - when they need seals or something you just toss them.